22 hornet, 25-20, 256, 32-20

[bigted]

contemplating a small game round in a single shot say encore base ... maybe a barrel stub settup ... that can be made to shoot very accurately. i like the small capacity cases and small caliber of the stated shells. i want to fool round with some very quiet cast loads, some very heavy for caliber loads both jacketed and cast, and i want to mess with a silenced settup at the same time.

so of these cases ... i would like to pick the brain of any who has an opinion on which would meet my needs and why. loads for your choice. rifle style and why. distance you shoot them at and your accuracy.

the accuracy desire is going to trump all else but i believe i can have all i desire in one sweet package.

[bigted]

an added thought is that i would very much like to keep this thread on the topic of those cartridges mentioned. they are my choices to choose from and they are the cartridges i would like the opinions on.

thankyou all very much

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Sweet Home, ehh? I live over in Brownsville. I'm a bit at a loss as to what you are trying to do here. What do you mean by
"barrel stub" set up? A very short barrel? A threaded barrel for a silencer? Have you maybe considered a single shot T/C rifle and
some custom barrels?

[Bullshop]

You are familiar with the whisper cartridges right? 300 whisper (AKA 300 BO) and 500 whisper. Both designed and intended to shoot heavy for caliber sub sonic and silenced rounds for military use, silent sentry removal. Both designed to be capable of penetrating light armor.

[shooterbob]

All three are great rounds with my preference being the 256 and 22 hornet. The hornet is mch quieter than the 256 and components are much easier to acquire. The 256 win is obsolete and you have to form brass from 357. Easy enough to do but form dies are pricey. 25-20 brass is more expensive than hornet as well as the 32-20. A barrel stub setup for the contender or encore is great for being able to have a threaded barrel but really not necessary since barrels can be changed out anyway. The stub setup looks intriguing though but I don't really see a practical use.

[country gent]

I would seriously lean towards the 256 as the brass is stronger than the others. 32-20 is inteeresting and molds would be more available that 25 calibers. The barrel stub set up is a good way to go and should work well. 120 grn bulltet in the 256 should be just sub sonic and work good.

[williamwaco]

I vote for .22 Hornet or .25-20

Depending on your range requirements.

I would call the .25-20 a good 100 yard solution and the .22 hornet good for 150 yd.

If you are going to eat what you shoot, go with the .25-20.

[35remington]

Given we are talking about CAST bullets, the 256 must get a "not recommended." The short neck is a severe handicap with all but very short bullets. With the common 85-90 grain bullets some amount of the bullet base will be below the neck in a typically throated rifle. The extra capacity is not needed for velocities that actually do well with lead bullets. In other words, it will drive a cast bullet faster than it will shoot well. The other three have more appropriate case capacities for cast bullets. If it was jacketed only, I'd say have at it. Since you didn't specify that........no 256.

That leaves the other three as better choices. Cases are much more available. I've not had much trouble getting cases for all of them.....before the recent panic, that is. Then every case in every caliber becomes hard to get.

The 25-20 and 32-20 have advantages over the .22 Hornet at subsonic velocities, as a subsonic solid 22 bullet doesn't kill particularly well. I find the 25-20 does quite well at subsonic speeds on small game and up to feral cat/raccoon size critters as long as the bullet has any reasonable meplat and prefer it over my K Hornet for subsonic cast (my K Hornet still has reasonable neck length). The 32-20 does as well if not better. At high cast velocities both kill quite well on critters they are suited for, and there is considerable overlap in application between the two at higher speeds reasonable for cast bullets despite something less than a 0.06" difference in bullet diameter.

If a slight edge in subsonic killing power is wanted go 32-20. If a miserly approach to bullet metal expenditure is wanted with a bullet that has reasonable streamlining and killing power at low speed go 25-20. If you're going to punch holes in paper way more than shoot game at low velocities, get the Hornet. A heavy for caliber 22 bullet is kinda an oxymoron, as the heaviest 22 bullets don't even equal the weight of a standard 25-20 bullet, much less a 32-20 bullet.

There are a great plenty of 25 caliber moulds available so that is not an issue. I've accumulated over 8 different designs over a relatively short period and I wasn't even trying very hard. NOE just made a run of suitable 25-20 moulds and a number of designs are offered by Lyman, RCBS, NEI, Accurate, and NOE.

Keep in mind a twist sufficient for a very long slow bullet might be faster than you want for best cast bullet accuracy at higher speeds.

[M-Tecs]

Sweet Home, ehh? I live over in Brownsville. I'm a bit at a loss as to what you are trying to do here. What do you mean by
"barrel stub" set up? A very short barrel? A threaded barrel for a silencer? Have you maybe considered a single shot T/C rifle and
some custom barrels?

Barrel stubs
http://www.eagleviewarms.com/?page_id=191
http://www.eagleviewarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Making-TC-Contender-Stub-barrels-Manual.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCzZgt67dyg

You can purchase them premade or cut off and thread used barrels.

http://www.huntingnut.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4579
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?153778-Barrel-stubbed-rifles
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?71445-thompson-contender-barrels

[40-82]

I only have experience with the 25-20 and the 32-20 in rifles. Both make excellent close range subsonic small game cartridges for close range. Most of what I know about loading them comes from 35 Remington's threads on the subject, which are well worth looking up. With full power cast bullets in a pinch, the temptation is to try more with those little cartridges than you really ought to. People have killed deer with both, but I think squirrels are more suited to those cartridges realistic capabilities. With the 22 Hornet, I only have experience with the cartridge with jacketed bullets at full velocity in an old Model 70 Winchester. Because of the expense of jacketed bullets I don't shoot it much. I only carry it sometimes in turkey season. For some reason I've kept track of the number of turkeys I've killed with it, and as of last year, I'm up to 23. The hornet is a good killer on turkey sized game with minimal meat loss, but even with jacketed bullets I find it touchy to load for. I feel like if I pick a random powder charge and bullet out of a loading manual I'm much more likely to come up with a usable load with either the 25-20 or the 32-20 than the hornet. I have zero experience with the .256.

[Wayne Smith]

For what you are talking about I would agree either the 25-20 or the 32-20, depending on what you want to shoot. Both are on the same lightweight rimmed case, so the advantages and disadvantages of those apply equally. Brass is readily available for the 32-20, I don't know when Starline last ran 25-20. 25-20 is the 32-20 necked down.

Since you are talking about a custom you get to choose your barrel twist. Pay attention to this, the boolits you can shoot accurately will be determined by this factor more than any other.

[1Shirt]

Hornet is good, and my choice for what you have listed. That said, I would opt for k'ing the hornet, as it reduces brass flow, is a little more potent, and is a better looking ctg IMO.
1Shirt!

