oversizedboolits in cylinder throats

[War Eagle]

I tried searching for this and didn't see it soooo...

I have finally gotten to the point that I have multiple revolvers in the same chambering. I am sticking to a single boolit mold in both revolvers however. My issue though is the varying cylinder throat diameter between the two guns.

One gun has throats 0.001" over bore diameter. The other has throats almost 0.005" over bore diameter.

I even prefer to shoot the same load in each gun. Am I stuck to segregating ammo lots for each gun or am I safe with the larger boolits (pretty much as cast diameter) in the smaller throats.

[War Eagle]

And if it makes a difference, the load is a 44 mag with a 44-250K over 8.0gr of Unique (sometimes step up to 10.0gr.). The alloy is straight COWWs.

[kweidner]

I would size to press fit the smaller and see how they run in the one with .005. You might be suprised.

[Larry Gibson]

I would size to press fit the smaller and see how they run in the one with .005. You might be suprised.

+1 based on my experience with several 44 magnums including the 3 revolvers I currently have.

Larry Gibson

[RobS]

Yep fit the smaller cylinder throat revolver and see how they run in the other. If this doesn't equate to accuracy in the larger cylinder throated revolver then.........If they will chamber I've loaded .001 over cylinder throat with no problems what's so ever and may help with the larger throated revolver. Probably wouldn't go over or much over .001 though.

[williamwaco]

Don't be surprised if something that "Every one knows" will not work, works just fine for you.
Always try it in your application before you just give up.

[DougGuy]

You could also send the cylinder and get the throats reamed and or evened out and not have to worry about it any farther.

[1874Sharps]

War Eagle,

Are you having accuracy issues in some of your revolvers with a single load and boolit size?

[War Eagle]

Yes. With the sharp shoulder of the SWC I have had accuracy issues with my Redhawk (0.433"+ throats). Shooting as cast diameter (0.433") has helped greatly in this gun. RNFP designs are not nearly as critical however--I get superb accuracy from a Lee 200gr RNFP. I am convinced this boolit is aligning itself more easily than the SWC shoulder of the Keith style.

I don't want to open the smaller throats of the Smith up to match the Redhawk but will likely open them up to 0.431" just to even them all out on this cylinder.

[1874Sharps]

If I remember correctly, many years ago one of my shooter/reloader mentors told me that S&W throats tended to be a bit small and that he had opened up a number of them, as some were actually smaller than groove diameter. Having the cylinder throats that small, of course, causes accuracy problems. Opening them up a little would not hurt anything, although personally I think I would just use two different loads for the different guns.

[44man]

For cast you must have throats a little larger then groove (Hard to measure in a S&W.) It does no good at all to size a boolit in the throats if it makes them smaller then groove. I don't like to do that even if throats are right.
I shoot too many .44 boolits that are smaller then throats but as long as they are groove size or a tad larger, they are accurate.111188 This is a .430" boolit from .4324 throats and a .430" groove. Yeah, 200 yards. Doing a drop test.
Cast sucks, just can't do that! 1-5/16" at 200 can't be done---or can it? 111189 Last two rounds I had left on a cardboard chicken at 200 meters, .430 boolit. Open sights, Creedmore. Do you know what the chicken looks like at 216 yards? About like a period on this page.

[wmitty]

44man

That is astonishingly good shooting!

[tazman]

44man quote:Cast sucks, just can't do that! 1-5/16" at 200 can't be done---or can it?
Obviously it can because you did it. I admire your shooting.
I sincerely doubt that I could do that with a good rifle scoped and rested. I know I can't do that at 25 yards with a pistol.
Well shot!

