Please tell me about this press, CH Champion Auto Progressive

[DeputyDog25]

Gents, I have the opportunity to obtain a CH Champion Auto progressive press that is in very good condition, it is currently setup to produce .38 special. Problem is I don't know what is and what isn't there for it to be operational. Do you know if parts are still available? Does anyone own one or owned one in the past that they can share some insight on this press. Thanks in advance for any and all information. Below is a picture of the press.
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj623/Deputydog10/_57champion_zps2ad8afc7.jpg (http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/Deputydog10/media/_57champion_zps2ad8afc7.jpg.html)

[salpal48]

if it's a Mark 5 CH4D still supports the parts. as the models get older there maybe no parts available . I had an early model When It runs its great . When it stops . it's a problem. primer dirt and bad cases are a problem . auto priming was also a problem
Sal

[DeputyDog25]

if it's a Mark 5 CH4D still supports the parts. as the models get older there maybe no parts available . I had an early model When It runs its great . When it stops . it's a problem. primer dirt and bad cases are a problem . auto priming was also a problem
Sal


Thanks Sal, I did happen to find an older thread about this press and it reflected what you are saying, when they are tuned properly they are great, but when not, they are a pain in the hiney. I think I will pass on the press, don't need any more headaches than I already have.

[Steve Steven]

I have had two of these presses, latest one I bought used in .38spl with most of the parts to convert to .45ACP. I had to buy a lee crimp die to complete the dies, took a few small parts from the .38 carrier to complete the .45 carrier and it was good to go. Made several primer tubes ftom 1/4" K&S tubing from the hobby shop, made an adapter to use Lee powder hoppers (AutoChamp one was badly clouded up). With a bit of tuning, its worked very well, no harder than a Lee Loadmaster press to set it up. I have made a few mods to help it work for me.

The one in the photo looks to be a MK4 or earlier, which CH still supports. Looks to be missing the primer tube, primer catcher bottle and I'm not sure what the piece on the left of the photo is.

I would put the value to me at $150, unless there are more parts to it than shown.

Steve

[DeputyDog25]

I have had two of these presses, latest one I bought used in .38spl with most of the parts to convert to .45ACP. I had to buy a lee crimp die to complete the dies, took a few small parts from the .38 carrier to complete the .45 carrier and it was good to go. Made several primer tubes ftom 1/4" K&S tubing from the hobby shop, made an adapter to use Lee powder hoppers (AutoChamp one was badly clouded up). With a bit of tuning, its worked very well, no harder than a Lee Loadmaster press to set it up. I have made a few mods to help it work for me.

The one in the photo looks to be a MK4 or earlier, which CH still supports. Looks to be missing the primer tube, primer catcher bottle and I'm not sure what the piece on the left of the photo is.

I would put the value to me at $150, unless there are more parts to it than shown.

Steve


Thank you Steve, I can pick it up relatively cheap, probably for about $75 or so, just didn't know if that would be throwing money away or not. I think with my limited knowledge of the press I will probably pass on it. I appreciate your response though.

[W.R.Buchanan]

DD: That one is definitely a PASS! First it is serial #0397 and is a Mark 1 which is a very early one. Second it only has 3 stations which means you would have to seat and crimp in the same operation.

Third it is not in very good condition and would need to be completely disassembled, cleaned up and reassembled.

They are a little touchy to get to run right, but when you do they can make lots of ammo fast. No problem getting 600 per hour out of one. They are best dedicated to one caliber as changeover is a PITA. Some parts are still available from C&H.

Here is what a good one looks like.

Randy

[DeputyDog25]

Nice looking machine. I appreciate the advice also. I had pretty much made up my mind to pass on it, as I don't really know enough about them to tackle a project of that magnitude. I will keep my open for one like yours.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you do decide on one look for a Mark 5 which was the latest version. I sold the one I had (a MK4) to "Seagiant" here at the site and he has several of them. RCBS also produced a version of this machine called the "Green Machine."

The original outfit that produced this basic design was called Buchanan Machine. No relation to me or my shop,,, Buchanan Precision Machine.

Randy

[gwpercle]

Call up the nice folks at CH-4D and talk to them about future parts availability. They are nice and a big help. I have an Eagle Cobra 3 in 1 press they had parts needed to get it back in use. Was a joy to deal with them.
Who knows , parts may not be a problem and they may even have upgrade parts for it. They had parts for the Cobra!
That's an awesome looking loader and should be back in use. I would be sorely tempted to get it and try to get her going again.
Gary

[DeputyDog25]

Call up the nice folks at CH-4D and talk to them about future parts availability. They are nice and a big help. I have an Eagle Cobra 3 in 1 press they had parts needed to get it back in use. Was a joy to deal with them.
Who knows , parts may not be a problem and they may even have upgrade parts for it. They had parts for the Cobra!
That's an awesome looking loader and should be back in use. I would be sorely tempted to get it and try to get her going again.
Gary

I really like the looks of it myself, looks to be built like a tank! If I can get it at the right price, I might just pick it up to tinker with it, if I can't get it going again then could probably sell it to someone just for parts. Thanks for your input Gary.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Buy it and have some fun! The good people at CH4D will help you out! Hey Randy, that machine looks familiar!!!