[M-Tecs]

In cartridges like the 22 hornet, 25-20, 256, 32-20 I prefer the non G2 Contender over the Encore for the trigger and the size and weight of the receiver. Of the four I am newest to the 22 Hornet. Only been shooting it about a year 1 1/2. Due to brass life issues not loving it as much as I thought. I will be switching my three Hornets to K-Hornets this winter. None of the three chambers are the same.

One option to the 256 is 30-357. Just run a 357 Mag case in 300 Blackout dies. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/05/09/interesting-300-aac-blk-357-wildcat/
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/shades-of-gray/

The 256 brass is hard to find and forming dies are expensive and PITA to use.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Thanks for the educational links, M-Tecs. I'd never encountered this terminology before, but the concept of interchangeable barrels is an old one going back to barrels that insert into receivers with interrupted threads. Also slip fit barrel shanks with cross pins a la Chinese SKS rifles, cheap .22s, etc. Thanks again. DG

[reed1911]

The .256 brass is still available, we sell it. Making it is very easy and forming dies are not necessary. Grab a cheap Lee 7.62x25 die and the FL die for the .256. Anneal the .357 Mag at the mouth, run it in to the 7.62x25 FL die to form the neck to .30 and then in the FL die for the .256 and away you go. Case loss is 1% or less. New brass runs 80.00 per 100 properly formed and properly headstamped. I have a lot of success using cast bullets in mine. I can run the 115g FP at full throttle and still have room in the case. Accuracy is excellent.

[atr]

I've been shooting both the 22 Hornet and the 25-20 and between the two I find the 25-20 MUCH easier to reload. To my mind the Hornet is very fussy to reload for compared to the 25-20.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

You might consider the .32-20 with a .308 bore instead of the usual .311/.312. Barrel selection should be greater for twist consideration, with good bullet selection. No special dies, just a reduced expander. ?

[John Boy]

25-20 ... http://www.chuckhawks.com/25-20Win.htm

[bigted]

AWSOME !!! thanks for all the helpfull suggestions.

the 25-20 was my choice as well for one good reasson ... i have a 10 twist 25-06 barrel already and to my mind at least ... having it cut and stubbed back in would be a spiffy way to akomplish what im looking for. re-chamber to the 25-20 should be an easy task and the flutes in the barrel should make an itegral silencer pretty easy to build [if and when]. i do like the small capacity 25-20 as it is a large enough caliber to get the long heavy boolits and still have a small capacity case to not waste room and allow a full case with a 100% load fairly easy.

sentry removal is a grand idea ... however Bullshop ... had other things in mind ... from my/our days in the great state of Alaska. target shooting will be the most common use of this rifle but in my experience ... a good target rifle would make an awsome hunter if the weight is held down.

keep em comin fella's ... more load info would be great and keep the opinions coming as well. THANKS ... :drinks:

[bigted]

oh ... guess i did not remark on the barrel stubbing reason;

the current barrels for my encore are welded to the hinge piece. now i know that this is done under a proprietary method at TC but i do know enough about metalurgy that the pull of the weld on the molecules is unavoidable and the different stress's developed can not be guaranteed to act the same all the time. funny how the electric surge with flutter from place to place while the weld is being applyed. sooo;

when the current welded barrel/hinge block are used ... the now stub [after being cut off at the end of the chamber or block] is bored and threaded to except the threaded barrel that has been turned down and threaded for this purpose. hense threaded into place instead of welded takes all the stress of the weld out of the picture and the accuracy is better anticipated rather then not knowing how the heat of shooting will act on your welded barrel assembly.

so for my little experiment with a small 25-20 chamber ... AND ... the cost of a custom barrel anyway ... as well as the fast twist i desire ... i would prefer to spend my money on a known good method for reaching my goal rather then spend a bunch on a custom barrel anyway and depend on the gods smiling down on me [which dont seem to happen too often] with a good weld developement in the molecules.

WHEWWW ... [smilie=l:

[Bullshop]

Ted
I just mentioned the Whisper cartridges because they seemed to fit your requirements for shooting heavy for caliber bullets, small case, subsonic silence ability. When you stated those requirements the Whisper cartridges immediately came to mind.
I like the little cartridges too and have some experience with all the ones you mentioned. I had a Marlin 25/20 that I was very fond of. On what I knew would be my last visit with my adopted Dad he expressed a desire to have the rifle so it went home with him and it brought me pleasure to leave it with him.
Now I am expecting delivery of another to replace it any day. I do like the cartridge especially in the little lever gun. If I were to have any other action type and wanted a small case 25 cal and since I also have some very positive experience with the cartridge I would be looking at the 25 Copperhead. Since the longer 222 mag brass is now readily available in the form of the 204 Ruger I would also be looking closely at the 257 Kimber.

[bigted]

dan ... too much powder capacity i think. for my purpose i desire just about the case capacity of the 22 hornet or 25-20 so i can keep the case filled to the magical 100% loads. fraid that the larger 222/223 case capacity would deliver too much capacity and i would have a time finding that 100% load in a slow velocity speed i would like to stay in.

unless of course i miss understood the 25 copperhead case.

personally i like the lowly 22 long rifle for just the thing i want to do. it is the very best in size and power and there has been many meals provided on my table from that lowly quiet cartridge. another place where boolit placement is key. never had a runaway problem when hunting with a good 22 where i could call my shots every time up to 100 yds. i desire something just a step up from it and reloadable with cast boolits.

[Bullshop]

Oh well then you need look no further than the 22 Cooper. Fits that ticket perfectly. In my Cooper rifle I shoot the NEI #2 design at 45 gn as cast and I shoot it without the gas check loaded with 2gn AA#2 for 1330 fps. This is just slightly over the 22 LR performance since the boolit is a bit heavier and the average speed just slightly faster. It is ever so much more effective than the 22 LR due mostly to the flat nose design of the boolit. My mod. 38 Cooper on a calm day without wind will keep this load in a nickel at 100 yards.
Then if ever you want to you have the capability to go up in velocity to just a bit over what the 22 wmr will do about 2000 fps with the same boolit. The higher velocity loading does require the use of the gas check though for best accuracy. With the hotter load my rifle still does about 1.5 moa fairly consistently if I keep the QC high on my castings.

[Greg Skinner]

That Cooper does indeed sound interesting, but I can't say anything bad about my K Hornet. I've been loading cast bullets for it for over a year and have actually found it to be very flexible and easy to load for. I've used both the 40 gr round nose and also the 225415 flat nose. I've mostly PC'd the 225415, both with and w/o gc, running velocities all the way from 1050 to 2000 fps. These shoot about 1.5 moa at 100 yds even without the gc's. The thing I like most is that the higher velocity rounds group about the same as jacketed up to 100 yds., so I never have to mess around with adjusting my scope. I don't shoot much farther because my targets are generally between 40 and 80 yds. I like the subs for close range shots at starlings, etc. The thing that surprised me was the damage the flat nosed 225415 inflict at the 2000 fps velocity. They really blow up starlings at 50 - 60 yds. It is also very cheap to shoot. 7.2 gr. of Lil Gun gets me just shy of 2000 with the 55 grain flat nose and 2 grains of Green dot puts me right at the sub-sonic level. These days that's way less costly than 22lr rimfire.

