Varget (AR2208) in the 6.5X55?

[andym79]

Hi guys, the last two days I have been doing some experimental work with the Lyman 266469 using H4895 (AR2206H).

I was quite pleased with the results, but crossed a threshold for the worse around 100-150 fps lower than where I wanted to be!

Has anyone used VArget (AR2208) in the 6.5X55 in the range of 26-30 grains?

For the moment the H4895 (AR2206H) seems to have maxed out at 26-27 grains!

On a side note from my interpretation of Quickload it seems to show Varget as being a sweet spot at 27 grains for the velocity I am looking to achieve.

Thanks

[Larry Gibson]

I suggest you make the leap to an even slower burning powder such as H4350 or H4831SC. Consider RL19 and RL22 also.

Larry Gibson

[Yodogsandman]

Just interested in what velocity you're seeking. I'm just starting to get into the 6.5x55.

[andym79]

2100fps, yesterday I managed to get 1900-1975fps before accuracy went south!

Could do some more experimentation, but I think H4895 has hit a ceiling and more work would be wasting components!

[Yodogsandman]

Wow! G' luck!

[JeffinNZ]

I'm with Larry. You want AR2209 (H4350) at least IMHO.

[UBER7MM]

What is the Mold and drop weight of your projectile?

[andym79]

143 grains!

[andym79]

Well, I took the M96 out to the range on Saturday. I began using Varget where I left off with H4895.
The conditions where 56F misty and very calm, wind 2-4 mph. So pretty good shooting conditions.
The shoot were all taken from 100 yards. Using the 266469 Lyman 140 grain projectile (coming out of the mould at 143 grains) GC with Hornady copper checks, lubed in the groves using Caranuba red.
I conducted testing on 12 loads, using ten shot except for the last load (I will get to that).
I shot 5 rounds, and then gave the barrel 5 minutes to cool to ambient temperature before shooting the second set of 5 rounds for the 10 shot group.
The results are as follows:

Group 1 26.5gns 4 3/4" (8 shots) 1825FPS
Disappointing though it was pointed out to me that varget does not burn too well at lower pressures! This inconsistent burn was further demonstrated by two flyers. The brass didn't offer any of the tell tale neck splitting that usually accompanies flyers. I can not measure pressure but Quick-load indicates 1800PSI.
Group 2 27gns 4 3/8" (9 shots) 1880FPS
Ditto to above, 1 flyer.
Group 3 27.5gns 3 9/16" 1990fps
Ditto

Group 4 28 gns 4 1/4" 1980fps
Ditto
Group 5 28.5gns 3 3/8" 2040fps
Ditto
Group 6 29 gns 2 7/8" 2070fps
First sub 3 MOA, perhaps the Varget has got burning a bit better (estimated PSI 22000)

Group 7 29.5gns 2 1/2" 2100fps
The best group, it seems to be the sweet spot for Varget.
Group 8 30 gns 2 11/16" 2135fps
It seemed that pressure, RPM, velocity etc had begun to exceed a threshold!
Group 9 30.5gns 3 3/4" 2170fps
The threshold seems to now have been exceeded.
Group 10 31 gns 5 1/4" (8 shots 2 flyers) 2210fps
If there was any question this projectile is now getting pushed too hard.
Group 11 31.5 gns 6 11/16" (7 shots 3 flyers) 2260fps
All gone to pot!
Group 12 32 gns I only shot three, the first two 10" apart and the third off target! Just too much for the combination, surprising though no sign of leading! Quickkload estimate the pressure to be up around 29000PSI.

With the exception of around the 29-30 grains load range Varget proved largely unsuccessful as an accurate HV powder.
Indeed at a little less velocity 1970fps, H4895 proved to be a more accurate option.

I will repeat 29-30 grains at 200 yards to see what I get, as well as some of my H4895 loads.
The next slowest powder is H4350 loading of that would need to begin at 31 grains!


111843

I ran these powders through Quick-load, so that each produced an estimated 2100fps.

H4895 actually achieves the same velocity as Varget at a lower pressure.

What's interesting is that the acceleration rate in terms of pressure, demonstrates that the rate of acceleration for pressure increase is actually lower using H4895 than even H4350 or H4831. Not the peak pressure but rather the rate of increase!

