Stinking chronograph

[44man]

Shot 12 shots across my Pact today with out a single reading, Tried moving it up and down and made sure I was lined up.
I brought it up and took the sensors apart, washed the lenses with cleaner and checked wire continuity. Plugged it in and I can read a hand wave across it. Must have been dust.

[357maximum]

Must have been a loose wire going to the flux capacitor...might wanna solder that connection up, or who knows what could happen. :lol:

[kevmc]

Using diffusers???

Might have been the angle of the sunlight to the sensors.....shade vs direct light...

You may laugh , but try changing the direction you're shooting/ligh angle on the unit...

[tazman]

Using diffusers???

Might have been the angle of the sunlight to the sensors.....shade vs direct light...
You may laugh , but try changing the direction you're shooting/ligh angle on the unit...

I had that very problem with my chrony a few days ago. Turned the unit a little so the sun wasn't directly on the sensors and it worked fine after that.

[runfiverun]

in bright sunlight I sometimes have issues with mine picking up a boolit [especially the little ones]
I keep one of those campaign signs handy and tape it on top of the screens to diffuse the light like it's a cloudy day.
it helps the readers see the shadow of the boolit better.
if the sun is coming in at an angle and hitting the screens just so it washes everything out so sometimes I have to off-set the sign.

[376Steyr]

I like to check my Pact by firing a few shots with a .22 across it before I get serious, especially if I'm testing loads that use premium ($$) jacketed. Trying to use mine in the late evening, with the sun going horizontal across the screens, is an exercise in frustration.

[Hannibal]

in bright sunlight I sometimes have issues with mine picking up a boolit [especially the little ones]
I keep one of those campaign signs handy and tape it on top of the screens to diffuse the light like it's a cloudy day.

Well, now. I'm glad to hear someone came up with at least one thing those are good for. :Bright idea:

[runfiverun]

they are great target umm 'holders' too....

[62chevy]

they are great target umm 'holders' too....

Guil... mmm seen a few folks use them for targets. [smilie=1:

[KYCaster]

I gave up trying to use the chronograph in sunlight.....just too many issues.

I built a box with 40w incandescent bulbs spaced 24" apart to hang over the chrono. Keep the chrono shaded and it works every time.

I've considered building a permanent box to hold the chrono and two LED flash lights about 18" above the sensors with ~8" dia. holes in each end to shoot through. Could make it reasonably portable and wouldn't have to worry about wasting ammo trying to get a good reading.

Jerry

[Bullwolf]

they are great target umm 'holders' too....

I actually used the Chrono as a target holder a couple of months ago.

Went and pinned a commercial target onto the back diffuser for an aiming point. Can use wooden clothes pins, or some plastic clips. Not sure why I never thought of doing this before.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105260&d=1403162857&thumb=1

The really professional move though, as you can see through the target paper on the bottom is the 2 pieces of duct tape holding the target to the diffuser rods.

It worked, for a while. Paper trash didn't give me bad readings or anything like that. However if it was windy at all, I would have just created a giant sail to blow the chronograph over with.

Unfortunately as the sun moved in the sky, the errors started to pop up.

I was trying to work up some loads using Alliant's Steel powder in 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum at the time. Link below with my results if you're curious.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?242134-Alliant-Steel

After I had written down most of the 357 Magnum data, I got a bunch of errors while trying to read the 44 Magnum loads. I assume that the sun, or a cloud moved in the sky or something along those lines.

I like doing my pistol chronograph work indoors better. Just put the chronograph inside the barn with a bright artificial light hanging over it. My readings are more reliable that way (fewer ERRORS) but it's more of a hassle to set the chronograph up inside.


- Bullwolf

[357maximum]

I must be the true odd duck here.