I will say that I'm doubtful that the 1 - 14 twist would stablize any heavier boolit at sub-sonic velocities, so you are pretty much stuck at the 55 grain level for subs.

[enfield]

Your choice of boolits will be increased if you use a 303 barrel for your doner for 32-20 as it has a fast twist, for anything from a 115 gr to 200 gr, roughly a .314 bore and can be removed from a pre bubba'd Lee Enfield for cheap.

[Bullshop]

I know the hornet can be a very rewarding cartridge in an accurate rifle. I have had a couple accurate hornets but got burned out on the cartridge after 5 Ruger rifles that were less than fulfilling. Every so often I get the burning desire to have a Walther hornet but the price tag usually puts out the fire.
I have a set of dies for the 22 Squirrel which has about the same case capacity as the 22 Cooper but unlike the Cooper case the Squirrel is easily reformed from Hornet cases where the Cooper requires some swaging and lathe turning. If ever I cant get Cooper brass I will likely set my barrel back and re chamber for the Squirrel because I like the small case volume for 22 cal boolits.
Its very interesting that with the same boolit Lyman 225415 and 7gn Lil-Gun I get about 2000 fps from the Cooper too but that is an absolute max load for my rifle.

[quilbilly]

Some years back I traded for a 10" Contender 32-20 knowing nothing about the caliber but it was a screaming deal and I have a Contender addiction. Fast forward, it is far and away my favorite Contender pistol caliber, most accurate, and most versatile. It is more than adequate for any game up to 80# and under 80 yards away using the Lee 113 gr GC boolit at 1400 fps and coyotes a lot farther away if my old eyes will focus (yeah, right, in my dreams). In a terminal ballistics test in wet phone books I got 17+inches of penetration at 40 yards with that boolit along with fine expansion.

[nanuk]

use whichever one you can get brass for....

hate to see you spend all your time on a project then have trouble with brass.

perhaps a wildcat based on a 30-30 or sump'n, with a LOONNNGGGG neck?

[richhodg66]

I've been messing with a Savage 219 in .22 Hornet as a small game rifle. I wanted something to replace a .22 LR and so far had good luck with the Lyman 225438, sized to .225 and tumbled in LLA (no gas check) in front of 1.5 grains of Bullseye and a small pistol primer. Consistently groups 3/4" at 25 yards and is very quiet.


I've since picked up a Bator mold and hope that bullet shoots as well. This Fall, there are some fox squirrels that will be in serious trouble when I get this rifle out.

[3leggedturtle]

For ease of finding brass I would do the 256. With one exception, I would prefer to have it made up on the full length 221FB case. You could either push the shoulder back to 256 length and have a longer neck or Just neck it up to have a little extra powder room. Realistically tho, a well made minimum dimension chamber for a 25/20 would be about the most economical for loading cast bullets.

[UBER7MM]

use whichever one you can get brass for....

hate to see you spend all your time on a project then have trouble with brass.

perhaps a wildcat based on a 30-30 or sump'n, with a LOONNNGGGG neck?

223 brass is the most available of that sized cartidge. 257-223 wildcat?

[35remington]

bt, I have to wonder if all the worrying about the welded lug on the Contender/Encore barrels is much ado about nothing. Firstly, we're talking about cartridges that deliver little barrel heat per shot, especially in slow subsonic iterations. Second, my custom Bullberry and OTT Contender barrels shoot so well that if the welded underlug is a handicap you'd have a hard time proving it with a jacketed bullet, let alone a cast one.

Anytime I want to make onlookers do a double take I load a 75 VMax in my 25-20 and shoot bugholes with it......that is, one somewhat enlarged hole, literally. The potential with cast bullets isn't as good, but I can do 0.6 inch with a plainbase bullet from 1100 to 1450 fps in my 1-10 twist barrel on demand. That's not for one group once in a while, but is a long term average over literally hundred of documented and filed away for posterity groups. This is at fifty yards.

If the welded underlug is holding me back, please explain how. Some of these barrels are in heat inducing cartridge sizes but that's not relevant here. You might want to call Fred Smith at Bullberry and tell him his welded underlugs are all wrong. I'm sure he could use something to liven up his day.

I second the notion of the non G2 Contender frame as ideal for these little cartridges. With a 22 inch heavy barrel the gun is still quite light and compact if stupidity in scope selection is avoided. In other words, no 4-12 X 56mm scopes. The rifle/carbine demands a small scope to make the handling and balance correct. Super high magnification and attendant large scope size is best avoided. Relatively low X's and small size will extract all the accuracy these cartridges have. I shoot the little bitty bugholes with a straight tube made in USA Burris of 4X. The rifle balances nicely and if I'm giving up accuracy you'll have a hard time proving it.

The multiple groups are with the RCBS 85 FN with 5.5/2400 and dacron for about 1300 fps. It will do as well a little faster than that, approximating the claimed ballistics for the jacketed factory load but at way less cost! It will also outshoot the jacketed factory load.
The other two photos are with a mess of squirrels. I'm a very avid small game hunter. I went to the 25-20 as I wanted a small game rifle that was adequate for called coyotes at the end of the day without me having to hike back to the truck to get it. It's already in my hands and I just fish a call out of my pocket.

The groups below the double bullseye are the bugholes.
111648

111646111647111645

[bigted]

35 rem ... that's some nice shooting and the squirrels make my mouth water as we used to burn em over a campfire with salt and lemon pepper on em and boy ... wish i could relive those days with all the easy stuff we did for fun and tryin to keep outta trouble.

you make a pretty good point and gives me a bit to cogitate on. i guess my luck with factory TC barrels has been pretty great at that. my 223 used to do those kinda groups as long as my fidgeting would stay calm. my 25-06 will do close to that at 100 ... but it is too much of a good thing and i desire something smaller to do exactly what you have accomplished.

as for the weld ... just my thinkin that to remove every doubt about a barrel ... that and the cost ... should guarantee a first rate barrel without any weld pull in the least. you do make a good point tho.

[35remington]

Yeah, I get you about the lemon pepper as I do that myself.

