Here is your stealthy zinc enemy

[konsole]

Here I have compiled a collection of all the zinc weights I have found that are easy to miss. Either they dont have a "ZN" or its in a unique spot or just hard to see. All other zinc weights I found had a "ZN" that was easy to see. I know many people just keep the temperature below zinc melting temp and skim off the zinc weights from their lead melt, but speaking for myself I prefer to separate out the zincs beforehand. This is all the "sneaky" zinc weights I pulled out of a pile of about 35 pounds of zinc weights. Hopefully you guys can chime in about 5, 9 and maybe 19 being zinc or not. I've tested all of these with pliers and a magnet, hardly even a scratch with pliers and no magnet attraction.

http://s13.postimg.org/aqr1nsox3/zinc.jpg

(zinc weights seem to weigh an average of roughly 1 oz. each, so 35 pounds would be about 560 weights (give or take maybe 100). The numbers in parenthesis represent roughly how many of those I found out of 560)

1- (10) "ZN" is on the reverse of some and some don't have it. Zincs are always painted while some rare ones are not. Some of the non painted ones crumble apart when squeezed
2- (2) "ZN" is on the right half. The two sides are pretty well secured together but the side that says "ZN" may be missing
3- (20) "ZN" is not there. There are lead ones that look very similar to this one. Any that look like this should be tested.
4- (100) "ZN" is in the top right corner, but the combination of paint filling in the letters and weakly indented letters make the ZN very hard to see. These are very common. A small percentage of these have a ZN that is much bolder. Even though they say "ZN", my guess is they must be some sort of zinc alloy because they don't seem to melt at the same temperature as most other zinc ww's, and instead seem to take a much higher temperature to melt.
5- (1) I'm not exactly sure this one is zinc, but its very hard and not attracted to a magnet
6- (5) The few I have seen have the "N" in "ZN" partially missing
7- (5) "ZN" is there, but on many of these the "ZN" doesnt show well. One on the right shows how its easier to read when the weight is worn.
8- (5) "ZN" is there but its easy to miss on the front 45 degree angle of the weight
9- (1) Not exactly sure this one is zinc but it appears to be
10- (5) "ZN" is there but these are so unusually small for a zinc weight that they are easy to miss
11- (10) "ZN" is there but its way off to the edge and its easy to cover it accidentally with your fingers
12- (5) "Z" is there but its part of "REGZ"
13- (5) "ZN" is there but all the lettering is unusually spaced out
14- (5) "ZN" is there but its very faint
15- (50) No "ZN" and these are the ones I missed the most when I first got into sorting weights. You will find plenty of these in a 5 gallon bucket
16- (2) "ZN" is there but its small and easy to miss
17- (2) "Z" is there but its part of "MCZ"
18- (5) "ZN" is there but its not raised that high so its hard to see
19- (2) "ZN" appears to be there but its hard to tell, I've only seen 2 of these and both were in bad shape
20- (1) "ZN" does appear to be there but the lettering is very small and weak

[smkummer]

good info, thanks What is the ratio that ZN will alloy with lead, is it 2% or .02%?

[RogerDat]

The ones that are in question (no ZN label) did you check them with diagonal cutters to check if they are soft enough to cut, or check with magnet to rule out steel? One sure check is hydrochloric acid will bubble on zinc.

Me if the won't nip they are not lead. If any slip past I will probably catch when they float during melt by watching the temp on thermometer and staying below zinc melting point. Last but not least I think Banger Jim deliberately fed zinc into his melt and found that below 4% or 5% it would still cast ok. Some difference in diameter, weight and hardness when it had lead vs. lead without zinc in same mold but still usable.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Appreciate your time and effort writing this up.

[el34]

I was happy with keeping the pot well below zinc melting temp (780F or so) but had some partially melted clipons anyway. Now I'm thinking if zinc happens to be at the bottom of the pot when the fire is first lit, it might get momentarily hot enough to melt zinc before a sufficient puddle of molten lead is formed to even out the temp.