I work my loads for "theoretical" speed (gleaned from as many sources as possible) for the application at hand while concentrating purely on accuracy of the paper target while working a load. When I am 100% totally happy with THAT LOAD for THAT GUN from a pure accuracy standpoint, then and only then do I run em over a chrony to see what I got. If it is close to my "theoretical FPS goal" I call it THEE LOAD. If it is too far off then I start again, all the while knowing I have a good accurate load that may simply not be where I wanted it FPS wise. I call it THE BACKUP LOAD and smile that I have a really accurate "backup". My "theoretical FPS load" has been off but just a very few times and has held a few bonus fps surprises btw. I normally start with massive amounts of compared J-word data to get my "theoretical" load for rifles.

Am I thee only one that does it this way?????? SERIOUSLY I WANNA KNOW

Whats the point of clocking an innaccurate load??

[Artful]

I must be the true odd duck here.

I work my loads for "theoretical" speed (gleaned from as many sources as possible) for the application at hand while concentrating purely on accuracy of the paper target while working a load.

When I am 100% totally happy with THAT LOAD for THAT GUN from a pure accuracy standpoint, then and only then do I run em over a chrony to see what I got.

Am I thee only one that does it this way?????? SERIOUSLY I WANNA KNOW

Whats the point of clocking an innaccurate load??

Well being you can shoot for accuracy and speed at the same time - why not do both?
Some of the loads I do I am not looking for just accuracy, some have to be at or below
a specific velocity and the extreme spread must be between certain limits.

Not always but sometime I notice that some loads with a low extreme spread show better
accuracy than one showing an erratic spread - which sometimes show unexplained flyers.

Oh, and some of the mod's I have tried
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/th_chrony6.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Misc/chrony6.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/th_chrony2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Misc/chrony2.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/th_chrony3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Misc/chrony3.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/th_chrony5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Misc/chrony5.jpg.html)

Now I see if my buddy with his new magnetospeed chronograph wants to go shootin
http://www.magnetospeed.com/

[357maximum]

Well being you can shoot for accuracy and speed at the same time - why not do both?
/


Thats fine if you have the ability. I DO NOT, my brain will not allow good groups over a chronagraph with me at the helm. You see maybe it is just me, but I found a system that works...for me. Maybe everyone else does it different because i am the one with the handicap and cannot multi-task in that particular fashion.....I can live with that, in fact have been for 40 years. :lol: Different perspective of the same view...gotta love that...THANK YOU

[olafhardt]

My contest to see who has accidentally shot his crony is only open to accidental crony shots however the crony need not be killed. Wounded is ok. Shots fired in anger are not permitted but may be reported.

[Bullwolf]

I must be the true odd duck here.

I work my loads for "theoretical" speed (gleaned from as many sources as possible) for the application at hand while concentrating purely on accuracy of the paper target while working a load. When I am 100% totally happy with THAT LOAD for THAT GUN from a pure accuracy standpoint, then and only then do I run em over a chrony to see what I got. If it is close to my "theoretical FPS goal" I call it THEE LOAD. If it is too far off then I start again, all the while knowing I have a good accurate load that may simply not be where I wanted it FPS wise. I call it THE BACKUP LOAD and smile that I have a really accurate "backup". My "theoretical FPS load" has been off but just a very few times and has held a few bonus fps surprises btw. I normally start with massive amounts of compared J-word data to get my "theoretical" load for rifles.

Am I thee only one that does it this way?????? SERIOUSLY I WANNA KNOW

Whats the point of clocking an innaccurate load??

My take on things 357maximum, is that accuracy and velocity are often two different and sometimes separate goals.

Do I have a few shade tree loads I worked up without the help of the chronograph? Yes, of course. While working up a load I often could care less about its velocity if it functions well.

Since I do not have access to pressure testing equipment, I tend to use a cartridge's velocity to give me an idea of where I am at pressure wise. Compare the FPS with established load data, or a base line factory load. When velocity increases, you can safely assume a corresponding increase in pressure comes along with it.

If a mild practice load shows itself to be accurate, I don't care how fast it's going. My load work up is done. Since I don't shoot in competitions that require a power factor, if the accuracy is there, (assuming the load functions, feeds, cycles etc.) my work is finished, and I'm quite happy.

Working on a load intended for a hunting application, I am more likely to go with a heavier slow boolit, or a larger caliber, than try to "hot rod" a smaller one. With cast boolits one often, but not always seems to find that happy accuracy spot at less than the maximum velocity for the caliber.