[44man]

Much written and copied that does not hold water. It is really simple to to get a revolver to beat a rifle. How you load is where it is.
I do not believe that a boolit must fit the throats tight, fit to groove works. yes you are good at .001" to .002" over groove. Expanding a boolit to obturate is not that good either.
Small throats are a big problem but can be fixed. There is no sense making throats a size die.
Make the boolits tough, and steer it right at the forcing cone.
The 200 yard target was shot with my old SBH with over 76,000 heavy loads, no wear on the gun and brass shot over 40X. Brass dates to about 1980.
Tight guns don't buy it either, my tightest is the BFR .500 JRH custom shop but it still has some cylinder movement, less then my rest but it has shot one hole groups at 100. A good gun was a Huntington custom that had twice the cylinder play as my BFR.
Don't fit a Belt Mountain pin tight either.
Seen a too tight gun wear the cylinder throats oblong and wipe off one side of the cone and some rifling. Old timers here know the gun that I will not mention again.
Now look at my .44 boolit, I cut the cone to 11* and made the nose near 11* as best I could, home made mold. Also see the case tension of the loaded round. Looks like a snake swallowed the boolit. i use 21 gr of 296 with this 330 gr and a fed 150 primer. No mag primers go in my .44's.
My boolits are straight WW metal, water dropped. I use Hornady dies.
Another great boolit is the Lee 310, 21.5 gr of 296 and a fed 150. My boolit and the Lee will out shoot an LBT WLN 320 gr. But they were an inspiration. Problem with the bought LBT's was they are softer then mine and will turn on big bone. Pete hit two deer in the shoulder and found LBT's in the guts. with a huge mess. Nose was wiped on both.
My most accurate guns were S&W 29's Had 5 and all would do 1/2" at 50 meters with open sights but grips are too sensitive and the groups could move 10" depending on how held, Bisley the same. Next the SRH that just needed a firm hold and could do 1/2" at 50 meters. Good grip.
Hog leg is the most forgiving of all.
I hate a Bisley most of all. My hand does not take kindly to them. RH is funny.

[Beerd]

Cast sucks, just can't do that! 1-5/16" at 200 can't be done---or can it? Last two rounds I had left on a cardboard chicken at 200 meters, .430 boolit. Open sights, Creedmore. Do you know what the chicken looks like at 216 yards? About like a period on this page.

Sure, you can hit 'em. But will they fall down? :kidding:

Nice shooting.
..

[leadman]

I have 2 guns with a similar, although not a severe a difference as yours. I just cast the boolits for the load they share out of an 11 bhn alloy and both are happy. Tried it with 18 bhn and it was awhile before I got the lead out of the gun with larger throats. Just need enogh pressure to cause the alloy to obturate.

[44man]

My revolver boolits run 20 to 22 BHN. There is no need to expand a boolit to the throat size.
Working with the RCBS 245 Semi wad cutter boolit and 231, Unique to find accuracy showed me an alloy from 28 to 30 BHN cut groups more then 3X. No leading. Hard alloys do not cause leading.
I found making the Keith style harder let the shoulder pull the cylinder into alignment to the bore.
Once you get a boolit to expand to the throats you are in a slump range and also skid at the rifling.
I have shot a lot of 50-50, WW and pure from revolvers and a PB drove me nuts, no accuracy at all, NEED a GC to stop skid.
I do not get accuracy with air cooled WW's either even if checked, but found if I anneal the checks, they shoot good???? Does not make sense at all. Maybe softer copper grabs the rifling better.
With over 61 years fooling with revolvers I still can't tell you all. I am so old that we could buy a revolver as a kid or get them in the mail. (Paper route money) I shot the 358156 HP from a model 27, prone and could hit 1" targets at 100 yards, in 1956 we shot the .44 mag to 500 yards or more. 429421, original. Took hair off a running chuck at 550 yards once, off hand.
I learned to take a 3' pace and measured at 200 yards I might be a foot off.
Once I started IHMSA in the early 80's, I found out what I was doing wrong.
I sure wish I had the eyesight back and could lose the shakes. I do send all of you my extra shakes over the net free of charge! :bigsmyl2::holysheep
I am like one of us that sells grease grooves but I don't charge you.

[tazman]

I would take your shakes if I didn't already have enough of my own. Obviously they help you shoot better.