You can't measure the pot temp until there's liquid in it deep enough for the thermometer.

[2wheelDuke]

Good writeup. Do you have an automatic center punch? Mine barely marks zinc or steel, but makes a good dent in lead. Side cutters usually make it pretty obvious too. I've had some painted weights that I thought were zinc by the look, but a piece easily clipped off when I nipped them.

[konsole]

good info, thanks What is the ratio that ZN will alloy with lead, is it 2% or .02%?

Don't know, I personally havent gotten into bullet casting yet

[konsole]

The ones that are in question (no ZN label) did you check them with diagonal cutters to check if they are soft enough to cut, or check with magnet to rule out steel? One sure check is hydrochloric acid will bubble on zinc.

Me if the won't nip they are not lead. If any slip past I will probably catch when they float during melt by watching the temp on thermometer and staying below zinc melting point. Last but not least I think Banger Jim deliberately fed zinc into his melt and found that below 4% or 5% it would still cast ok. Some difference in diameter, weight and hardness when it had lead vs. lead without zinc in same mold but still usable.

Yes all the weights pictured I used some pliers and clamped down on an edge as hard as I could and got nothing more then a scratch, and none stuck to a magnet either. I just tried the pliers and magnet again and same result.

I like to separate out the zinc because even though I havent gotten into bullet casting yet, I enjoy making bars with the zinc. I've made a couple 5 pound zinc ingots so far. So all total I've accumulated 50 pounds of zinc.

[konsole]

I modified the original post with different numbers in parenthesis

[konsole]

I was happy with keeping the pot well below zinc melting temp (780F or so) but had some partially melted clipons anyway. Now I'm thinking if zinc happens to be at the bottom of the pot when the fire is first lit, it might get momentarily hot enough to melt zinc before a sufficient puddle of molten lead is formed to even out the temp.

You can't measure the pot temp until there's liquid in it deep enough for the thermometer.

The only time I'm ever worried about zinc in a lead melt is if I'm starting with a dry pot and there might be zinc weights at the bottom. Like you said the molten lead seems to keep the zinc's under their melting point for plenty long enough time to remove the zinc's whole. I've caught some zinc weights (6,8,11,12,15 have snuck through my initial sorting), and every time the zinc weights hadnt started to melt yet by the time I started skimming off the lead weight clips. My guess is it helps that my Coleman stove isnt exactly a blast furnace.

[AggieEE]

I've found some like #4 with out the "zn" mark and some with. I've also seen#5 with different numbers (weights?). I did a similar post "zinc stickons" but not in the detail that you did. Thanks

[old cobra]

I leave an inch of known alloy in the bottom of the smelting pot to start the next batch. When it's up to temp start adding new material slowly skim flux and add until the pot has enough to ladle some into ingot molds. This way it's a continuous process until you get tired or run out of raw material. Don't forget to leave some in the pot to start the next batch.

[konsole]

I've found some like #4 with out the "zn" mark and some with. I've also seen#5 with different numbers (weights?). I did a similar post "zinc stickons" but not in the detail that you did. Thanks

I found that almost all of the weights that look like #3 and #4 are zinc, especially if you can make out a "ZN" obviously. However you have to remember that on #4 the ZN is very hard to see on most of them. Any like #3 and #4, that I couldnt make out a "ZN", a handful where steel with some surface rust, and about 5 or 10 where lead. The #4 ones are common but 75% of them have a very small and weak "ZN" because the ZN is weakly indented and the paint partially fills in the lettering. The other 25% have a much larger and bolder ZN that stands out more because dirt and brake dust usually defines the lettering better.

[el34]

Konsole, what's your interest in making zinc bars? Just curious, maybe I'd want to do it too.
You're not Grady in disguise are you?

[BNE]

Nice work sir, useful to have.