When a very mild load doesn't function or shoot well, I start to warm things up in an attempt to get it to work better. That's about the time I like to pull out the chronograph to see just where I am at. If I get a sharp unexpected increase in velocity, it's time to stop and try something different.

Sometimes it's quite educational and even fun to look at the ES, SD and watch velocity increases or decreases with changes like using a different powder, primer, seating depth, lube, case, crimp or even a different barrel length.

I am going to suggest that 357maximum is probably an extremely experienced individual when it comes to working up a load. He readily understands powder burn rates, and can predict how certain powders are likely to act with a specific cartridge from looking at a plethora of established load data, and a fair amount of personal trial and experience.

Not everyone out there has this level of expertise. Many are outright scared to death to try something other than exactly following the established recipe with the load data already printed out in a specific range in front of them.

If they have a different cartridge length, boolit weight, or design than the recipe lists, they simply don't know what to do next. Never start out with a max load. When in doubt, reduce and work up your load. You can use jacketed data to get a good starting point for cast. All things being equal a heavier weight boolit start load in the same caliber is often safe for use with a lighter one, but not the other way around. A boolit that gets seated deeper will show a corresponding increase in pressure, and so on.

I've seen this question asked so many times in different variations on the board. Is X amount of powder still safe if I seat the boolit deeper so that it will pass a plunk test in my barrel? The answer is often the same. Follow established safe reloading procedure. Reduce the load 10% and then re-work the load up to see for yourself.

Not knocking anyone in particular here, but some folks just do not extrapolate things very well on their own. I can think of a few individuals who I wouldn't want to stand next to while they try out something new. A chronograph gives you something else that you can measure, (velocity) rather than just operating on blind feel. I tend to feel somewhat lost without one.




- Bullwolf

[44man]

I just wanted to see what the 30-30 boolit is doing. It was overcast out, no sun. That is usually when I get readings. Have a new battery too.
I guess I need a million micro farad flux capacitor! :bigsmyl2:

[tazman]

Bullwolf........ A lot of good information and ideas in that post.

I spent the last 7 months working up loads for my 9mm without the benefit of a chronograph. I just recently acquired one so now I am able to test exactly where my loads are speed wise.
Before the chrono it was all accuracy and function.
The hardest part was not having standard pistol powders available, and only a very few shotgun powders. It was necessary to make a lot of assumptions about powders(remember the quote about assumptions!). Non the less, I kept at it until I got the loads working with the pistol like I felt they should be. When I got the chrono, it turned out that my loads were right where they needed to be.
I guess this experience just confirms the process for working up loads since I started low and increased until I got the function and accuracy I wanted.
I posted some of my results recently in another thread.
I guess necessity(lack of powder) can be the mother of invention.

[44man]

I was not shooting for a group, just hung a target at 50 yards. Too much fiddling trying to get over the screens but all 12 shots went into 7/8".
The crazy thing was, they hit the exact same elevation as they do at 100 yards. There might be 1/4" difference.

[357maximum]

Bullwolf

You are alot closer in that synopsis than you might guess, but accuracy is always a goal for most I hope.

I grew up handloading with my Dad and he was a mild form of wildcatter (not the full blown whackadill type). Working up to a known from an unknown just ain't that hard if you are smart about what you are doing I guess. Follow the golden rule of handloading, start low, work up everytime you make a change...seems a pretty simple rule to follow.

I did not have the internet when I started playing with cast, no cast specific books either. The golden rule of handloading got me through my ignorance. I am actually glad I did not go into cast with pre-conceived notions......them things are anchors.

The "deliar"/chronagraph is a diagnostic/measuring tool, not an artificial limb...but that is just how I see it. Others will disagree....that is fine. I am disagreed with alot...no biggie.


JIM...that elevation thing you noted is quite common, at least I see it alot more than one would think, especially in my long barreled single shot "pistols".

I can shoot for groups or I can chronograph, cannot do both at the same time....gave up trying, it is what it is and I be what I be apparently. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE..... for me.

