A Dumb Question In Regards To Mixing BP Lube for Cartridges . . .

[bedbugbilly]

This will probably seem like a real dumb question but I'll ask it anyway . . . .

For lube for my muzzleloading, I have always mixed the wax from one toilet bowl ring with 1 pound of Crisco . . . melted together in microwave, mix well and pour in to old musket cap tins - no muss, no fuss and NO MEASURING. This creates what I would call a "soft lube" - great for patching material, smearing over loaded BP revolver cylinders, minie ball bases, etc.

I am loading 38 spl. with BP - using a 358-311 160 grain cast boolit with one lube groove. I want to make a "stiffer" lube than what I've been using. So . . . .

I have looked at the various formulas . . . for example

50% natural beeswax
40% Crisco
10% Canola Oil

but . . . while it gives percentages . . . what are we talking about here? Are we talking weight or raw materials. I.E. 5 ounces of beeswax, 4 ounces of Crisco and 1 ounce of Canola Oil with the beeswax /Crisco / Canola Oil weighed in their normal form?

Or are we talking "liquid measurement"? I.E. 5 cups melted beeswax, 4 cups melted Crisco and 1 cup of Conola Oil?

I can melt the beeswax and Crisco in a double boiler - measure out in warm form and combine the three . . . .

Or . . . I can weigh out the beeswax and Crisco in solid form - then melt and combine the Canola Oil with it.

What is the correct way to mixing the lube up? Will doing it by weight as opposed to liquid measurement make a big difference in the "consistency" of the lube? Will one way over the other make the final concoction more "soft" rather than "stiffer"?

I know everyone has their own "favorite formula" so I have just use the beeswax, Crisco and Conola Oil as an example. I keep running across various "formulas" for BP cartridge lube but I've never seen in what form the components are measured out - by weight, by liquid measurement, etc.

Many thanks.

[Bardo]

I have always understood lube formulas to be by weight not volume. I am interested in your results I am kind of in the same boat and have shoot very little in black powder cartridge. I may try

50% natural beeswax
40% Crisco
10% lanolin

I actually have tried felix lube with good accuracy and not bad fouling in pistols. Felix is all I use in smokeless.

Bardo

[Remmy4477]

I used the liquid measurment, 5, 4, 1 Seems to have worked for me as I really don't notice much differance between the SPG I was using and this concoction! It worked for me!

[montana_charlie]

For lube for my muzzleloading, I have always mixed the wax from one toilet bowl ring with 1 pound of Crisco . . .
Once upon a time toilet rings were made using a waste product from the honey industry, called beeswax.
When that was true, many black powder shooters turned to toilet rings for their bullet and patch lube needs, and knowledge of the practise has been passed down to today.

But today, beeswax is much too valuable for sealing toilets, so 'slack wax' is used to make them.
I'm not saying modern toilet rings aren't usable, but they aren't the same as they used to be.


I don't make lube very often, but when I do ... I use a two-cup Pyrex measuring cup to determine quantities.
Using it as the inner 'pot' in a double boiler setup, I melt enough of one ingredient to reach a marked level in the measuring cup.
Then I begin to melt the second ingredient, and add enough to bring the (liquified) mixture up to the next desired level.
More additions can be made if you didn't overestimate the amount of that first ingredient ... leaving you with insufficient capacity in a two-cup container to hold all of your lube.

CM

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks montana - appreciate the information.

Yea . . . toilet bowl wax rings aren't what they used to be. I've been shooting BP for 50 years and have used a lot of the old type toilet town wax rings for lube . . . as well as set more than my share of toilets using them. LOL :-) My folks and family owned a lumberyard for 75 + years - when we sold it, I kept a number of old stock toilet bowl rings for making lube. I've gone through them by now but I do have a nice 10 pound block of beeswax that I got from a local apiary and bee supply firm near us.

I'm going to rig up a double boiler to melt the components down and mix them. The first batch I'll do will be small and I think I'll try it by weight and see what happens. From what I'm gathering, I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference if it's done by weight or volume. I'll try it both ways though and see if the two batches "match" as far as "stiffness" (for want of a better works?).

