Sporting Scatterguns

[TXGunNut]

I'm no stranger to shotguns, there's a Winchester 1300 riot gun at each end of my house and in each vehicle. In my LE career the 1300 was the gun I carried and trained with. Even my "bird gun" is a Winchester 1200. But times have changed. I don't kick down doors, clear rooms or do felony traffic stops anymore. I do have a membership to a private range with very nice skeet, trap and 5-stand facilities. Skeet and trap are a whopping $3 a round so it's quite obvious my dues money is subsidising the shotgun facilities. On top of that the shotgun shooters pretty much run the club so I need to socialize a bit with the movers and shakers, right?
I figure I need a nice O/U shotgun but I know it has to fit me. I (think I) know how to determine if a shotgun fits me and have found a few that fill the bill quite nicely. One is a version of the 686 that Beretta makes for Cabelas, called the Onyx. Awesome wood, fit & finish is quite nice, and it has a reputation for being quite durable. One of the Sporting models comes to shoulder amazingly well for me. Only problem is that I've only seen them in 12 ga. Another shotgun I like is the CZ made by Huglu. Fit & finish is a bit behind the Beretta but not much, especially considering the price difference. A friend has a Huglu and it's his favorite shotgun, holding up nicely as well. Another fly in the ointment is a Turkish shotgun imported by Academy. Saw one in 20 ga for under $400 and it was actually quite a handy little shotgun. Comes to shoulder as well as the Beretta and is a fair bit lighter as well. Not near as well fit and finished as the other two but it's well worth the money and will help me decide if I'm cut out to play clay bird games.
There won't be any doors to negotiate or flashbangs going off but I'll do the best I can. :bigsmyl2:

[lefty o]

just buy a 12ga. trap and skeet loads are light anyways, they wont beat you up if the gun fits you properly. a used browning citori or used beretta O/U would be the place to start. dont waste money on a cheap O/U, as they do not stand up to the thousands of rounds that is required of a trap/skeet gun a cheapy o/u may last a lifetime of hunting pheasant or ducks, but they wont make it through a year or two of trap shooting. just take you model 1200 out and use it for a while to make sure you enjoy the sports. when your ready to jump in, buy a quality gun that fits you well.

[TXGunNut]

just take you model 1200 out and use it for a while to make sure you enjoy the sports. when your ready to jump in, buy a quality gun that fits you well.-lefty o

Funny thing, I've given similar advice to folks starting out in PPC years ago. "Use what you have, you'll know when to move up." We discouraged guys from having "open" guns built until they reached a certain point and that made them better shooters, saved a few from unnecessary expense.
Difference is I've tried hunting with the 1200 and I can't swing worth a darn with it. I've shot skeet with it and wasn't much good. Guess it's worth a try, I'll bring it along tomorrow.

[runfiverun]

if you can shoot a Winchester well the beretta isn't gonna point where you look.
the stock has different dimensions.
you'd be surprised how many rounds a 1300 will put down range before you need to buy a new stock after it slips to the side.
anyway a trap gun is a trap gun a skeet gun is a skeet gun and a sporting clays gun is a sporting clays gun.
they all point and shoulder differently, and none of them are field guns really. [you could use one for some things]
go with the 12 ga if you stick with the sport you'll start re-loading your own soon enough and the components are chaper/easier to get.
the 12 ga can be loaded with 3/4,15/16th,7/8, or 1 oz of shot and still out shoot the 20 ga.
if you stick with it a bit you should be able to find a used gun for a reasonable price that will do exactly what you want.

[TXGunNut]

I've adapted to the Winchesters, that's why I'm so impressed that the 686 in one of the sporting configurations "looks" where I do. My least favorite centerfire rifle is my Ruger M77 "bad weather gun". It's stainless/composite and nearly idestructible but I don't much care for it. OTOH it shoulders like a fine shotgun, has a Timney trigger and shoots a little under 1.5 MOA with loads developed for another rifle so it's all good.
I figure a "Sporting" configuration will serve me well for 5-stand and hunting. Will hopefully work for skeet as well. Trap is a mystery to me so may not be a factor.