[44man]

I think you guys are sending me some. Tried to hit a water bottle off hand at 100 and never seen the sights dance like that. There must have been a gremlin waving the bottle! [smilie=l:I need a rest more and more.

[DrCaveman]

44man

We really do need to get a book out of you. The results you obtain, and the methods you employ, are simply unique

How about: big bore handgun loading and shooting by Jim

A consolidation of your posts here would provide a (labor intensive) framework. Dunno if you have been sitting down lately with pencil and paper, filling up a notebook with the numerous observations you have made which often contradict the reccs of the manuals, but i think the shooting world would be a better place with such a reference tool

Ill help you out with it, seriously

[44man]

Been giving it some thought, thanks.

[1874Sharps]

44Man,

That is indeed great shooting! I, of course, can shoot just as well -- except my target would have powder burns on it.

[44man]

44Man,

That is indeed great shooting! I, of course, can shoot just as well -- except my target would have powder burns on it.
No, not in your life, Come shoot my loads and guns and you can shoot 1" targets at 100. Nothing more then work done the right way. I have tested almost everything just to prove it wrong. I believe NOTHING unless it pans out. Yes I prove most is wrong. If you knew how many posts at sites I have tested. it would drive you nuts. I do not do this.111662

[jakec]

44man

We really do need to get a book out of you. The results you obtain, and the methods you employ, are simply unique

How about: big bore handgun loading and shooting by Jim

A consolidation of your posts here would provide a (labor intensive) framework. Dunno if you have been sitting down lately with pencil and paper, filling up a notebook with the numerous observations you have made which often contradict the reccs of the manuals, but i think the shooting world would be a better place with such a reference tool

Ill help you out with it, seriously

id buy one.

[44man]

You have to know that long ago I bought a book telling how to tune a bow for broad heads. One page that was wrong. I figured out how to tune a broad head in five minutes with a compound bow. Wrote it up and was rejected but it got out. Easton is using my method now but I am not rich enough to sue. I have a good case with a copyright.
Do you know the effort, money needed or the cost to publish? It is crazy.
I also made the first lighted bow sight. What do I have? Just pride in myself. never made a dime
Nobody can fool deer like me, wrote it up and lost. can not afford it.
I really do fear a book because those I taught will claim they did it first.

[DrCaveman]

It's a damn shame that the ones with the most money (=freedom to do what they want) are the ones who have dedicated their lives to money. Not makers or fixers, just middlemen. Capitalism unfortunately offers a siren song to those lusting for gold/wealth acquisition. No work needed, just smiling and proper attire

Im terribly sorry that your previous contributions to sport were not more rewarding to your financial situation. While i can tell that you are not a man to whom money matters that much, we all could live more pleasurable and fulfilled lives if we were granted the share of gold due to us for our contributions

Enough semi-political rant. I say it again: ill help you out. Wish i was nearer west virginia so you could know to trust me, but i dont have any plans to get that far east any time soon.

Thread hijack fully realized, will shift this to a new thread or PM.

[44man]

Never involved money for me. Made enough and made a ton fixing TV's for 1/4 the price the shops charged. I just did more fixes and never had less then $300 in my pocket. Nothing to fix 15 a night after work. I found TV's in my garage when I came home from 100 miles away. How did they know from that far?
It is ethics only. Those with too much money have no ethics. Someone could copy every post I made, write a book and never mention me at all. What could I do?
My greatest moments were when a person looked me in the eye and said "thank you." Some took advantage of me and still do.
I made friends and what more is needed in life? I never cheated or lied. But those that benefited by taking advantage will never talk to me again. They live a miserable life. and have shame.
I think they beat the hell out of a dog that poops the house. My little one makes a mistake, she will bark at me and my thought is good, I was worried about her health because she didn't poop when I had her out. She knows she did wrong and has never been screamed at or spanked. Dogs are smarter then some people.
Come here, I will clean your gun, do a trigger job and anything else FREE, I do not need stinking money from you. A handshake is my way. I could be rich but not in my heart.