[W.R.Buchanan]

DD: now if you could get that machine for $50 I'd say do it. It will clean up, but it will have to be taken completely apart and every part individually addressed. Realistically I see about 8 hours of wire wheel and scotch brite wheel work.

However when you got done you would essentially have a new machine since they were made out of materials that just don't go away, and respond well to just being taken apart and cleaned.

The machine is setup for Semi Rimmed cartridges as it sits. Like .38/357 or .44Spec/Mag or .45 LC. If you just want to reload those types of cartridges then all you have to do is change the dies out and readjust the guide rails for the new cartridge.

If you want to load rimless cartridges such as .45 ACP or 9mm then you will have to have another set of guide rails.

These Machines do not lend themselves to readily being changed over to other calibers. They are best set up for one load/cartridge and left that way. The changeover is realistically about 2 hours, or if you know what you are doing, maybe less. These machines were absolutely the ship for loading .38's and .45 ACP's back in the day, and the guys who were shooting bowling pins used them a lot.

These machines can pump out the ammo! 500-600/ hour is easily obtainable once the machine is up and running smooth.

I bought the one in the pic above off Ebay and got a pretty good deal. It was setup for .38/.357 when I got it so I ordered the other guide rails for Rimless Cases and set it up for .40 S&W. I added the Carousel Case Feeder later which is pretty inexpensive.

My machine (now Greg's Machine) was a Mark 4 and had four stations which allowed for separate bullet seating and crimping operations.

Dave at C&H still supports these machines since there is more than 5000 out there. The parts are not expensive relatively speaking and are made very well so they don't go away. I could easily see a machine loading a million rounds with no major parts wearing out.

The machines had only one design flaw as far as I was concerned, and that was the way the machine returns the case advancing bar with a spring. It snaps back so hard that powder is spilled out of the just charged case. The easy fix is to simply put your finger over the mouth of the case as it is moving........

I did design a mechanical advance system for the machine but never built it. Be a good project for some junior machinist with some spare time.

Randy

[DeputyDog25]

Thanks for the feedback Randy, I believe the cheapest I can get the press for is $150. I think that might be too high considering the condition and what may or may not be -with the press. I am going to keep my out for one though, as I really think I want one of these to set-up specifically for .38/.357. If you happen to know or come to know someone who has one for sale please keep me in mind. Thanks again Randy.

Scott

[W.R.Buchanan]

Scott:$150 is way too much for a first gen machine. Like I said $50 is about all I'd go, maybe $75 but no more.

There are too many nice ones out there.

Randy

[seagiant]

Scott:$150 is way too much for a first gen machine. Like I said $50 is about all I'd go, maybe $75 but no more.

There are too many nice ones out there.Randy

Hi,
I don't have a pic,but the last MK5 I bought was at the last gun show I attended for $100 dollars! It was missing the original powder measure and had a RCBS uniflow fitted on there instead. I pulled the RCBS got the parts that were missing from RCBS and sold it to a friend for $50! I think I did ok and will get what I need for the loader from Dave at CH4D, and get it in close to original configeration before it is over.

As I've said before, these machines are for people that enjoy tinkering on their machines and are not for the "plug and play" crowd!!!

[seagiant]

Hi,
Wait! I do have a pic of my $100 MK5!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: I notice on that machine that the primer feed is completely different than a Mk4 Close ups please.

I was to understand that the primer feed on the Mk5 was the major improvement? Explain.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
I'm not home now,in the NW and going to work in Alaska next week! The MK5 used a collet that deposited a primer to the primer seater each time. The tube of primers were seperated from the priming operation this way! This was to "solve" the problem of setting off a stack of primers at one time. I guess someone did this with a MK4 and sued CH?

I took that system off and will set this machine up with the older MK4 system even if I have to make some parts! The MK5 collet system is junk to me and a solution looking for a problem and WAY less reliable in feeding the primer! Hope this addresses some of your questions!

Oh yea,I tried the original primer set up and thought it a hasty made up design (which it is!) that doesn't really work that well???

[MtGun44]

Good old machines in their day, but all my friends that used to
run them have switched to Dillons (550s or 650s) and never
regretted it. Most said it worked fine when clean, lubed and
adjusted but was much fussier and sensitive to dirt than a
Dillon.

Unless the price is really low and you enjoy a challenge, buy a
Dillon 550.

Also, beware of the priming system on the pre-MkV units (I think that
is when they went to the two stage primer feed) - several friends blew
up a whole tube of primers, and they did not have an armor tube around
the early ones, IIRC. Never owned one but had several friends with them
and ran them a few times. Later machines only had one or two primers
at the seating station and picked up a new one from the feed tube each
cycle. Much safer than the original design.

