Should I lube or not for fast accurate rifle PC boolits?

[Yodogsandman]

Load developement has gone well for my 35 Whelen using IMR4064 and 301gr NEI 358 282GC. Best load without HT is 42.0gr, best with HT is 48.0gr. Now, I want to increase the speed and retain the accuracy by PCing and HTing the boolits. I haven't chonographed the load but, I think it's close to 2100 FPS. Should I lube or not with PC'd boolits? I wonder if the bands will collapse without the lube to support them.

[Forrest r]

I don't lube them but I do use 2 coats of pc on them.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/shotboolits_zps66df2631.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/shotboolits_zps66df2631.jpg.html)

Some boolits recovered from the berm, they shatter, bend, break, get gouged, etc, but the pc stays on & the lube grooves look good. The tl 230g boolit shot @ 2300 shows no signs of skidding or failure.

There's only 1 way to find out with your setup, load some up & get some trigger time in.

[Yodogsandman]

Thanks for sharing your experience, your photo is worth a thousand words!

[Yodogsandman]

Ok, UPDATE; I PC'd and HT'd my boolits, quickly weighed about 20 of them. Well within 1/2gr +/-. Loaded on top of 48.0gr IMR4064 as is my best accurate load to date. O.A.L. at 3.240". Loaded ten boolits of the exact same weight. Took them to the range yesterday. They shot about 4" lower and approximately a 4" group at 100 yards. I also shot my accurate load to check with different O.A.L.s., those shot a 2 7/8" group and a 3 3/8" group. All groups were 10 shot groups. I had to guess at the PC boolits group size due to boolits holes that went off the paper, I also aimed at the nail head holding the target up for 6 shots because it hit so low. I'll change the O.A.L. on the next loads because the bolt handle was real hard to lower on these rounds when loading. Also, these loads do fit my magazine where, the others (non PC) tried yesterday did not and were fed as singles. I did not recover any boolits from the berm, they were too deep or demolished on impact. I also didn't see any red PC chips in the dirt. Impacts threw dirt 6-10 feet on impact with 8" diameter of disturbed dirt. Bore riding section of the PC'd boolits was .357" and non-coated were .348". Also, no signs of pressure at all, the spent primers seemed to have rounded edges the same as the non-coated ones. I think I should have waited a few more days after HTing to improve groups.

[35 shooter]

Just a thought, but since the nose is enlarged with the coating, it might want a bit of run at the rifling? I take it your well engaged at 3.240 ?

[Yodogsandman]

Engaged too well! I'll be backing off on that the next loads. I think that by shooting 4" low, that might indicate a faster velocity. I sized to .359 prior to PCing and sized to .360" after PCing and HTing. I was just thinking about a nose sizer, too.

[Yodogsandman]

I heated the boolits in the toaster oven for 45 minutes at 450 degrees, powder coated, then back in the oven for 25 more minutes at 400 degrees. I opened the door and immediately quenched the whole tray in a bucket of cool water. Maybe I should have added ice? I know I should have waited 5 days after HTing but, I couldn't wait to try it! They'll be ready for next time now. For some reason, this batch of alloy made the boolits come out slightly undersize. I might have got a couple of pure lead ingots in the pot by mistake. This made them ripe for PCing, but might not have HT'd high enough.

My plan is to work up a higher velocity but still accurate load, then try inverting the boolits when I spray them to keep the PC off the nose. With my normal alloy, the noses are just right size-wise, about .351". I then plan to stand them in a pan of water and hit them with a torch to take the temper out of just the noses. This will give me more expansion, I hope. My goal is an accurate load at 2300 FPS with a soft nose (13-14BHN) 301gr boolit for hunting. I'd also like to get double the diameter expansion. Accuracy expectations are under 2" at 100 yards with a 10 round group. With me shooting! A cake walk, eh?

[Yodogsandman]

The normal alloy I use for rifles is 9 1/2 lbs of COWW and 1/2 lb of 50/50 pure lead/tin bar solder. I melt about 1/2 a pot of COWW ingots, melt the 50/50 solder in, then fill the pot to the edge of the rim each time. I think COWW have a good amount of arsenic for HTing. This should give me pretty close to a Lyman #2 (15 BHN) mix but, AC'd only about 13-14 BHN after age hardening about 3-4 weeks. I have no tester to check the hardness. Don't care about the exact BHN, as long as it does what I want. BHN of different alloy materials is well documented on the site.

I have not tried to heat the noses of boolits to soften them, yet. From my research, it has been done successfully. Cooking them in the oven didn't work out that well, boolits fell over during transfer to the oven. A propane torch made the boolits fall over from the force of the flame. A small butane torch was preferred. Also, a temperature stick for welding was used to regulate when the boolit was up to temperature to take the temper out, just high enough to do the job but, not high enough to melt the nose. One writer used the butane torch and just watched for the nose to change color. Another placed a drop of water on the nose and heated it until the droplet steamed off. I also feel that oven heating would be better. Maybe just put the boolits back in the PC rack in the pan of water to keep them from falling over. Any which way we choose to do it the noses must be left to cool to ambient temperature on their own without quenching to remove the temper.

[Yodogsandman]

I just came in the house from the barn and read this, after putting a half pound of 50/50 solder in the pot. You're right, I should use just a quarter pound to reduce the hardness on the nose after de-tempering it with the torch. I really should work up the load as I intend to use it. I'll have to wait till the next batch, now. I want to regulate the diameter of the nose section using alloy mix only since that won't be PC'd for hunting.

[smokesahoy]

I shot some 311440 out of an AK on top of 28 grains TAC, they expanded to .80 in the berm and all paint was shed in the clay. I think it was too hot but I wonder if even something milder would have shed the paint due to the bullet expanding all the way down to the plain base. It basically got hammered flat in an abrasive do not sure if that is what did it or the paint bond just failed.

[Yodogsandman]

I'm sure it would do the job when asked to even if the boolit doesn't stay coated. The PC powder paint has done it's job when it reaches the target, so the bond is moot at that point. Are you sizing or lubing that boolit? What type of accuracy are you getting?

I searched for accuracy in my SKS's for the past two years...I'm taking a break on the 7.62X39mm. Average just ain't good enough! I did get some great groups though... but, I couldn't repeat them. It's a perfect round for PC'ing though, it helps keep your gas system clean.

[Yodogsandman]

I got some velocity numbers today, PC wins by about 90 FPS. Lead boolit was about 2050 FPS with 48.0gr IMR4064, same boolit and load, PC'd averaged 2141 FPS. Next PC load at 49.0gr IMR4064 went 2170 FPS. Now to work on the accuracy, it was bad all around but, I'm sure a lot of it was me!