[runfiverun]

trap is simple.
5 stations and one of 5 targets at a time. [hard left, soft left, straight, soft right, hard right] from each station
so you shoot 25 combinations.
you get entered on a squad and have a captain, you shoot 4 different houses for a total of 100 targets with your squad.
the captain is someone that is a veteran of the game and is supposed to control the start of each round of 25 and is the first to shoot.
he also keeps an eye on the other shooters, and watches the targets to see if they get broken by them to help the scorer/thrower in case he/she misses seeing a piece of target and calls a LOSS [worst word ever]
to shoot the game.
when it's your turn to shoot you just get ready and call for the target, then shoot which of the 5 options comes out, after five shots at each station you move one station to your right when the last person is done, until you have fired all 25 rounds.
that's the basics.
to shoot the game you want a gun that shoots high [one half to one full pattern high] as the targets are generally shot on the rise, or going to the side and rising, and you want to keep the target on top of the gun.

[HeavyMetal]

Buy the best you can afford!

I have several "economy" O/U's and they have performed very well but they don't look as nice as a Beretta!

Beretta does make smaller gauge shotguns, and 20, 28 and 410's can extend a day of shooting particularly if your prone to "Brusitis".

Looking for a 410 O/U now and have been shooting a Mossberg silver reserve for 6 or so years. Nice performing gun but would not buy it again, no support from Mossberg!

Cabela's should be able to order a Beretta in any gauge you want and I've become a big fan of the 28 for most shooting.

Keep the 12 for long range Duck and Geese hunting and get a 20 or 28 for evereything else.

[RickinTN]

Mostly good advice above. One thing not mentioned is the "cheap" o/u guns very well may have a problem with both barrels shooting to the same point of impact, or convergence. The "decent" o/u's start with Browning and Beretta. Beretta is a fine "starter" gun for the disciplines you mention however many folks find the Browning target guns to "point" better for them. I shoot all three disciplines with a flat-rib sporter. Many folks say you can't shoot trap well with a flat-rib flat shooting double gun, but I do, and do it quite well. Barrel length is very important. As I understand it the trend is skeet guns is for longer barrels (30") and 30" barrels will serve you quite well in trap and 5-stand (a take-off of English Sporting Clays). I wouldn't go any shorter than 30", and for a beginner wouldn't go any longer than 30". Sub gauges are neat and have their niche, but a 12 ga with 1oz loads around 1,200 fps will break any target you'll see in any of the disciplines and are pretty easy on the shooter. Remember shooting 100+ targets in an afternoon can be much more punishing than a few shots while bird hunting with heavy loads.
Good Luck with your decision,
Rick

[thxmrgarand]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that $3 for a round of trap or skeet is a very low price today! At least where I shoot the targets alone cost the club about $2. On top of that is maintenance of the traps and facilities, electricity, garbage service to haul away all the hulls, etc. etc.

[TXGunNut]

Wow, thanks for all the sage advice. My shooting buddy is a seasoned clay bird shooter and has been a good source of input as well. I like the Browning and Winchester doubles but they just don't fit me like other shotguns do. My local Cabelas has a very good selection of O/U's so I got to try on quite a few but they were mostly 12's. My shooting buddy is a fan of the 28 and 20 ga's but I'm not recoil sensitive. I do like the way a few of those 20's feel. Seems quite a few shotguns are only made in 12 ga and in other models the smaller tubes take a bit of looking. I'm in no hurry, quite honestly I'm waiting for a 10% off sale. Cabelas has one from time to time and they're about due, besides I need to build up some more points. 10% off a shotgun in this price range is worth waiting for and a nice 20 or 28 may come along while I'm waiting.

[TXGunNut]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that $3 for a round of trap or skeet is a very low price today! At least where I shoot the targets alone cost the club about $2. On top of that is maintenance of the traps and facilities, electricity, garbage service to haul away all the hulls, etc. etc.


Yes, it is a pretty good price and no small part of my decision. I'm not looking to get into any serious competition but it will be nice to shoot with some very good shooters. I'm just hoping what they say about old dogs and new tricks ain't necessarily true.

[runfiverun]

this clays stuff is addicting you'll soon find yourself going somewhere every weekend to attend a shoot.
ponsess warren and the remington sts hulls will be your friend.

