Trouble with .30 Carbine

[jrayborn]

The trouble is that I have about 3 gallons of once or twice etc. fired military brass I need to process. A lot of the brass has a pretty good bulge at the base that the sizing die doesn't get completely out. Is that an issue to anyone as long as it chambers?

And how many of ya'll trim all your cases? I plan to just size and trim every case to 1.280 and then chamfer both ends. Good plan? I have loaded a bunch before I knew better and haven't trimmed them, but I think I am convinced it's the proper thing to do.

[BruceB]

Usually the tolerances in the Carbines *I* have used, along with the tolerances in a wide variety of different case types, have mot required trimming of cases. Carbines are not typically high-precision rifles, and I've seen no benefit to trimming as long as functioning is normal.

BUT.... that's just me, and it is likely a good idea to at least check all cases for whatever maximum length you decide upon.... if a case is over that length, trim it.

If the bulged cases have been full-length sized (meaning the sizing die contacted the shell-holder), I would load a number of the most-bulged cases and try them for function in YOUR firearm. If they function through the gun, no problem, and all you have is a cosmetic issue.

What do you mean by, "chamfer both ends"? Chamfering the case mouth is certainly needed IF the case has been trimmed, but even military Carbine brass does NOT have crimped primers, meaning that chamfering the primer pocket is not needed.

[gew98]

I have had this problem with 30 carbine and 9mm alot. Glocks and HK's can really fark up brass for reloading this way . When I had a couple automags in 30 carbine they did this to the brass ALOT. I usually take such brass if so deformed after sizing and pitch it. . I just don't trust brass that stressed. I even encountered a bunch of once fired 5,56 from my local range that when attempting to reload it had the same unsightly bulge/bump......someone had an AR with issues !.

[jrayborn]

Yes, I meant chamfering the case mouth and primer pocket. I know the primers weren't staked in but it makes priming a bit easier with a small corner break.

[reed1911]

So long as you are using a carbine, I would not trim the brass unless you have a very wide array of lengths. Accuracy wise I doubt you will notice a difference, what you will find is that if you set up the die to crimp on a long case your short ones will not crimp, and vice versa your long ones will be bulged. So it really depends on how long the difference is. I have cases I've re-loaded about 5 times that still do not need trimming, but I generally load them on a single stage so I end up feeling the seat/crimp and can spot a long case pretty easy.

[jimb16]

I shoot the carbine a lot. Cases need to be trimmed or you can run into serious problems. Trim to 1.285. Max should be 1.290. Carbine cases tend to stretch very quickly. If not kept at or below max length, you can have serious headspace problems since the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. As far as the "bulge" goes, that is common for reloaded carbine cases and normally doesn't effect the useability of the case unless you have a very tight chamber.

[dale2242]

My carbine must have a minimum chamber as any brass over 1.290 will not fully chamber.
I set my calipers at 1.290 and check all brass before reloading and trim any over that length....dale

[zomby woof]

I set my calipers at 1.290 and check all brass before reloading and trim any over that length....dale

I do this as well. Seeing that trimming these cases are a pain, it's best to sort first. I set mine at 1.286. I seem to get fewer and fewer as I go through my lot of brass.

[leadman]

I trim my cases just 'cuz.
A carbine can surprise one with the accuracy if fed good bullets and powder charges. I have one with a 4X scope on it and with the Sierra 110gr JHP with 14.5grs of W296 it will shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. Does very well also with the Lee 113gr RFN GC with a light charge of WC820.
My other carbine will still shoot cast into 3" most days at 100 yards. It has an Ultimak handguard replacement with a scope rail on it and a 2X Weaver scope in place.

[jrayborn]

Originally I have been sizing with a Dillon carbide F/L sizing die. There were a lot of cases that had a bulge the Dillon die didn't size out. I mean a lot.

I just got the RCBS steel F/L sizing die and resized the cases again and a lot of the bulges are gone. The worst of them have a small "wrinkle" of brass at the base where it actually swaged it down. Not many though and I will scrap them out. What a big difference a die makes.

Anyway, so far about 3k pieces sized, and trimmed. Now just need to be chamfered. My fingers hurt.

[BruceB]

Does anyone among us know of a maker of .30 Carbine cartridge gauges?

This is a gauge which can be used to check the finished rounds for proper dimensions. The cartridge is dropped into it, and the gauge indicates whether or not all dimensions, including length, are correct.

It has maximum/minimum headspace indication by way of a shoulder across the base of the gauge, and if headspace is correct the head of the cartridge will be between the max/min surfaces of the gauge base.

At the same time, if the mouth of the case protrudes from the front of the gauge, the case needs trimming.

I have quite a few of these gauges in various calibers, including 9mm and .45 ACP, which means they are manufactured for SOME straight-case applications.... but I can't find one listed for .30 Carbine.

All my ammo for ANY autoloading firearm I own is run through these gauges, also including 5.56 and 7.62 NATO, .30-06, etc etc..... but not .30 Carbine due to lack of the gauge.

L.E. Wilson calls this a "Cartridge Case Gauge" (on the boxes the gauges come in).

[500MAG]

Does anyone among us know of a maker of .30 Carbine cartridge gauges?

This is a gauge which can be used to check the finished rounds for proper dimensions. The cartridge is dropped into it, and the gauge indicates whether or not all dimensions, including length, are correct.