[C. Latch]

#9 and #19 would have fooled me.

I don't have a thermometer, so I force myself to use pliers on every single weight as it goes into the pot.

[Old Caster]

There are some that look a lot like #2 that are tin. It is easy to check which they are by temperature.

[konsole]

I melted some zinc into bars today and I'm a little stumped here. All of the stick-on's that look like #4, would not melt along with all the other zinc weights. The clip-ons all melted no problem, but the stick-ons seemed to all come out whole when I skimmed the steel clips off. I double checked the ones that wouldnt melt and I could see the "ZN". I know they arent steel because I just got back from testing them with a magnet. My best guess is they are some sort of zinc alloy that makes them melt much higher then 787' F

Any ideas about the stick-ons that say ZN ?

[konsole]

There are some that look a lot like #2 that are tin. It is easy to check which they are by temperature.

Isnt tin relatively light and expensive? I wonder why it would be used for wheel weights.

[konsole]

#9 and #19 would have fooled me.

I don't have a thermometer, so I force myself to use pliers on every single weight as it goes into the pot.

#9 is hard to tell exactly what it is because the only markings it has is a weight and it doesnt look like any other weight I have seen. I know its not steel because it wasnt attracted to a magnet. As for #19, it looks alot like #15 just with some more markings, plus it looked to me like there was a "ZN" right in the middle of the markings.

[konsole]

Konsole, what's your interest in making zinc bars? Just curious, maybe I'd want to do it too.
You're not Grady in disguise are you?

I guess a couple reasons, but like the lead I dont really have any use for zinc. I like how zinc melts at a lower temperature like lead so you can use a basic setup to melt it. Its fun making bars out of a metal that casters usually just throw out with the trash. Its quite a hard metal so you can pour a bar and that bar can be used and abused and still look like it was just poured. Its a heavier metal so a brick that fits nicely in your hand feels substantial while not being too heavy, whereas a lead brick the same size is a bit too heavy. It has a nice color to it more like a silvery color as compared to leads dull grey color. Like I said though I really don't have any use for zinc other then just making bars, I thought it would be fun to make some bars and just set them on a shelf as decoration or conversation pieces or something like that. I may not keep the zinc though so I'll have to see it Grady is interested in it.

Zinc is definately harder to work with then lead. It sticks to things alot more, like your ladle, sides of the pot, and the clips you try to skim off. It seems to take roughly twice as long to melt on my Coleman stove, even though it melts only about 150' F higher. I'm guessing thats because 787' F is getting close to the maximum temperature my Coleman stove can keep the melt at. If you have a setup that can really pump out some heat then it could be fun to melt zinc and make things that need to be hard but not super hard like garden tools, or I've heard some guys make hard bullets with zinc.

[el34]

Sounds like it just 'resonates' with you. A good thing when it happens.

[Old Caster]

Isnt tin relatively light and expensive? I wonder why it would be used for wheel weights.

Tin runs about $9 a pound. I think the small flat ones are from motorcycle wheels. I got about 6 pounds of the tin ones in a group buy of a lot of lead. Unfortunately some of the lead had some zinc already mixed in it and it was a pain to cast with but I guess I can't complain because it was cheap and I just traded some pull down powder that I really didn't want to begin with. Of the small flat wheel weights I got, about 10 to 15 of them were zinc and the rest, several hundred, were tin.All that were zinc were marked zn and the tin had nothing but a sort of an oval with a boomerang shape next to it and the next one to it would have 7g which is guess is 7 grams. They have a gooey stick on tape on the back with a removable paper covering. Two of them make square of about 1 inch by 5/8 of an inch. They weren't used but new.

Tin probably weighs between what zinc and lead does

[konsole]

I think the small flat ones are from motorcycle wheels.

Your referring to the #4 or #5?

Can't be #4 because from what I have seen they make up like 25% of all zinc weights in a bucket (if they are zinc after all), and I can't imagine the tire machines handle that many motorcycle wheels.