Again can't be taken as gospel but H4895 looks good on paper, in more ways than one so far!

In terms of affect upon the bullet hoe does the rate of pressure increase deform it as opposed to peak pressure, obviously they both have an effect.

[Larry Gibson]

Andym79

Group 7 29.5gns 2 1/2" 2100fps
The best group, it seems to be the sweet spot for Varget.
Group 8 30 gns 2 11/16" 2135fps
It seemd that pressure, RPM, velocity etc had begun to exceed a threshold!

No, you're pushing the RPM threshold up.

Group 9 30.5gns 3 3/4" 2170fps
The theshold seems to now have been exceeded.
Group 10 31 gns 5 1/4" (8 shots 2 flyers) 2210fps

No, not exceeded, still pushing it up.

If there was any question this projectile is now getting pushed too hard.
Group 11 31.5 gns 6 11/16" (7 shots 3 flyers) 2260fps
All gone to pot!
Group 12 32 gns I only shot three, the first two 10" apart and the third off target! Just too much for the combination, suprising though no sign of leading! Quickkload estimate the pressure to be up around 29000PSI.

There is where you pushed the RPM Threshold up to. You don't cross or exceed one RPM Threshold just to find another. You push it up until you find it again which is what you have done. Now the thing to do is to confirm that you have pushed the RPM Threshold up. Load 20 shots each of load #7 & 8 and test with 10 shot groups at 100 yards and 200 yards. Look for linear expansion of the groups at 200 yards as compared to the 100 yards groups. If the accuracy holds and the group expansion between 100 and 200 yards is linear then you have reached your goal.

If not go to the next slower burning powder.

Larry Gibson

[andym79]

Hi guys,

took the M96 out again yesterday to the range.

Range conditions were, perfect blue sky 60F, wind left to right 2-4MPH. A nice winters day for shooting!

GOOD news, I think the RPM threshold got pushed up a bit more, with another projectile.

BAD news, Varget couldn't lift the velocity with the 266469.

I repeat myself here, but the fundamentals apply equally to my Varget groups as to my H4895 groups.
So apologise to those who have already read my other post.

In my heart I had reservations about how well the 266469 Varget load would really do out a 300 or even 200 yards!

I shot 20 of my chosen Varget 29.5 grain load at each distance 40 loads of Varget in total, just to be sure.

The reason I had doubt over these loads was because, I had noticed at 100 yards many, whilst forming a tight group were not printing on the target as you would like. By that I mean there was evidence of tipping and yawing in there flight. Whilst a few printed beautifully round holes, many printed imperfect holes with an o'clock preference. Showing tipping of what looked like 5-10 degrees, on occasion perhaps some times much more.

I can surmise of only four reasons for why this tipping should occur:

1. Imperfection in those bullets, an inherent imbalance, whether it be nose or base bias (I scrutinised the bullets for visual imperfections as suggest by someone who has been advising me, I didn't however take his advice on weight each bullet (the scales is more accurate than my eye in picking imperfection it would seem)).

2. The bullets were not centred true into the case upon loading, without the 266469s contacting the rifling there was no mechanism to ensure that their launch was central and so neither was their passage along its length.

3. Similar to 2, only the bullet started true, but for some reason lost trueness upon launch or passage along the bore (imperfection of gas check seating or pushing a threshold to its limit, BHN may not be uniform across all my bullets).
4. Some bullets simply printed well on the target whilst others did not at 100 yards, this however seems unlikely given my poor results at 200 yards.

Anyway back to that non linear expansion, a best group of 2 1/2" at 100 yards; groups of approximately 5 MOA or 10 inches at 200 yards! Not linear, and I cant blame the wind.

I think this is the end of the line for Varget and the 266469!

However, back to good or potentially good news. I tried out a CBE projectile yesterday, the 266132 (dressed it actually weights in at 138 grains) at 100 yards.

The CBE projectile performed well, all holes it printed on the target were nice and round, with no obvious sign of tipping. I loaded up from 29-31 grains, I pushed the 266132 up to 31 grains and 2230fps whilst managing to get a group of 3 1/4" not 3 MOA but close.

If this load proves to be linear then I will be happy; there is however no guarantee that it will. I am going to try 29-31 grains with the 266132 when I can at 200 yards