It has maximum/minimum headspace indication by way of a shoulder across the base of the gauge, and if headspace is correct the head of the cartridge will be between the max/min surfaces of the gauge base.

At the same time, if the mouth of the case protrudes from the front of the gauge, the case needs trimming.

I have quite a few of these gauges in various calibers, including 9mm and .45 ACP, which means they are manufactured for SOME straight-case applications.... but I can't find one listed for .30 Carbine.

All my ammo for ANY autoloading firearm I own is run through these gauges, also including 5.56 and 7.62 NATO, .30-06, etc etc..... but not .30 Carbine due to lack of the gauge.

L.E. Wilson calls this a "Cartridge Case Gauge" (on the boxes the gauges come in).
right here
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/234644/le-wilson-case-length-gage-30-carbine
I have one for all my semiautos.

[BruceB]

Thanks for the link.

I had actually seen that gauge listed, but you will note that it says, "case LENGTH gauge".

On the Wilson 9mm and .45 ACP gauges, the loaded cartridge is dropped into the gauge and is supposed to fit FLUSH with the base of the gauge. The overall length of the gauge itself is the maximum loaded length for a CARTRIDGE, and the gauge is useless for checking CASE length.

I might have to get the .30 Carbine gauge from Midway, just to see if it's of any use to me. I'll have an order going to them soon.

Incidentally, I just test-loaded 100 .30 Carbine rounds with the Hornady 90-grain hollowpoint XTP PISTOL bullet, and it seems promising. All the "normal" 110-grain .30 Carbine bullets are very difficult to find right now, and the .30 XTP looks like a useful stop-gap. They are "available" from Midway..

It should be a literal bomb on small game, traveling at around 2100-2200fps instead of its designed velocity of around maybe 1300 fps from handguns. Larry Gibson sees them as a wonderful coyote bullet in the Carbine..... I would agree.

Still, I NEED to get some 311359 bullets cast, so that I can do some Carbine shooting in volume.

[500MAG]

Thanks for the link.

I had actually seen that gauge listed, but you will note that it says, "case LENGTH gauge".

On the Wilson 9mm and .45 ACP gauges, the loaded cartridge is dropped into the gauge and is supposed to fit FLUSH with the base of the gauge. The overall length of the gauge itself is the maximum loaded length for a CARTRIDGE, and the gauge is useless for checking CASE length.

I might have to get the .30 Carbine gauge from Midway, just to see if it's of any use to me. I'll have an order going to them soon.

Incidentally, I just test-loaded 100 .30 Carbine rounds with the Hornady 90-grain hollowpoint XTP PISTOL bullet, and it seems promising. All the "normal" 110-grain .30 Carbine bullets are very difficult to find right now, and the .30 XTP looks like a useful stop-gap. They are "available" from Midway..

It should be a literal bomb on small game, traveling at around 2100-2200fps instead of its designed velocity of around maybe 1300 fps from handguns. Larry Gibson sees them as a wonderful coyote bullet in the Carbine..... I would agree.

Still, I NEED to get some 311359 bullets cast, so that I can do some Carbine shooting in volume.
I didn't even notice that. I just got a 30 carbine last year and had so much ammo already that I haven't even loaded for it yet. Had the case gauge on my buy list. That will be interesting to see. I always recommend those gauges. I have never had an issue when the finished round fits in them flush and I check about every 10 rounds while I'm reloading.

[jrayborn]

I'd love to find one as well. If you get it and it works out, please let us know!

[Multigunner]

I test fired a carbine that had a habit of locking up tight about every sixth round. It locked up so tight you'd have to kick the op handle with your heel to open it.
I'd heard of that sort of jam but thats the first time I'd encountered a carbine that did this on a regular basis.
Examining the fired cases about one in six were .006 longer than the rest.
I tried a different box of ammo and had no lock ups with it. The second box turned out to have the fake Chinese LC headstamps and berdan primers. The brass of those may have been harder than that of the first box that had all the jams.

I didn't have a bullet puller at the time so I couldn't mike unfired cases.

I found a hump in the middle of the right hand lug recess of the receiver and a matching divot in the right hand locking lug of the bolt.
I worked the hump in the recess down near flush with a white arkansas stone. After that there were no more lock ups with any brand of .30 carbine ammo.

[garandsrus]

Bruce,

I have that gauge but don't end up using it much. I think it is only for length.

John

[Harry O]

I have never had much problem with feeding .30 Carbine reloads in my Carbine. It has a pretty loose chamber. However, I bought a Marlin short-lever throw in .30 Carbine some years back (Model 62?). It had all kinds of problems with my reloads. I found out that the Marlin had a very tight chamber. Not undersized; just right on the minimum size.

I ended up reserving all my existing reloads for the Carbine and loaded up some new ones for the Marlin. First thing was to trim all the cases to the minimum trim length. It had problems with as little as 0.001" over the maximum case length. Then I conventionally sized them.

After than, I got a Lee sizer (because it was cheap) and removed the decapping pin. I also have a couple of case holders that have the center filled in so that the top of it is flat. I used that to push the case entirely into the sizer (after using plenty of case lube). Then I put a steel rod into the top of the resizer (to the bottom of the case) and punched the case out with a hammer. Then I loaded them conventionally. Never had a problem with the Marlin with those.