BTW......do NOT get a Contender Custom Shop 25-20. The rifle is chambered all wrong for best accuracy. My first 25-20 barrel was by them. I struggled with it for a while and finally sold it to a friend, who rechambered to a 25 Remington Rimmed, or 25-35 Improved. It was a 1-10 also. Stabilizes 117 RN's and shoots the 75 V Max well. Gets 2450 with the 117 RN and is a great woods range deer rifle. Best thing that ever happened to that barrel.

[olafhardt]

I keep wondering about a Handirifle in 22 Hornet. Could one also rebored to 25/20 or 32/20?

[35remington]

Sure.....but they are a lot heavier than a Contender like the one pictured above.

[Eutectic]

Interesting thread......

The .256 is indeed a good one. But as mentioned the short neck makes it a real challenge for cast..... So much so you may have to design your boolit and/or modify the chamber throat. That said I have a T/C .256 I have throated deeper and it will shoot Lyman #257420 like a house afire. The boolit (gascheck) is loaded to the base of the neck and just kisses the lands.

The older case designs with a lot of body taper along with a very gradual shoulder are a 'special' case in reloading.... ALL IN THE TITLE are of this design with the exception of the .256. The .25-20 a little less so shoulder-wise but the body taper is there.
Here, case sizing is critical......If you don't watch shoulder location carefully in sizing (especially the Hornet) you will get poor case life. I don't like 'neck' sizing dies! There's a good chance you neck and body will not be concentric with each other. The Redding neck dies are an exception (sometimes) as they will slightly body size as well. I set full length dies to a micrometer measured 'datum' line to a fired case's shoulder from the chamber I'm loading for. Some of the calibers mentioned in the title above I have multiple full length dies each set for a specific gun (chamber). I have 4 Hornets and 4 .25-20's as well! Maybe a pain, BUT I don't lose cases.... not even full power "J" word Hornets.

I like to varmint hunt! I love to varmint hunt with cast boolits! The .25-20 and .32-20 both excel here! I may hunt cottontails or blue grouse with either with light loads but my main usage is the old "W.H.V." equivalent loads. I have a pair of scoped Savage Model 23's.... one in .25-20 and the other in .32-20. They constantly fight over who's 'accuracy champion' Either will shot under minute of angle with their best cast boolit loads. Either will shoot cast (usually drilled) hollow points out of very soft alloy (1 in 35) to full power! These gaschecked bombs have terminal results you won't believe for these 'old guns and calibers'.
The .25-20 won't shoot a boolit over 77grs even at 1800fps IF YOU WANT THE UNDER MINUTE OF ANGLE ACCURACY! Those intimate with the .25-20 know its 1 in 14" twist is borderline at times. It's too bad Winchester and others didn't 'copy' Stevens back in the late 1800's. They rifled their .25-20 SS to 1 turn in 13"!!

Eutectic

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Time for a real long sit down and a big cup of coffee [smilie=s:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/26002-25-20-reloaders.html

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/85112-32-20-reloaders.html

[bigted]

Drebbin ... thanks for the links ... should be a great read when i get the time.

[35remington]

The slower twist in 25-20 should be an advantage with high velocity cast and I wouldn't mind a 1-14 for that. 1-14 should be no handicap and a benefit at speed. You should view LFD's stability tests when slowing down bullets in the links he provides on the 25-20. You just might be surprised what stays point forward and makes round holes at low speed. It's later in the thread.....to save searching over 90 plus pages.

I would go 1-12 if I had a choice. 1-10 is fine for low to midrange speeds but clearly loses something at high velocity with cast bullets. Jacketed don't care a bit at high speed in a 1-10.

[FLHTC]

I despise the 256 due to the sharp shoulder and short neck and wouldn't own another one. I think it was a terrible answer to a problem that didn't exist. The Hornet is fun but finicky with cast. Having attempted some of what you're after with all four cartridges, I found the 25/20 to win my heart every time. I found it to perform very well with cast and jacketed loads but when it came to heavier bullets like 100 grain and over, I wasn't pleased. I found Norma 200 to be a real accurate powder in the 25/20 with a very high load density but only with typical grain weights in both jacketed and cast.
One thing to consider in today's world is the availability of brass. Both the 32/20 and 25/20 can become one or the other but finding it is another story. The most comfortable budget here, can't buy it if it isn't available. This fact forced me to abandon my 25/20 for the time being and consider another quarter bore. The Copperhead was a consideration but this would require additional case forming, which wasn't difficult but my feeling was, why go through it when it wasn't necessary? The deeper I looked, the more attractive the 25TCU became. Long story short, the TCU does great with the 257420, 257388 and the 257418 and the jacketed bullets perform well from 75 grain hollow point to 117 grain boat tails.
Well the 25TCU is my vote, in spite of it being different than the four you listed. Accuracy, case forming, case availability, load density are all the deciding factors I need to make my decision.

[bigted]

ok looking around i see on midway's site that they have [out of stock] 25-20 WCF and 25-20 single shot ... they advertise these two as being a different case/chamber. can somebody educate me as to the differences?

[35remington]

S.S is longer case used in single shots. WCF was designed for repeaters. No matter who said what in the past, including Sharpe, who's critique I still don't quite understand in a modern context, my WCF shoots pretty well. Going back to his time with his Schuetzen friend Pope his bias is understandable and reflects his background.

[rhbrink]

ok looking around i see on midway's site that they have [out of stock] 25-20 WCF and 25-20 single shot ... they advertise these two as being a different case/chamber. can somebody educate me as to the differences?
Definitely go with the 25-20 WCF for one thing brass would be much easier to come by and a lot cheaper too. As for modern day accuracy the 25-20 WCF gives up nothing to the 25-20 SS. The single shot guys that are breech seating the 25 cal shoot the 25-20 WCF very well and turn in some fantastic scores with it. If it's good enough for them it would be good enough for me.

Great thread by the way! I have been interested in building a small cal hunting and general shooting rifle much like yourself and this thread has been most enlightening.

RB

[TXGunNut]

Gotta speak up for my personal favorite of the rounds in consideration. The 32-20 should be easier to keep subsonic and I'm quite honestly biased towards the bigger boolit. With boolit design and bore characteristics properly matched up the 32-20 won't give up much in the accuracy department to your other choices. 25-20 and 32-20 have the added advantage of being BP cartridges and that scores bonus points for me.

[bigted]

i see the difference between the cases now ... duh ... looked them up in my handloaders manual of cartridge conversions so the rim is different as well as the length. thanks for the info tho fella's.

i also am considering the 32-20 as my cartridge for the same reasons given. i like the blackpowder beginnings and it also has the advantage of the larger diameter and id like to paperpatch if possible [anything smaller than 30 cal and my fingers just will not cooperate] ... also i like the advantage of a much heavier boolit possibility if the throat and twist is rite.

[bigted]

so on the 32-20 WCF ... what load and variables need looked at? what twist would be proper to cover as many aspects of what im looking for should the barrel have? also would a snazzy 20 inch barrel be long enough for the 32?