[357maximum]

I guess I need a million micro farad flux capacitor! :bigsmyl2:

I hear they have them that run off veggie/compost/waste now Jim....think green :lol:

[country gent]

One thing I got in the habit of doing when chronographing loads was to use my RWS pellet gun and a select group of pellets to check the set up start and finish of session 5 rds at start tells me the set up is good and working 5 rounds when done tells me nothing has changed. A spring piston air gun with the exact same pellets is very consistent. I had bead blasted a sheet of plexiglass to cover my screens to give good non direct light. Seemed to work. A piece of frosted plastic for bathroom windows or shower doors would work also.

[44man]

I hear they have them that run off veggie/compost/waste now Jim....think green :lol:
Is that stuff from Obumbler?

[357maximum]

Is that stuff from Obumbler?


I said think green, not stop thinking entirely :lol: Obummer is another one of them bullies that force his will on others, do not get me started.

[BABore]

Jim,

You can stop them faulty readings by aiming about 6-7 inches low.:bigsmyl2:

[btroj]

But that only works once......

[BABore]

Yes, but it's permanent!

[Static line]

I like to check my Pact by firing a few shots with a .22 across it before I get serious, especially if I'm testing loads that use premium ($$) jacketed. Trying to use mine in the late evening, with the sun going horizontal across the screens, is an exercise in frustration.
+1 on that. I do the same with my rimfire. Also,I had some issues with my Pact PC 2 not reading also one day and all it was,was a little accumulated dust on the sensors.I've had my chono for as long as there were only two to choose from,Pact or the very expensive other one," O ". I wrap bandannas around the sensors for dust covers.I also tape the wires to the rail so they do not just hang from the unit and put needless wear at the connection.Handle wires with care when storing them.I use velcro to tie them in place along the rail for storage.I really like my Pact.It's been a good one.

[44man]

You guys crack me up! [smilie=l:, Yeah thought about aiming low.
I just made some new screen covers from some plastic sheeting I had, buffed them with Scotch Brite. need to try today. Might even out the light better.
A question was asked of me about accuracy and ES readings. The gentleman did not want to step on my post but it is OK.
I never use the chrono to work loads, only to see what I have once accuracy is found. I prefer to work loads first and many times the largest ES is more accurate. The thing is a distraction to me. I also hate to set it up. Look across it and tweak it a thousand times. In the heat and bugs, I just want to shoot, find what I want and get it over with.
The 30-30 Marlin is proving to give me groups of 1" and under at 100 with cast. A friend gave me a box of Sierra 125 gr flat nose HP's but I don't know what to do with them. I don't hunt with a rifle and I sure would not use these bullets on deer. Be like running a deer through a wringer washer! :bigsmyl2:

[10mmShooter]

Here is how I setup, I rarely have issues with error reading, chrono'd about 150 rounds yesterday from 10mm/.357.41/.44 and .308 and only had 3 bad readings

110845

[44man]

I got all readings today. Shot the 30-30 Marlin And got this;
150 RCBS with 18 gr of 4759.Hu 1873 .5 fps, low 1830.2, SD 17.7, Mad 13.8, ES 43.3 and ave was 1850 fps.
My 187 with 3031 was high 1903 fps, low 1873. SD 21.7, Mad 15.4, ES 30.8 and ave 1888.4. I did get over 1900 with a few shots.
4895 was Hi at 1760.1, low 1684 .9, SD 30.8, Mad at 23.7, ES 75.2 and ave at 1710.2
The target shows the 4759 loads out but the hole in the center was both 3031 and 4895, 50 yards111024

[44man]

Strange 4759 was not good with the 150 RCBS, all info I have shows it was the best powder. I need to work 3031 with it, it is the right size at .311".
Feels kind of good to see a hole just get larger with the two other powders.
Frosting on the cake is with a home made mold.
I am seeing 3031 the perfect fit. I have worked every other powder that can be used and some loads guys post, like 4227, etc, were so sad, I quit trying.
I really do try what you fellas say.
You can see that the smallest SD did not mean much.