[Old Caster]

I am thinking #5. Your #2 has the same looking brand as the ones I have that are tin but yours are marked zn. The easiest way to tell if they are zinc is what temperature they will melt. Even if you melt them with a torch, you can have a pretty good idea which it is because tin has a lot of surface tension and will make a taller puddle than lead or zinc.

[el34]

... the tin had nothing but a sort of an oval with a boomerang shape next to it and the next one to it would have 7g which is guess is 7 grams.
Are you talking about these? They aren't tin, they are lead with a hardness about the same as clipons. Almost all my tireshop scores are stickons and I'm always happy to see these in the bucket-

111200

[ohland]

Tin runs about $9 a pound.

Oh? Let me know where this happens so I can clean em out.

[Old Caster]

Oh? Let me know where this happens so I can clean em out.

If you watch on Ebay, someone will sell a hundred pounds or so and no one is willing to buy that much and won't bid on it. I got about 50 pounds by just putting a bid of $8 a pound and forgot about it. If I got it OK and if I didn't OK also. I wound up getting it for a bit less than $5 a pound and I figure it was because no one wanted over $400 worth of tin. They all wanted 1 to 5 pounds of it. Who but a bullet caster would want it and commercial people buy their alloy already mixed and I am not going to buy it low and sell it because there are too many ways to make extra money without going that route. Likely it came from an estate sale too and the people just wanted some money and were amazed they got as much as I paid.

[Old Caster]

Are you talking about these? They aren't tin, they are lead with a hardness about the same as clipons. Almost all my tireshop scores are stickons and I'm always happy to see these in the bucket-

111200
Yes they look like the ones I have. Check again to be sure you don't have tin. Just melt one on a piece of steel and watch how much surface tension there is and then melt the same amount of clip on's and see the difference. Specifically test the one with the 7g on it. Notice they are about the same size but weigh different amounts.

[el34]

Yes they look like the ones I have. Check again to be sure you don't have tin. Just melt one on a piece of steel and watch how much surface tension there is and then melt the same amount of clip on's and see the difference. Specifically test the one with the 7g on it. Notice they are about the same size but weigh different amounts.

Now I'm intrigued and will look deeper. I guess it's possible these have enough tin in them to visibly reduce surface tension. They are pretty obviously in one continuous strip which makes it hard to imagine being different metals. 7g = 0.247 oz, pretty close to the 1/4oz it's neighbor is marked with.

The upper piece is twice the thickness of the lower one, hence twice the marked weight.

[500MAG]

I prefer the old tried & true wire snipper test. I can get through a 5 gallon bucket pretty fast.

[Old Caster]

To check between zinc and lead alloy is simple but between tin and some odd lead alloy it isn't.

[el34]

To check between zinc and lead alloy is simple but between tin and some odd lead alloy it isn't.

Yep. But you just don't hear much talk about how to identify tin wheelweights. I'm skeptical on this one.

[a.squibload]

... Its fun making bars out of a metal that casters usually just throw out with the trash...

Hope everyone is not throwing it in the trash.
Last time I accumulated more than half a bucket I took it to the scrapyard
(along with some steel) and made a few bucks, then bought lead.
They tried to call 'em "lead wheelweights", I corrected that and got a little more.

Good writeup and attention to detail.

[RogerDat]

Local scrap yard gave me 45 cents a pound for some zinc ingots I had from a mixed batch of lead and zinc ingots. I'll have to keep an eye out for tin WW's but since I test everything with diagonal cutters if it's it nips it gets melted, I think the tin would be softer than zinc, harder than lead but still take a nip from the dikes. At least all of my known tin scrap will but I have not checked pewter which would be almost all tin.


If I accidently get a little tin in my WW lead no harm done. Don't think that little bit will throw off a 50 lb. batch by much.
Seems like tin would be awful expensive for WW use.