[fecmech]

The Beretta 686 is a good solid gun and will last a long time. I personally would not buy one of the $400-500 O/U's as the internals are pretty crude and I don't think they'll hold up to a lot of shooting. The Beretta's and Citori's hold their value pretty well and if you can buy used you will never lose a nickle when you sell. Most sporting shooters are usually very happy to let a fellow try their gun and the proof is in the shooting. I would go shoot sporting with your 1200 and when your squad mates offer to let you try their guns, take them up on it. Shoot the game for a while and see what works for you. Your 1200 is no handicap. One of my buddies shoots a 28 ga. Model 12 pump and he shoots in the 70-80% range on sporting targets.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that $3 for a round of trap or skeet is a very low price today! At least where I shoot the targets alone cost the club about $2. On top of that is maintenance of the traps and facilities, electricity, garbage service to haul away all the hulls, etc. etc.

In Denmark we pay around $5.5 for a round of skeet or trap and about the same for a box of 25 shells (steel shot). Compared to when I started in the early seventies, clay shooting has never been cheaper.

[tonyjones]

When you are ready to buy a "new" gun get a 12 ga. O/U (new or pre-owned). If you also want to shoot the sub bores you can have a set of tubes fitted to your barrels. Briley and others make them. With one gun you can shoot 12, 20, 28 ga. and .410 bore. The only objection would be the weight as opposed to a 20, 28 or .410 game gun. The weight is a plus during lengthy runs of clay targets. Perazzi's are available in two barrel sets. One barrel is a normal 12 ga. O/U set. The other is available with sub bore tubes. With one gun your 12, 20, 28 and .410 will all weigh and point/swing the same.

In my 12 ga. gun I now shoot more 3/4 ounce loads than all others combined. I use 1,250 to 1,300 fps loads for most clay targets and quail and nickel plated shot at about 1,800 fps for dove. You will be amazed at how well 3/4 oz. loads pattern and how far you can break targets with them.

Regards,

Tony

[buckwheatpaul]

You might look at the SKB's comes in all gauges......I had a 500 if I remember right....didnt use it and sold it....very sold yet reasonable......When I bought it, SKB made the shotguns for Weatherby....back in the 60's they made shotguns for another namebrand shotgun company.....take a look and you will like it!

[lefty o]

You might look at the SKB's comes in all gauges......I had a 500 if I remember right....didnt use it and sold it....very sold yet reasonable......When I bought it, SKB made the shotguns for Weatherby....back in the 60's they made shotguns for another namebrand shotgun company.....take a look and you will like it!
skb has made some decent guns, but as of right now i wouldnt buy one, as the company has been having issues with who'mever it is making their guns, and last i saw, skb was looking for a new manufacturer.

[ohland]

SKB made.... shotguns for another name brand shotgun company

Heck yes! They made the Model 100, 200, and 280 SxS for Ithaca. Chrome lined bores, single trigger, barrel selector on the trigger, beautiful little boxlock. One from the 60s is still tight and locks up like a vault. The top lever should go no further than half way (straight front to back) or a little bit past when you close it. Stocks vary from pistol grip to english, splinter forend to beavertail.

Common chamberings are 12 and 20, mostly 3", but they also came with 2.75" as well. Fixed chokes, 26 or 28 inch barrels. Mostly blued, a few came with a silver "coin" finish. Engraving was available. Nice little SxS.

Edit: I was idly looking for SKBs and saw some "200HR" models. These are made by Akus in Turkey for GU out of Omaha, NE. The lines are nice, looks darned close to the Japanese SKBs. A few garish things, however:

"SKB" and some other crud (in letters 3/16 high, it seems) laser etched on the side of the right barrel, forward of the breech. The originals were roll stamped with a neat label. Looks cheap, cheap, cheap.

"SKB" in gold under the front of the frame. Cheap, cheap, cheap.

Blueing looks... well... Turkish.

Frame is case colored. Looks whorish compared to original SKBs, which were blue or coin finished.

Almost forgot, MSRPs range from 2,100 to over 2,500. Huh, what?

If they made this SxS to resemble the originals, the 28ga on a true 28ga would make me twitch.... I can live without an SST, as I have almost never switched barrels in the field.