[M-Tecs]

I was looking at quickload, the 32-20 or 30-38 has a case capacity of 22gns H2O. Quickload has a 30/357 Paxton listed with a case capacity of 24gns.

Since the 30/357 Paxton can be chambered with a 300 AAC blackout reamer. The only modification the .300 BLK single-shot rifle would need is a cut for the case rim.

32/20 case volume with more available tougher brass and .308 bullets verse .312 bullets of the 32-20.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/05/09/interesting-300-aac-blk-357-wildcat/


Some of us have been getting ready for the Handi in 300BLK for a while. Handi shooters tend to have a preference for rimmed cases. These are .357 mag brass run through a 300 BLK die. That leaves a neck about .1″ short, not a problem in a single shot rifle. The bullets are 147Gr FMJ pulled bullets from Midway (inverted). (nearly the cheapest they have.) Combine the 300BLK dies with .357mag brass doesn’t give you a 32-20 Winchester, but it sure gets close!! -

[TXGunNut]

so on the 32-20 WCF ... what load and variables need looked at? what twist would be proper to cover as many aspects of what im looking for should the barrel have? also would a snazzy 20 inch barrel be long enough for the 32?


I like the NOE 314008 over a caseful of FFFg (big surprise, huh?) but a few grains of 231 works pretty good as well. Small pistol primers seem to work best and are recommended by Mike V in his Leverguns book. Lee has a TL boolit that works OK in my revolvers and both boolits have the added benefit of being good choices for 30 cal plinkers. Not much help on the twist question but if my 92 gets a bore liner I'm thinking pretty seriously about 1:12, possibly 1:14. My 92 is a rifle so not much help on the barrel length issue either.

[303Guy]

I envy you guys. I would love a light single shot like that but alas ...

Personally I would not recommend the 22 hornet for cast because of the size of the boolit - difficult for me to cast (in my RCBS 22FN mould) and handle. There is no need to loose cases. I load mine with 55gr j's to 2740 fps and get indefinite case life - no trimming or sizing. But for reasonable to low pressure loads the cases should most definitely not fail - ever. But they are delicate cases and and I've lost a few to crushed necks but mostly to the long grass. The trick is to eliminate case to chamber wall grip. I found the hornet to be very sensitive to wind drift but then I was shooting at longer ranges but even at 110yds on the range the wind played havoc with groups.

[Stephen Cohen]

Some great advice here, if it was a cast only I would go with Mostlyleverguns Idea, makes sense to use a 308 barrel. I did see a nice Brno Bolt rifle in 25 Hornet improved a few weeks back.

[rking22]

I spent quite a bit of time looking in the same direction you are. After a 256 in a TC carbine, Hornet in a TCR rifle and some handi rifles I found what I was looking for in the Remington M25. The 32-20 with 4.5 to 5 of unique and the 311008 does what I want out of the rifle and carbine. The carbine has an 18 inch barrel and does fine, I have not shot it over the crony so cannot quantify any vel differences to the rifle. The rifle does group better but that is most likely the nut behind the trigger. I have a peep for the rifle and will see how it can really do. I like the 32-20 for the larger bullet and eaiser to cast/size, handle in general! I lose a very few cases in the press ,always my fault in cordination of the lever and getting the brass under the die :) Now the grass has eaten quite a few but I can live with that(sorta). Funny thing ,I have been shooting pump guns all my life and this one has taught me to catch the empty in my right hand while it's still in my shoulder. At least I don't lose 30 remington brass either. Now I even do that when shooting skeet with my 870s, habits once established ....

[FLHTC]

The 25 is a great gun and i owned one in 25-20. The problem was it couldn't be scoped and I began a desire for longer range and minute of angle accuracy with it. I had a Savage 32B and C but again, neither could be scoped without killing the value so I moved on to an after-market T/C barrel. I was about to order the Copperhead when a someone suggested I look into the TCU. One pass up into the sizing die with a 223 case and voila, the 25TCU case is ready to be loaded.

[M-Tecs]

Not in the OP original list but an option to the 32-20 is the 327 Federal - 32 H&R - 32 S & W class of cartidges. With the 327 Fed you can shoot the 32 H&R and the 32 S&W. Brass is straight walled and should last almost forever at low pressure.

[Eutectic]

Not in the OP original list but an option to the 32-20 is the 327 Federal - 32 H&R - 32 S & W class of cartidges. With the 327 Fed you can shoot the 32 H&R and the 32 S&W. Brass is straight walled and should last almost forever at low pressure.

AND..... The luxury of carbide dies as well!:Fire:

Eutectic

[John Allen]

Hi, my personal preference is the hornet or if you need a little more power the 32/20 especially just for the cast selection.

[rking22]

Another that wasn't on the original list is the 38 special case necked to .308. I call mine a 30 special,theres 30 Badger( search this forum) and 30 Reese that I know of and probably a bunch I don't. Case capacity is same as 32-20, so loads are out there and it just forms in a 7.62x 25 die. Use 357 brass for a longer neck or 223 brass to feed it thru a bolt action magazine. For me, compared to a 32-20 , it's a fun exercise but reinventing the wheel in effect. I just had a cat litter tub full of 38 special brass looking at me and couldn't resist ;)
The 327 is a definate possibility, I had a blackhawk in 30 carbine, so you could'nt give me one in a revolver. In a rifle could be fun. That blackhawk was the LOUDEST thing I ever shot, and that includes a 50 BMG bullpup!

[bigted]

interesting. i like the 25-20 for the small caliber and nice quiet round but then the 32-20 has peeked my interest as well. it will take far heavier boolits but i don't seem to see the optimum twist rate for that setup.

i have looked at the plain ol 357 mag for my cartridge as well. think that the 32-20 would do a little better in the long range dept but i can't say honestly why i feel that way. the 357 would sure fill the bill with about everything i desire i think. heavy boolits, light boolits, factory jacketed in the right size, common dies that i do have on hand, a better chance of landing a rifle barrel in this caliber used. HMMMMM ! :Bright idea:

everything but the reports on extreme accuracy with it. id like to get sub 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards that would make me happy. better yet would be 3/4 inch group at 100 yards would tickle me inside out i'm thinkin.

[FLHTC]

If you haven't made a decision by now, more of what you already read here won't help you.

[bigted]

If you haven't made a decision by now, more of what you already read here won't help you.


you must be getting tired of reading this thread. matter of fact i have not made a decision as of yet but i do like reading details of other folks experience and accuracy with each different type cartridge and the twist rate that made this possible.

so i say lets continue with whom ever has an added thought or detail that has yet to be mentioned.