Bill

[GrantA]

Wow! I was watching the same eBay auction, wasn't going to mention that out of respect for the OP, this press just sold for $221 plus shipping

[seagiant]

Hi,
Jeez...I think you guys are wandering off the Reservation again! It's not what loader is best,it's what you want to play with and have fun with (like other things in life!)

Just about ALL progressive reloaders use a priming system like the CH Auto Champ MK4! Dillon,Hornady,Star,ect,ect. This is a stack of primers being fed to a "shuttle" bar that picks up a primer and moves it under the primer pocket of a brass case held by a shellplate and then a primer punch raises to seat the primer in the brass case primer pocket! That's it! Finished!

No matter which press you use,YOU have to supply the brains. Just like shooting a gun or driving a car! As said before these inline loaders are not for everyone but are quite fun when tuned right and will drown you in loaded ammo at the bench!

Below is one I'd really like to play with!

[GrantA]

No doubt seagiant, if I had another one already setup I'm sure I'd run up bids on an extra. Presses get lonely on the bench!

[starreloader]

I still have my CH Mark 1, serial number 0212.. It served me well and made many 1000's of 38 ammo on it years ago... The Mark 1 and 4 STARS now rest on a shelf and are all retired... As long as I kept the CH clean and lubed it worked well. Can't say I ever really had a problem with it.

[DeputyDog25]

Wow! I was watching the same eBay auction, wasn't going to mention that out of respect for the OP, this press just sold for $221 plus shipping


No problem whatsoever mentioning it. I emailed the seller with a question or two and they answered my questions and I then started asking questions here so I would know whether or not I wanted to bid on it, I was making a guess on what I felt I could get it for based on what the seller had told me when answering my questions. I would just bet that the seller about fell over when it went as high as it did.

[15bobcat]

Randy: Could you tell us a source for the carousel case feeder that's on your Auto-Champ? I've seen it on other ones, but do not see it on the CH website.

Thanks, Harold

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you call Dave at C&H he has the parts to make the Carousel. There isn't much to it, the rotating base has a spigot that inserts in place of the single plastic tube. You get 6 pieces of plastic tube with it. I think it was like $25-30.

Thanks for the info Greg and you better stop by here on your way back!

It seems, if I understand what you said correctly, that the primer dispenser work similar to the one on a Pacific Shotshell loader? Where each time the platens come together the little collet is opened by a tapered spud and drops a primer into the shuttle?

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
That is correct! However even though I had brand new collets I could not get it to work to my satisfaction and as you know this is not my first rodeo! The other thing is I do not think Dave is making anymore of the collets as most people see as I do it is an ad-hoc affair and go back to the primer tube on the base of the machine!

If it worked as good as the Pacific/Hornady 366 primer feed,then great, but it did not for me?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Now on to that return trip to FL? You're coming thru LAX right?

Ojai is about 75 miles north and they actually have Rental cars available at the airport. :bigsmyl2:

Randy

[seagiant]

Now on to that return trip to FL? You're coming thru LAX right?

Ojai is about 75 miles north and they actually have Rental cars available at the airport. :bigsmyl2:
Randy

Hi,
Ha! Ha! You're killing me! You know I'd love to! I'm on my way to Alaska for a few weeks Monday! Yes,I know about rental cars at LAX!!!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'm going for Mexican Food now. You could have came along,,, but NO,,, You're in a motel somewhere instead.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi,
Buen provecho! Senor!

[W.R.Buchanan]

It was good you missed it!

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi,
Thanks! All I had was a hot dog! Well...I guess we've done it again!

[15bobcat]

Post #18 seagiant
"I took that system off and will set this machine up with the older MK4 system even if I have to make some parts! The MK5 collet system is junk to me and a solution looking for a problem and WAY less reliable in feeding the primer!"

I also have a MK 5A with that collet system. I called Beth at CH-4D and asked her what parts would be involved with the conversion. She said the #AC131 Primer stud @$4.47ea., tell them for a MK4 and which size primer. The #132 Primer Stud Nut @$2.24ea if needed. The #123 Primer Collet Nut is the same thread size as the Primer stud, so you could use it on top of the stud. They still have the #AC145 Primer Tube Shields @$9.99ea.
Thank you Greg.


Post #29 W.R.Buchanan
"If you call Dave at C&H he has the parts to make the Carousel. There isn't much to it, the rotating base has a spigot that inserts in place of the single plastic tube. You get 6 pieces of plastic tube with it. I think it was like $25-30."

I ordered the Case Carousel from Beth last week #AC146 @$40.00ea, still a great price.
Thank you Randy.

Would like to thank everyone who posts on this forum for sharing your knowledge and experience.

Thanks again to everyone
-Harold

[seagiant]

Hi Harold,
I apoligize for getting off course there in the thread. Glad the people at CH4D could help you out. Just take it easy when you start using the machine and get used to it!

[15bobcat]

Hi Greg,

No apology needed. If anything it just reinforced what I had already thought about the system. I didn't want to see you make parts for yours, when they are still available.

Thanks again for your help both now and in the future.

-Harold