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Maven
09-13-2005, 07:16 PM
I've been experimenting with WC 860 and a "fat" 195gr. Loverin (Jim Allison/Cast Bullet Enterprises made the mold.) in my Arg. Mau. (with a Lyman receiver sight + a Swedish Mau. front sight, thanks to KCSO) with satisfying results. 44gr. WC 860 (maybe 1,670fps) + Fed. 215 primers gave fairly consistent groups with an occasional flyer to keep me humble. The best 50 yd. group was 5 in 1" (As we shoot to the SW, the afternoon light on our 100 yd. range isn't favorable to open or aperture sights, thus the shorter distance.)

As I was running short of standard LR primers, I decided to substitute 43gr. IMR 5010 + .5cc powdered bran (Bf) under the same CB. Experience has shown that 5010 -> almost the same velocity as 860, particularly when using a filler. The results were better in some respects, but the dispersion of hits on the target (50 yds.) was greater (getting humbler by the minute!). My best groups were 5 out of 15 in 1" and 8 of 15 that could be covered by a quarter. Oddly enough, I forgot to use Fed. 215 (mag.) primers with this load (a first), which may have helped disperse some of them.

Brass I used reformed Rem. & Win. .30-06 brass, which are good for ~5-7 firings before the necks split or are burned through. I also tried 20 new pieces of Graf's brass (2 firings to date and appear nearly new). Two things are apparent with it. First, pressure seems a bit higher with it as the same hold -> higher groupings on the target. Second, the rim thickness is less than that of the Fed., Rem. and Win. '06 brass, which means the Lee handheld priming tool won't seat primers to the proper depth using their #2 shell holder. Moreover, the diameter of base/rim is slightly wider than that of '06 brass so that some wouldn't even enter that same shell holder (or the one on my Lachmiller priming tool either). I finally managed to seat them using my little-used Forster (a PITA to use) Co-Ax priming tool.

Next test will be with WC 820 v. IMR 4198 and the same CB, but with standard LR primers.

Frank46
09-14-2005, 03:06 AM
Maven, last '91 argie that I had (read stupid move as I sold it) i used to make 7.65 cases from Israeli 8mm cases dated 1954-55. Still have the form and trim die. But now am looking for another one. Frank

Buckshot
09-15-2005, 01:10 AM
............Maven, I think the 7.65x53 Arg is one I haven't done much with, so far as surplus powders are concerned. Good report though. I have the group buy 'Fat 30' mould and haven't used it for them. I did use the Bator designed custom C316-220RF and the C312-200 RF with H4198 and they did well.

Brass I used to make from 8x57. I have a couple hundred Graf cases and had bought just before Graf announced theirs, 100 Norma cases. I have found the Graf to be occassionally difficult to use in a #2 (Mauser) holder and the Norma is impossible. I ordered a Hornaday shell holder listed for the Argentine and that cured that problem.

Lee supplies the std Mauser #2 for ,473" rim diameter and the Argie is supposed to be a bit thicker.

...............Buckshot

Maven
09-15-2005, 10:29 AM
All, I still form 7.65 x 53mm (with a RCBS trim & forming die)* for the Argy from Rem./Win. .30-06 since I have a lot of it. Just to satisfy my curiousity, I measured the width of the Graf, Rem. and Win. rims yesterday and found .473" vs. .4675", respectively. Ergo, all fit the Lyman #2 press shellholder but the Graf's don't fit the #2 Lee Autoprime or the one on the Lachmiller priming tool (for '06 et al with the same rim dia.). Btw, I reloaded 50 rnds. with 21gr. IMR 4198 (25) and 18.5gr. WC 820 and the same fat (.313") Loverin I mentioned the other day.

Lee Auto Disk measure & coarse (extruded) powders: I wanted to determine whether this was feasible with IMR 4198 as I've grown used to throwing charges of WC 820 with the Lyman pistol powder measure. Using a double disk & rifle charging die, I was able to do it, but variation in charge wt. was as large as .8gr./20gr. and later, .8gr./21gr. 4198, which was unacceptable. The Auto Disk, however, works very well with pistol powders (B'eye, Clays, the Dots, WC 820) and proportionally smaller charges. Ditto with 4198. Conclusion: For extruded rifle powders and charge wts. >15gr., use a different [powder] measure.

*I anneal after forming an M-die expansion and check for the "dreaded doughnut" after the first firing. If present, I remove it via a Forster .311" neck reamer (internal).

StarMetal
09-15-2005, 10:44 AM
Maven and Buckshot,

I'm sure you've both noticed that the specifications for the 7.65 Argie brass are different then for the 06 class, especially the rim thickness, thus the seating primer problems in some shell holders. Apparently Graf's brass for the Argie is made to specs for that round. If you ever saw stripper clips for the Argie they are a very thin affair when compared to Springfield or 98 Mauser.

Paul I've tried 5010 in my Argie too. I really like the stuff. As you know Oldfeller calls it white powder in reference to it burning really dirty as to compare it to black powder. I haven't found my lot of it to be terribly bad, but it is dirtier.

Joe