Malaysian airliner downed in Ukraine with 295 aboard

[WILCO]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/17/malaysian-airlines-crash-ukraine-russia/12779763/

[Gator 45/70]

Yeah, Not looking good at all !!!

[knobster]

Tragedy. Prayers to all those affected by this.

Wonder how Obozo will spin this to blame US gun owners?

[RayinNH]

Tragedy. Prayers to all those affected by this.

Wonder how Obozo will spin this to blame US gun owners?

..or George Bush.

[HarryT]

NSA knows exactly what happened to the plane. President Obama should have got a flash message within seconds of the crash (shoot down).

[Deliverator]

they know what happened to the plane, they DON'T know WHO shot it down. They do know that it was shot down.

[Larry Gibson]

Flight 370? I wouldn't be taking any Malaysian Airlines flights out of Kuala Lampur.........

Larry Gibson

[sthwestvictoria]

Terrible. Would this be the first MANPAD strike on a commercial craft that has been successful? If so it demonstrates how fragile commercial aircraft are to this type of attack - flying at cruise and still struck.

Edit: Unfortunately not the first non-state use of MANPADs according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-portable_air-defense_systems#Against_civilian_aircraft). However the first use against an aircraft at cruise, unrelated to the parties on the ground. The Ukrainian military also shot down a Russian passenger plane in 2001, possibly in a training exercise (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/history-of-airlines-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-mh17).

[lylejb]

not a MANPAD. The flight was at 10km altitude, too high for manpad.

news is saying BUK mobile SAM system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system

[MtGun44]

Definitely not MANPAD. If they are correct, a BUK which has two or three tracked vehicles to make
up a battery. Not something that amateurs could operate, seems extremely likely that Russian technicians
are operating this SAM site. Ukrainian security has intercepted a Russian intelligence officer phoning
home and reporting that they "f***ed up" and shot down a civilian airliner by accident. Sounds like
the truth to me, I'll bet that Putin is trying hard to figure out how to blame this on someone else.
Look for "innovative" stories on what happened.

Sounds likely that they have the Rooskie gear and techs but a clueless or non-existent command and
control net to make decisions.

Bill

[500MAG]

This is going to be real interesting how this plays out. All the grumblings over there along with the Middle East Gaza invasion, lets see how Obama handles this. Obama phones & welfare checks won't do snot for foreign affairs.

[MaryB]

He went fund raising.... time to impeach him and be done with it.

Russians are in trouble and it is going to be interesting. Bet they blame an inexperienced operator who violated rules. He will be shot by a firing squad so can't answer a court...


This is going to be real interesting how this plays out. All the grumblings over there along with the Middle East Gaza invasion, lets see how Obama handles this. Obama phones & welfare checks won't do snot for foreign affairs.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Maybe it is goose hunting season over there that some rebels were "sky busting" at anything that flew over and did an "OOPS"?Robert

[quilbilly]

CBS news in San Francisco reports that 100+ of the victims were AIDS researchers headed to a conference. That ought to get the leftist's attention.

[Col4570]

An awfull event,not a time for flippancy.

[jcwit]

He went fund raising.... time to impeach him and be done with it.

Russians are in trouble and it is going to be interesting. Bet they blame an inexperienced operator who violated rules. He will be shot by a firing squad so can't answer a court...

Mary, impeachment must go thru the Senate after the Congress, tell us how do you expect to get thru Harry Reid?

And You would wish for Joe Biden for President?

This November we need to gain control of both houses, then and only then mayhap can we see improvement.

[Deliverator]

Mary, impeachment must go thru the Senate after the Congress, tell us how do you expect to get thru Harry Reid?

And You would wish for Joe Biden for President?

This November we need to gain control of both houses, then and only then mayhap can we see improvement.

Also the impeachment process requires crimes to have been committed in office. Going to a fund raiser isn't illegal.

[Deliverator]

Maybe it is goose hunting season over there that some rebels were "sky busting" at anything that flew over and did an "OOPS"?Robert

From what I understand of the information so far it sounds similar to this situation. They have been targeting Ukranian cargo aircraft for a couple of weeks now, and they tweeted that they shot down another Ukranian cargo plane at the time this jet was shot down, and then deleted the post when reports of a commercial airliner was shot down over Ukraine.

Sounds like a "shoot anything that flys over" and "Uhm, that wasn't a military airplane...whoops..." situation.

[JeffinNZ]

An awfull event,not a time for flippancy.