[M-Tecs]

everything but the reports on extreme accuracy with it. id like to get sub 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards that would make me happy. better yet would be 3/4 inch group at 100 yards would tickle me inside out i'm thinkin.

Not on your list but for extreme accuracy the 30 BR is hard to beat. The 6mm BR and the 6mm Dasher are my favorite cartridges.

http://www.6mmbr.com/30BR.html

http://www.lasc.us/Brennan30BR_Bench_Rest.htm

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?104166-30-br

[ohland]

Grab a cheap Lee 7.62x25 die and the FL die for the .256. Anneal the .357 Mag at the mouth, run it in to the 7.62x25 FL die to form the neck to .30 and then in the FL die for the .256 and away you go. Case loss is 1% or less.

+ 1 on this! My dad made up some without annealing, little if any loss. BUT... Gary Reeder makes a 256 Maximum, based on the 357 max necked down. We tried Jameison (sp) brass a year or so ago, and it didn't quite pan out. Might have been due to the boolit sizing...

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Since you are like myself and aren't about to leap out and buy something without a proper think over I will add some personal experience if I may.

I have owned a couple of 22 Hornets in the past, used jacketed bullets only with them no cast. The Hornet is a great cartridge I have a huge respect for it's capabilities. A lot of fun can be had with 40gr bulk buy 22 magnum projectiles but even the fmj will turn a rabbit into instant mince. 55gr bullets would not stabilize in my guns along with what I've heard with most hornets.
As I say great respect I just never got to like the hornet.

The 32-20 I use to own was based on a Martini action fitted with an 18" heavy barrel, if life had dealt me different cards I would still own it. Don't ask what the twist was on that but I stuffed some crazy bullets down that tube with some surprising results.
Cast bullets I used Lee 90gr SWC or the commercial 115 gr RNFP's over W231. They'd flatten rabbits equally well along with cans spuds and any other fun target.
Load it with 100gr XTP's, 85 gr XTP's or the like over W296 or 4227 you've now got a little piece of dynamite that would blow critters apart. At that time shooting roos was not the no-no it is now and 32-20 with jacketed bullets did a brilliant job taking them down.
Cast bullets on roos no!
One that does stick in mind is when I got some 71gr FMJ projectiles intended for the 32acp. Compressed over W680 in that 18" barrel I had me a hell of a flame thrower! Good for nothing else but to turn all lights off while we were out spotlighting and "hey fellas watch this!"...BOOM the flame always got attention.

I now have a Winchester 92 in 25-20. I can't say exactly why but it is the favorite for me. I have become more obsessed refining loads for the 25-20 than anything. It's fun, addictive, frustrating at times but I can't get enough of it. The few times I have nailed critters with it, it just down right does the job. I have no intention to use any thing other than cast bullets through it and have yet to do a lot more tinkering with the four bullet options I have on hand now.

On a side note I was out at a friends place not long ago. He had a Winchester 53 in 32-20 I had my 92 25-20. He was loaded with 115gr cast pretty hot on 4227, on that day I was running a mixed bag of 85gr RCBS bullets at factory duplicate loadings along with the Lyman 257-420 cranked to about 1750fps. Targets were one liter milk cartons, out of date long life milk. Both guns had about equal muzzle report, explosion effect on the targets was about on par and both of us were making hit for hit out to about 110 yards. Our range limit I think was the open sights and fading day-light. That was fun!

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Another note, could you picture yourself with a Contender 25-20 loaded with 75gr Vmax @ 2000fps topped with a mil-dot scope.
In your hand a range finder along with trajectory calculations in front of you populated rabbit warrens from 30 yard to 300 yards.
That would be fun!
If it were not for our gun laws a custom built single shot 25-20 would be on my agenda. I may still go through the hoops and pursue that one in future.

[Wayne S]

Not in your requirement list ; heavy, slow, ect but, a G-1 T/C 10 22 Hornet shot at 110 yds, using the NOE 225-55 FN at about 1800 fps. To shoot anything heavier that "standard" Wt. bullets , go with a 30-20 [32-20] or 300/221. The standard T/C 1-10 twist will handle cast bullets up to the 200 gn. 311299, RG-4, RCBS 200 Sil.
112259

[bigted]

that is just plain awesome ... great post LT. just wondering how much a roo weighs over there? why no to the cast boolits on em?

Wayne ... nice post and good shooting ... thanks for posting your target.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

[QUOTE=bigted;2876824]that is just plain awesome ... great post LT. just wondering how much a roo weighs over there? why no to the cast boolits on em?

Average weight would be the 30-40kg area, some of the big males would be 60kg plus easy. A few times I had close encounters with big males up close. Hit square in the chest with the 115gr cast would knock them over only to have them stand back up and get real nasty!
Not good trying to reload a single shot full of nerves and adrenalin then have to make a head shot on a big hurt animal about too go on the offense. Heat of the moment things turn bad fast.
A good expanding bullet loaded to capacity however is a game changer, 100gr XTP never failed to blow a big hole in the heart/ lungs region, empty the oil pressure real quick so they don't last long.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

It has been around 20 years since I was using the hornets and 32-20...........wow did I just say that?
My mind set then vs mind set now is different. Bring the game size down to the more suited critters of the calibers in question.
I am out for foxs cats and rabbits in that order of priority, for any .22 caliber to perform well an expanding or fragmenting bullet is required. The trade off for that is having to blow big messy holes in the animal.
What I have found with either the 32-20 or 25-20 a solid cast bullet with a good flat nose will kill these animals effectively without turning them into soup.
For me the animal deserves the respect not to have its guts blown across the paddock! 25-20 serves me well with a quick clean kill, animal retrieved in tact. It also allows room for error, not every shot can be put where you want it in the real world. Having the extra bullet mass is a big advantage.

[bigted]

so i recon that we are talking about an animal that is roughly 80 to 120 pounds converted from your kilograms at 2.2 pound for each kg. thats roughly the size of our blacktail deer and they can be kinda tenacious to life if not hit rite with a smaller caliber.

i learned to harvest these little blacktail deer as a kid to help feed our family and later to feed my own beginning family and all i had for the task was a 22 LR to do the harvesting with. this in the late 1960's. my father taught me the value of a well placed shot to the noodle and i never lost a single deer, squirrel, bird or any other game i found for table fare with that first little 22 shot thusly. i also do not recall ever having wasted meat either as we used the head shot heads for a bucket and bury it to rot for cat and coyote bait in traps ... wheee what a nasty smell. now i am NOT mentioning this as a good idea now nor ever ... hunting deer with a 22 long rifle. but just mention it as showing what well placed boolits can and will do. so i do know the value of placing that first shot or holding on till the shot presents itself. wounded and lost game does no good for anybody ... ever.

so what does wallabee taste like anyway? LOL

[LtFrankDrebbin]

My personal opinion? Boil you kangaroo or wallaby up with a house brick, when the brick is soft throw away the kangaroo and eat the brick! [smilie=l:
I will take beef or lamb any day thanks.