I loaded up my first BP cartridges yesterday and ended up finger lubing the lube groove (I don't have a lubersizer) so I need to probably try pan lubing in order to be more efficient.

[smoked turkey]

bedbugbilly it sounds like you are not exactly "new" to homemade lubes or using blackpowder. I did detect you might me new to pan lubing. I have done it with pretty good results. I use either a round or square pan that was a cast off from the kitchen. I line them with wax paper to make reuse a little easier. There are a couple of people selling made to order "cake cutters" for cutting the cast out of the lube cake poured into the tins. They really make it so much easier to remove the boolits rather than punching them out with a dowel like I started with. Personally my cutters are those made by buckshot . He does a very nice job on them. I have no experience with anyone else. Give pan lubing a try. I think you will like it.

[bedbugbilly]

smoked turkey - thanks! You're right - I haven't tried pan lubing but it looks like I will be giving that a try when I mix up some new lube. I plan on getting a "cake cutter" for doing it - just need to get around and get one ordered. I appreciate the hint on the wax paper in the pan. I'd have probably thought of that . . . AFTER I poured the lube in the pan and figured out it would be much less of a mess had I lined the pan first! LOL

As far as BP substitutes . . . I can't see using them if I have the real stuff to load up BP cartridges. I still have a few cans of 2F and 3F that I've had for a while. When I went to load up my first cartridges, I discovered that I still had a partial can of 3F that's been around for a while . . . I'm kind of embarrassed to mention that the can had the price of $1.75 written on it in grease pencil if that gives you any indication of just how long I've had it. :-) Most of the young ones probably wouldn't know what a "grease pencil" is? :-)

[country gent]

One thing I found pan lubing is once you get the cake in the pan and the first batch of bullets cut out leave it there just refill the holes with bullets and add enough lube to make up what was used in the previous batch. Makes handling the pans easier as bullets are "supported in the upright position.

[bedbugbilly]

Another helpful hint! Thank you country gent! Greatly appreciated!

[bigted]

country gent ... man that is just plain genius. i can't tell how many times i have cut the boolits outta the cake and then just scraped the lube out and re-melted it.

puttin boolits in the holes ... man ... stared me in the face for a couple years. genius i tell ya. and i ain't makin fun of nobody but me ... really never tumbled to just shovin bare boolits back into the now vacant holes.

thanks for the hint.

[big bore 99]

Thanks to all for the tips and formulas. I just pan lubed some last night for the 45-70. I used beeswax, a little candle wax for color and some vaseline and a little wheel bearing grease. This seems to work ok, but sometimes I need to smear a little in the grooves that it comes out of when pushing them out. I just ground a popcicle stick to about the same radius and smeared it in the groove. I'll be using some lard next time around. I use this for both black and smokeless powders.
I've heard you need to warm the bullets first? Has anyone heard of that?

[bigted]

they warm with the melted lube surrounding them. never had any problems with cool boolits.

[country gent]

I warm the bullets with the lube when its meltingin the original cakes/pans. When lube is melted then bullets and lube are the same temperature. I do it on top of the stove in a double boiler set up. 4 thick washers keeps the pan with bullets and lube above the other allowing water under neath to avoid scoarching lubes. It also provides a more even heating of everything. The old timer that started me pan lubing had 5-6 pans for diffrent calibers and the cakes already there, I picked up on it and never gave it a real thought on remelting lube completely everytime. I have also been know to finger lube small batches with softer lubes.

[enfield]

My method is to melt a small batch of lube in a tuna type can on a burner (low heat) and tweezer the boolits in and leave them just long enough to get goodn warm, tweezer them out and upright on a board with wax paper. a small blob of wax at the bottom will usually stay stuck to the wax paper and the boolit comes off with just wax in the grooves. the secret is to not let them get too hot or the lube wont stay on the boolit as good.

[Prs61109]

I tried "dipping" some 45/70 500 grain bullets in liquid (warmed) SPG today and like this technique better than cutting them out of a cake of lube. I used a pair of long-nose pliers and dipped them into the liquid. The cooler bullet causes the SPG to congeal on the bullet after a few seconds and coats it nicely. I place it on a piece of wax paper to let the lube cool and harden.