+1. I was thinking that same.

[Col4570]

Hopefully this tragedy will bring the warring factions to their senses.Europe is on the brink,we are seeing shades of 1939_45.What was a set of minor scuffles has now escalated into a potential war.The fact that a group have deployed highly sophisticated weaponry is enough to indite those who supplied this equipment.

[sthwestvictoria]

Hopefully this tragedy will bring the warring factions to their senses.Europe is on the brink,we are seeing shades of 1939_45.
I agree with the first part - hopefully this brings the fellows in the Pro-Russian eastern Ukraine to their senses and stops them playing war games.

However to suggest this is anything like the lead up to WWI or WWII is absolute hyperbole. The rest of Europe is politically quite stable overall. Yes there is a moderate financial rollercoaster but still nothing like the depression or the German animosity to the post-WWI sanctions. There are currently no overt nationalist governments in power unlike the situation with German National Socialists or the Italians in the 1930's.

[dtknowles]

I agree with the first part - hopefully this brings the fellows in the Pro-Russian eastern Ukraine to their senses and stops them playing war games.

However to suggest this is anything like the lead up to WWI or WWII is absolute hyperbole. The rest of Europe is politically quite stable overall. Yes there is a moderate financial rollercoaster but still nothing like the depression or the German animosity to the post-WWI sanctions. There are currently no overt nationalist governments in power unlike the situation with German National Socialists or the Italians in the 1930's.

Its the economy, people without meaningful jobs and no income will often take up arms especially if it will get them food and shelter.

Tim

[Elkins45]

I'm having a hard time understanding why they are still routing commercial air traffic over an area where they have routinely been shooting down aircraft.

What a mess, and a real tragedy.

[JeffinNZ]

I'm having a hard time understanding why they are still routing commercial air traffic over an area where they have routinely been shooting down aircraft.

What a mess, and a real tragedy.

Couldn't agree more. Just doesn't seem to make sense.

The entire situation is a mess and I can't help but think it's going to get worst as those responsible continue to lie, cheat and steal.

[Col4570]

Locals are now looting the crash site,The weaponry used to shoot it down has been taken back to Russia,political damage control is evident,Whole families traveling to their vacations where wiped out.All due to interference in Ukraine affairs.The poignant Photos of those killed are a damming indication of crass strutting on the world stage.

[MtGun44]

Putin supplied the complex surface to air missile systems (3 were seen entering from Russia) and
I have zero doubt that the trained technicians came with them. Three systems (3 vehicles per battery)
were seen crossing back into Russia the day after the shootdown, one was short one missile on the
launcher (carries four, had only three). US intelligence has verified several comms intercepted by
Ukrainian intel, including one where the local yahoos called the Russian intelligence officer to report
that they had just shot down "an AN-26" (Antonov 26 military transport), and then another call that
it was a passenger jet, and then the Russian intelligence officer phoning Moscow to report the
info.

Clearly the blood is on Putin's hands, giving this sort of weapons system (and operators) to a bunch
of thuggish crazies that will shoot at anything they see because he wants to destabilize Ukraine so
he can take it over, or at least keep it so weak and dependent on Russia that it will be functionally
controlled from Moscow.

Europe is both extremely weak militarily and 'captured' because they get a very large fraction of their
energy from Russia, so they can't and won't do much. Zero won't do much and whatever he does
will be undercut by no support from Europe. Oz is pretty pissed off due to losing a bunch of their
citizens, but I wonder what they can do or are willing to do, and how much impact it will have on
Putin's grand plan to reassembly Humptey-Dumptey (USSR).

Bottom line, lots of hand wringing, no real effect on Putin and he will likely continue to grab back pieces
of the USSR with relative impunity. He grabbed chunks of Georgia and nobody said anything, he
grabbed Crimea and there was barely a ripple, he sent Russian intelligence officers to lead and
assist the "separatists" in Ukraine, and armed them, and probably had lots of Spetznatz sprinkled
in among them, and nobody has done anything, we haven't even sent any weapons to Ukraine.
I'd be real surprised if there were any real cost to Putin for this tragedy.

I developed and managed projects in Ukraine for a decade and have a lot of friends there. Sad to see
what they are getting put through.

Bill

[Col4570]

MtGun44,Well said,the fools who supplied the weaponry are as guilty as hell,no amount of posturing will convince the world that the crime was not commited by insurgents working for a puppet master state.Russia has lost the plot.Lets see what tantrums the guilty parties get up to now.