I did not mean to sound like I doubted any ones ability or knowledge with that last post. I know that a well placed shot with a .22 will do the job. Many a person including myself have celebrated with success using the .22lr. What we don't admit to is how cruel it can be when it goes wrong.

Ethical ideals aside.... Have we sold you on a WCF classic yet???? :grin:

[303Guy]

I love my little hornet. The rifle is an Anschutz, a beauty to shoot with. With my loads, a feral goat is dead. But, casting little 22 boolits ....? Maybe I should try a different mould. However, with cast boolits it will not be a goat getter (unless they can be driven real fast with accuracy). It really is a novelty cartridge.

[Stephen Cohen]

Hell man, get one in all cal
problem solved.

[3leggedturtle]

you must be getting tired of reading this thread. matter of fact i have not made a decision as of yet but i do like reading details of other folks experience and accuracy with each different type cartridge and the twist rate that made this possible.

so i say lets continue with whom ever has an added thought or detail that has yet to be mentioned.

I spent 9 months trying to decide on a caliber for a Contender carbine. My choices were 9mm, 40S&W,44 Mag,45ACP and 45 Colt. I ruled out 45C and 40SW right away. 9mm took 3 months to bypass. Finally I decided that even as useful as 44 is, most of my loads were reduced to about 1000fps.Plus always wanted a 45ACP, aint regretted since. Took me awhile to decide tween an Aimpoint and Trijicon red dot. took a whole winter and part of spring to settle on an Aimpoint with 2moa dot. BUT I have pistols in all calibers listed above. Now just working on getting a 9mm barrel for carbine. Take your time but if find anyone of them at a good price buy it :)

[TXGunNut]

you must be getting tired of reading this thread. -bigted

Nope. I'm not. If I was I wouldn't bother clicking on it, let alone make a disparaging comment.
Considering the investment we often make in a new cartridge this is not a decision to be taken lightly, bigted. I find this thread interesting because I know little about a couple of the cartridges in question and I'm very interested in one of them. I've seldom taken small game seriously (unless you consider tender, tasty little piggies ;-) ) but it sounds like fun. By all means, carry on!

[bigted]

you must be getting tired of reading this thread. -bigted

Nope. I'm not. If I was I wouldn't bother clicking on it, let alone make a disparaging comment.
Considering the investment we often make in a new cartridge this is not a decision to be taken lightly, bigted. I find this thread interesting because I know little about a couple if the cartridges in question and I'm very interested in one of them. I've seldom taken small game seriously (unless you consider tender, tasty little piggies ;-) ) but it sounds like fun. By all means, carry on!

TX ... it were FLHTC's comment that i referred to with the "must be tired of reading this thread" thing. i am very happy with the responses in this thread. as LT above commented on ... i will not rush out and acquire anything till i feel i have exhausted all possible areas and feel my decision is the best i can make at the time.

and YES LT ... you guys have sold me on the WCF cartridges. now to decide between the 32 and 25. 22 hornet is outta the running for what i desire i believe. funny because when i started thinking about this decision ... the Hornet was the one i thought i wanted.

Steven ... i would very much like to acquire the 25 WCF as well as the 32 WCF in the custom Encore barrels of around 20 or 24 inch bull barrel. just not sure yet as to the twist rate of either as i need to decide what i will be shooting the most ... probably target but now what weight do i desire ... hmmm

if the heavies ... ill need a faster twist barrel that im afraid will make the lighter and faster boolits not want to group ... but then if i get an original twist in either then the heavies will suffer in the slow speed accuracy.

so i still need different opinions on the twist rate for each style and maybe one that is great for both heavy and lite boolits as well as the occasional jacketed pill.

keep em coming fella's ... this is great information and the ideas and experience's written here are a value for decision making concerning these fine light weight chambers.

[rhbrink]

I have been following along here and like bigted I am enjoying the thoughts and experiences of the people posting. I am also thinking about a project along the same lines and also have pretty much ruled out the 22 Hornet. Wonderful cartridge but with cast boolits maybe lacking just a little.

So with that in mind I ran some numbers with twist rates in mind I picked a 100 grain 25 cal flat nose that LBT makes which has a length of about .825. With a 12" twist that boolit would be stable at 1000fps and above probably better at more like 1400 to 1500 fps probably do-able in a 25-20.

With the 32-20 I chose the Accurate #31-140D a nice looking flat nose that would be at the upper end of the scale for me in a 32-20 if I so chose. With a 16 inch twist it would be stable at 1000 fps and I'm sure that you could squeeze a bit more out of it and of course anything lighted and shorter would work just fine.

Ok so now I ready to dodge the flak, let 'er fly.:dung_hits_fan:

[LtFrankDrebbin]

I am enjoying this thread as well. A lot of memories are coming back with the 32-20. Along with a lot of then vs now.
With out the net and being at the mercy of one local gun shop the never seemed to restock what I cleaned off the shelves the Martini never did get a regular diet. I so wish I could tell you what twist they gave me in that barrel.
I never knew anything of slugging the bore either.
I did once get a box of hollow base wad cutters, loaded them over 231 what charge I don't remember. They were so much fun I think I blew the lot vaporizing potatoes. How I got away with not blowing the skirts off the bullets I do not know.
Read in a magazine round about that time .308 jacketed bullets would fire through a .312 bore OK so I got a box of 125gr 30-30 projectiles. They worked well with a full case of the slower powders. A few foxes fell quickly to those.

Good thing with the Martini was the weak extractor system. First sign of pressure was a sticky to extract case long before primers would flatten. My approach then was simple, work up till they're a little sticky to extract then back off half a grain. Most often groups would be getting better with the hotter loads but the exaction factor told me that's it, good as it gets.

With the hotter loads in the 32-30 cases would stretch fast. Having a case trimmer then would have been a good thing just I was so bent on buying more bullets, primers and powder a case trimmer came into the category of a chronograph. Too many $$$

[LtFrankDrebbin]

I will not say too much on this thread about my 25-20 because most of my loading learning journey has been documented on the Marlin owners thread attached.
We are gifted now days with tools such as the internet. The world is smaller and knowledge more accessible.
I bought this particular Winchester because it had been pre bubberd so I am not guilty of killing a collector. It had a 1:13 twist sportco barrel when I got it but as much as I tried it was not going to shoot well. The chamber dimensions were not good to start plus it had a lot of other hidden demons.
As of the beginning of this year I've had the barrel replaced with a 1:14 twist sprinter barrel. So the loading journey has started all over.
I will experiment with down loading 85gr bullets later on to see if I get the same pattern old barrel vs new barrel. But first I must further refine my hunting loads.