[TXGunNut]

I shot a Beretta 686 and a CZ Huglu in 28 ga today, handled a Browning in 20 and a 687 in 28. All were very nice and light and recoil was next to nothing. The 686 seems to handle best for me but I think I better step up to the 20 ga. I priced 28 ga shells today and even with 3-4 reloads I don't want to pay that, at least not for my first sporting shotgun. My enabler was nice enough to bring out all four shotguns, even borrowed one from a friend. He let me shoot a few skeet from random stations and I actually broke more than I missed, big surprise. ;-) Too hot to shoot a round but it was a very helpful experience. Almost pulled the riot gun out of my trunk just for fun but it was too hot for that type of shenanigans. I went into this thinking quite seriously about the 12 ga but I'm leaning towards the lighter gun. My dad was always puzzled about TX dove hunters and their 12 ga's. He grew up shooting pheasant in NE with a 20 ga (Mossberg bolt gun!) and saw no use for the 12 and thought hunting dove to eat them was pretty silly too. Part of the proceeds from his estate will be used to buy this shotgun, I think he'd be pleased if I bring home a nice 20. My shooting buddy shoots mostly 28 and 20 ga and I'm thinking I'll follow his lead on this one.

[historicfirearms]

I had an SKB from the early eighties and it was a fine gun. If you could find a used one for the right price, I'd get it.

[Duckiller]

Before you run off and buy game specific guns consider recoil. I do not like recoil!!! Shot lots of trap and sheet with 7/8 oz loads. If you want to get bounced around get an O/U or make sure it is very heavy. Not sure what Winchester makes now but Remington and Barretta both make nice gas operated guns. Different barrel lengths, different screw in chokes. If you shoot 200 rounds of trap or skeet you are going to feel it a lot less with a gas gun than with an O/U. If you are going to compete in the Olympic or World Championships you probabley need a custom fitted O/U, made in Italy. If you are looking to be a reasonable club shooter that has a good time then I would recommend a gas gun firing shells loaded on a MEC 650. If you have to have an O/U then also consider the Ruger Red Label that has just been reissued. Enjoy you shooting.

[lefty o]

as mentioned above there are some good gas operated auto's out there. now that ive finally got the dang thing dialed in im really liking my new beretta A400- recoil is non existant. ive shot my browning citori XT for a lot of years, and that gun did not abuse you, but the new beretta is very gentle.

[Gator 45/70]

I've always been amazed/baffled at the amount of money/reason people throw money/lead at paper and clays ?
I grew up on fur/hide/shell and even scales.
For fun we rode in cane fields shooting water moccasins, I don't get it, But carry on gentlemen.

[TXGunNut]

I had an SKB from the early eighties and it was a fine gun. If you could find a used one for the right price, I'd get it.

I haven't seen one, will study up on it so that I can recognize the opportunity when it comes along. I seem to recall a bit of a fuss about the SKB during that time period but quite honestly was not interested in them at the time.

[TXGunNut]

.....If you are looking to be a reasonable club shooter that has a good time then I would recommend a gas gun firing shells loaded on a MEC 650. If you have to have an O/U then also consider the Ruger Red Label that has just been reissued. Enjoy you shooting.-Duckiller

I like the Red Label, just haven't found one that fits me well. I'm a terrible wingshooter and feel that some time shooting clays will help me in that area. My formal competition days are over and quite frankly I don't have the raw talent in this area to make that plan work anyway. The O/U's that fit me well have very little felt recoil, I suspect that is a function of a good stock design/fit.
Hadn't seriously considered a gas gun but will look into it. I'm in no hurry, I have plenty of shotguns that will shoot as well as I do and quite honestly it might be fun to shoot a round or two with an old Winchester pump.
And yes, I was fondling a MEC earlier today. My old 12 ga Lee Load All served me well 20+ years ago but when I get a pile of hulls built up I'll bring home a MEC.

[M-Tecs]

I've always been amazed/baffled at the amount of money/reason people throw money/lead at paper and clays ?
I grew up on fur/hide/shell and even scales.
For fun we rode in cane fields shooting water moccasins, I don't get it, But carry on gentlemen.
It's all in what you enjoy. I don't gamble, smoke or hang out in bars. I do enjoy competition and quality firearms. Most of my high dollar stuff is for 600-1,000 yard competition.