I use a 45/70 case to "trim" off the excess lube from the bullets. I drilled out the base of the case with a 1/4 inch drill bit and use a 1/4 inch dowel to push the bullet back out of the case. It works very well for me. The lube stays in the grooves nicely with this technique, better than my luck with pan lubing. It seems faster too.

If anyone is interested, l will post some photos of these steps and my modified 45/70 case.

[big bore 99]

Would like to see those photos. I forgot to mention, after watching some you tube videos, I got one of those silicone-flexible baking pans to lube in. The whole lube cake with the boolits comes out easy enough. Still only getting about 50% to stay in the grooves when I push them out. With that too, no way to stick them back in the wholes and doing it again. So when you dip, you only do it once? I tried making a cutter from an old case, but it was too tight to go over the boolit.

[enfield]

when the lube is melted I start placing the boolits in the liquid and by the time I get about 20 in I start taking them out ( starting with the oldest ) and putting them on the wax paper. if you dip a cold boolit you get quite a caked on blob and it does not stick in the grooves very well. my lube is bees wax, olive (or neatsfoot ) oil & some lard.

[Lead Fred]

1 lb bee's wax
1 lb lard
8oz cornolla oil

Has been my BP mix since I started casting, never saw any reason to change

Ive had my 405gr 45/70 boolits up to 1750fps, and it works just fine

[Prs61109]

Here are a series of photos showing my technique for lubing bullets by dipping them into liquid lube (SPG used here).

116954

Modified 47/70 case with push-out dowel.

116955

Dipping bullet into SPG lube for three or four seconds (not critical).

116956

The bullet is well coated in a few seconds.

116957

The bullet base is also coated but this is easily removed.

116958

Allow lube to cool and harden for several minutes. Notice grooves are well filled.

116959

Press case down over bullet to trim off excess.

116960

Dowel is sitting on top of the bullet.

116961

Withdraw the case while pressing down on the dowel.

116962

Grooves are fully filled and bullet can loaded. I clean off the lube from the bullet base with my thumbnail.

116963

Dipped bullet, trimmed bullet and sized bullet. This is the RCBS 45-500-BPS bullet. When loaded into my cases, the top lube groove is exposed.

[country gent]

Lightly belling the case mouth will make it easier to get over the bullet and help to "press" the lube into the grooves filling any air voids. Another little trick would be to sacrifice a case and a cheap set of pliers. Cut the end off of a case 1/2" long or so then split it in half. JB weld or a good epoxy and glue to jaws of the cheap pliers this will make a set of formed smooth jaws and wont add much to the handles spread. A cheap set of snap ring pliers would be great and if it felt more comfortable the bent tips.

[Owen49]

Not having any accurate means to weigh ingredients, I mixed mine by volume after the ingredients were melted. I kept it simple, one pint of melted tallow and one pint of melted beeswax. We'll see how it works.

[big bore 99]

Looks good. Thanks.

[country gent]

That works as well as wieghing. The mix may be a little on the stiff side maybe try adding a couple ounces of olive or canola oil available from the local grocery store.

[chill45100]

I have no photos but use 10 inch tweezers purchased on line. As was said earlier immerse for a few seconds but with a gentle shake or swirl to help fill the grooves. Mine are then pushed through a Lee sizer die honed to match what my rifle likes. Messy but effective.
For my hands the long tweezers are easier to manipulate than pliers or hemostats.
Chill45100

[Texantothecore]

Excellent tutorial, thanks. I am going to use this method.

[edmehlig]

Prs61109 - Instead of using long nose pliers why not get some clear plastic tubing from either Lowes, Home Depot or where ever and insert it over the bullet until you reach just above the first ring. This is what I've been using for years for my 45cal conicals that I've been shooting with my White ML's. Naturally I would bring a bullet to the store to insure you get the correct size that you need. Also with the bullet still in the tube I then wipe the bottom of the bullet off on a rag that is lying flat on my bench. This way I only have lube on the sides of my conicals.

Curious as to what ingredients you use to make your lube. I like the nice yellow/gold color. Also where did you get that tool to remove the lube??