For heavy 25-20 bullets the 1:10 contender offering may just serve well. Seeing 35remington's posts there is no handicap for the lighter faster bullets either. Getting a good chamber/ throat cut I think is the top priority of 25-20 world.

[bigted]

dont know about the flak but really enjoyed your post. food for thought. i have almost settled on the 32-WCF as i like the heavies available from Accurate molds as well as the short lighter ones from the same place. he makes such great molds at a fantastic price for the double molds. only problem ... if there is one ... he does no round nose boolits ... but that is oky doky for me as im not overly in love with the round nose designs anyway.

that 31-140 D is one i was just looking at along with the J of the same number. both look like dynamite for boolits to me. i also like the 31-105C for a lighter boolit in the 32 WCF. looks to me that the little 32 will do just about what i need.

now just to settle on a twist rate for it and MGM will get an order from me on a 20 or 24 inch bull barrel so chambered for my Encore this fall.

depending on the luck and fun i have with the 32 ... i can see getting a 25 WCF barrel as well. one bridge at a time tho. i do think that a Unertl scope of around 8X would look sexy on such a bull barrel setup.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

hhhhmmmm how many moulds are going to breed?
You seen these?

http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/31-calibre?Page=1&Items=12

Then for future use there is these

http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/25-calibre

Your gunna have sooo much fun ;)

[303Guy]

Just out of interest, is there any reason why a 25-35 wouldn't serve the purpose? Basically, what I'm interested to know is whether the larger case capacity would limit the lower end loads that the 25-20 would be expected to excel at. It won't be as quiet with subsonic loads (or would it?) but would have a higher top end without pushing the pressure and if one really wanted, it could push fairly heavy boolits fairly fast. So what I'm getting at is what are the advantages of the 25-20 over the 25-35? Aside from the cool factor that is (the 25-35 is pretty cool too!) I can easily see the appeal of the 32-20 over the 30-30 or 32-30. Jeff shortened the 303 Brit into his 303 Pygmy which illustrates that point. But being able to push a smaller 25 to usable velocities is what makes me ask. Now I would love a super lightweight break action in 25-20 but I would also love a 25-35. Two cool cartridges.

[rhbrink]

dont know about the flak but really enjoyed your post. food for thought. i have almost settled on the 32-WCF as i like the heavies available from Accurate molds as well as the short lighter ones from the same place. he makes such great molds at a fantastic price for the double molds. only problem ... if there is one ... he does no round nose boolits ... but that is oky doky for me as im not overly in love with the round nose designs anyway.

that 31-140 D is one i was just looking at along with the J of the same number. both look like dynamite for boolits to me. i also like the 31-105C for a lighter boolit in the 32 WCF. looks to me that the little 32 will do just about what i need.

now just to settle on a twist rate for it and MGM will get an order from me on a 20 or 24 inch bull barrel so chambered for my Encore this fall.

depending on the luck and fun i have with the 32 ... i can see getting a 25 WCF barrel as well. one bridge at a time tho. i do think that a Unertl scope of around 8X would look sexy on such a bull barrel setup.

Now your thinking get one of each!

RB

[rking22]

You will like the 32WCF. This group buy is going to feed mine on occasion ,along with the 31141s. I want to play with a light GC bullet,and this seems a good way to try it without breaking the bank.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?241920-A-C-E-Co-311419-copy-in-55-blocks

[bigted]

303 ... i have considered the 30-30 class of cartridges but they house too much open area for what i want to do. i want to be able to load 100% loads all the time at moderate velocity. along with the heavy pill going subsonic and still having a full case of powder. the 25-35 is a cartridge i had at one time and while it was very neat and all. it wasn't heavy nough for the hunting i was doing. in that cartridge family the 30-30 or 32 win special would do far better with the addition of the 150 and 170 grain boolits at fairly speedy velocity or even the 38-55 of which i have 2 and dearly love them.

this is the why of the smaller cartridges. they will do the 100% loads with ease and i will not have to fiddle round with filler or air in the case. also i can load blackpowder in it and dwell on a compressed load and accuracy instead of the thumpers i been playin with.

[Bullshop]

30 Johnson?

[rking22]

I know it's not on your list but there is another thread about the 270Ren that is driving me nuts, that pic Nobade posted is HOT!

[bigted]

30 Johnson?

your killin me Dan ... LOL. i googled 30 Johnson with no luck. mayhaps you could post info and photo about the rascal.

pretty sure that the 32 WCF is gonna be the round tho ... interested in seeing and hearing about it tho.

270 has been one of my favorite calibers but i yen for a round with a rim to positively chamber on.

[bigted]

just looked up the 270 Ren. that IS really cool. have to look into it further.

[rking22]

Now your hooked :) That 270Ren with the cast 95 gr looks like a "shrunk" 4070SS. I was thinking it would be at home in a mini sharps or low wall for squirrel huntin an such!

Look here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?246638-Looking-for-opinions-(brace-for-impact)-270-REN-in-an-1885-Low-Wall/page3

[Bullshop]

The 30 Johnson was a cast boolit BR round. It is based on the 30/30 case shortened to hold enough powder for the 1500 to 1600 fps most 30 cal BR shooters shoot for. It retains the long neck but has a better adjusted body and shoulder angle of more modern BR rounds.
I mentioned it in regards to your comment that the 30/30 was too capacious for your needs. When surplus actions are what was being used in CBBR the 30 Johnson was getting the glory. Still wouldn't be a bad choice especially in a single shot.

[bigted]

just went to MGM and spec out the barrel for a 30 cal/308 inch 32-20 WCF - bull 1" with threads and protector - with their 4 hole scope mt. - in matt black - with a 12 inch twist rate. when the $480.00 gets free i believe i will just pull the trigger on it so to speak.

thanks to all the posters and their comments as well as the experiences ... i am comfortable that my decision is the correct one for what i expect outta this new little shooter on my Encore frame.

again i want to thank you all ... every one ... for all the valuable comments. it has been very helpful for my decision and i really thought i was going to order or have a 22 Hornet in the beginning. glad i asked here first for helpful hints and the why of the answers.

keep the comments coming as the reading is super on this subject. i enjoy every word as do others.

[Chev. William]

I have NOT read the complete thread so I do not know if you had reviewed another old 'obsolete' Cartridge: The .32 Extra Long RF but looked into remaking it in CF version. Case length of 1.150" and can be sized down from .327 federal Magnum Brass so it could withstand higher pressures than the old RF round.

I have experimented with the Sizing operation and found that doing it in at least two stages yields the best Results. The Final case Diameter I was shooting for was .317" and out of 50 attempted, I yielded 46 finished 'parent' cases, loosing four to errors in the process.

Best Regards,
Chev. William