Ed

[Prs61109]

Edmehlig,

One of the commenters mentioned using hemostats instead of long nose piers. I had forgotten I had a pair; they are handier than pliers and don't mark the bullet. I made the tool myself using a 45/70 case with a slightly flared mouth than would fit over the bullet. I drilled out the base in a small woodworking lathe but one could use other means as well. Brass is soft so be careful. It has a tendency to "catch" the drill bit. Add a drop or two of oil while drilling will help.

The lube used in the photos is a commercial product called SPG. When it cools, it has a faint yellow color. There are dozens (hundreds?) of homemade recipes for BP lube. Being a newbie to BP cartridge, using a popular commercial lube removed one more variable in my learning curve.

[martinibelgian]

There is a way to do away with cake cutters; pliers etc: Just let the lube solidify around the bullets till romm temperature. Pop out the lube block with the bullets from the lube pan, and set it on a soft surface (folded towels, whatever). Push on the bullet nose with your thumb to break the bond - you'll feel the bullet move a bit. Do this for every bullet, then push the bullets right through the lube cake.
You jsut need your fingers and pateince, no cutting off excess lube etc. - much less work for the same result.

[John in PA]

Slick as snot!!

Another tried and true formula is 50% olive oil, 50% beeswax. Pour molten into lubrisizer, by the time you're ready to lube, it will be solid. Latest lube formula is to use either FrogLube or Tracklube Plus with maybe 30-40% beeswax. Becoming popular with some N-SSA shooters, who say you can load and shoot muskets dang near all day (or through an entire match) with no cleaning. Seasoning bores with Froglube or Tracklube Plus is a big help on resisting fouling also.

[dikman]

Seasoning bores with Froglube or Tracklube Plus is a big help on resisting fouling also.

Shades of Bore Butter! I thought bore seasoning had been well and truly put to rest.:holysheep

[rfd]

i use small hemostats with small neo tubing over the pincers. i use a hornady .45-70 lnl oal case (the primer hole is already drilled to use a 1/4" dowel boolit pusher outer), that i ever-so-slightly flare and chamfer at the mouth, for a hand-in-glove fit over the boolit and a super smooth scrape of the lube. dip lubing is my fave method for lubing large boolits - easy, super fast, no muss or fuss, uses very little lube (and the excess scrapings go right back into the lube pot), very precise.

shout out to nobade for the killer boolit lube formula - it's the "cat's meow"! ;)

http://i.imgur.com/w1MH0bq.jpg

[Nobade]

Hi there RFD, Glad the lube is working for you! I use a lot of that in revolvers and my Sharps rifle, and I like it as well. "Cat's Meow" - that's funny! Reminds me I need to make up a new batch soon, it's running low. Also glad to hear dip lubing is working for you, once I learned that way I quit trying to pan lube. Plus it's good for big boolits like my minie's that won't fit in the lubrisizer.

-Nobade

[rfd]

fwiw, a few more dip lube ramblings -

==> pointy nosed boolits can be a challenge of sorts, if not impossible, to grip with pliers, hemostats, etc. i just cast a batch of lee 459-500-3r boolits and couldn't get good purchase with the rubber sheathed hemo's and i refuse to risk nicking the lead using bare metal pliers. i tried different inner diameter tubing over the boolit's snout but it didn't work all the time and mostly the boolit slipped off and into the lube tin. so, i now use a little piece of 3m blue masking tape over the nose which grips well and allows the fingers a good grip on the tape/boolit, and goes on and off quickly, and the small bit of tape is reusable. thrifty me.

==> i had been using a drilled out fire formed case with slightly inside chamfered to "cookie cut" the just lubed boolit. it works fine. some folks don't or won't have fire formed brass and the excellent alternative is to buy and use a hornady l'n'l oal brass case - it's perfectly oversized and already has the primer pocked drilled out to accept a 1/4" dowel boolit pusher outer, just needs a slight inner mouth chamfer.

==> i used a cone shaped dremel bit to slightly concave the end of the pusher dowel, so it won't harm pointy tipped boolits.

http://i.imgur.com/hGKMtnj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ygcf767.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/S8k0Oal.jpg