I grew up in a very rural area and starting at 8 years old I shot almost everyday. Thought I was hot stuff since I was the best in the area. Reality was I was just the biggest fish in a small pond. Moved on to the big pond (national level competition) and discovered how small of a fish I was. Trying to be the biggest fish has led to the expenditure of a fair amount of resources but every dime spend as been worth it. It's not what I do but who I am.

[dakotashooter2]

I really don't use my 12 ga much any more. Turkeys, upland game, ducks and big geese all seem to fall readily to the 20ga as long as I'm not trying to shoot them i the next county. I really don't seem to shoot any better with the 12 ga anyway.

Savage also has an O/U (import) for around $600. Seem to be fairly solid guns. Bought one for my son but it has not seen enough rounds to make a call on durability. It fits shoots pretty well for him though. Once he gets dialed in he doesn't miss much.

[HeavyMetal]

reloading is the way to go here, of course!

28 gauge can be bought at a fair price if you do the searching for it, currently I have a guy selling flats of 9 shot 28 gauge for $75.00 plus tax. It's a Cheddite hull and as such I haven't purchased any and only because I am set up to use the Federal hull right now.

The type of reloader you get can play a big part in quality of re loads and really important in shotgun shells! I used MEC for years, and still use a Sizemaster for my 28 gauge, but I am on the lookout for a Ponsness Warren in 28, when I find one the MEC will go on the block ASAP.

[fecmech]

Since you like 20's which is all I currently shoot do not be in a hurry to get a reloader. They make a great deal of sense in the 28 and .410 but much less in the 20 and 12 ga. With current component prices 12 ga 1 oz loads run about $5.88/box and 20 ga 7/8 oz about $5.22/box. Decent ammo is available for both gauges in the $6./box (59.95/case) all the time. I have a little spreadsheet calculator I can email you if you want to play with component costs. Good luck however you decide to do things.

[tygar]

I have had dedicated Trap, Skeet & hunting guns & as said by others, they are different. I like Brownings best for all. 4 barrel skeet set, 2 brl trap, & several different for hunting 32" O/U, 32" A5 with a 28" 2nd brl.

If you can shoot the hump back you can get 26" for skeet, 28-32 for trap & any of them for hunting including 24" & slug.

My favorite is Browning Lightning 28" & can use it for everything with the chokes.

Worst was Win 101 (beat the absolute crp out of my cheek) & Kreighoff (funny cause I have a 458 double rifle that I love) & Perazzi didn't fit at all.

Go to the range with some shells & ask various people to try their guns to see how you like them, understanding that LOP etc may be way off for you.

I think you'll find Brownings O/Us fit most people.

FWIW

[buckwheatpaul]

There are many valid points about O/U vs. gas operated.....when I sold my SKB I bought into the Browning Gold group....Got one in 10, 12 w 3-1/2" chambers, and a 20.....my wife loves the 20 due to the light recoil.....points great and all are very desirable....not in vogue with the purists.....the 10 ga. is great for geese and the recoil is mild comparted to O/U, Browning humpbacks, etc......good hunting.....

[wv109323]

One thing that has not been mentioned about the better O/U shotguns is that they are rebuilbable/repairable. With heavy and continual use the action will eventually work loose. The Beretta's and Brownings allow for the trunions to be replaced . The less expensive O/U's do not have that convenience.
The 20 gauge can handle all hunting situations except duck hunting where heavy 12 ga. loads are more the norm. Visit the local ranges, shoot other peoples guns when invited, and let them know you are interested in purchasing a shotgun. You will be surprised what may turn up.
Another feature that you might want to investigate is the "overbore". Manufacturers are making the nominal bore diameter larger than standard. This advantage helps in better patterns,less recoil and a little more velocity. I do not know if that is available in 20 ga. or not. The Beretta system is called Optima but each manufacturer calls it something different. Choke tubes are different from the overbore compared to the standard bore within the same manufacturer so be informed. If buying used know what you are buying. The older guns may not have this feature.
All the shotgun games can be played with one shotgun but interchangeable choke tubes are a must. The auto's do bring less recoil to the game but you are stuck with one choke to make multiple shots in sporting clays. This can be a disadvantage if the two birds are at different distances.
In today's market it is hard to buy reloading components LOCALLY and make it advantageous to reload. You can go to Wally World and buy 12 and 20 gauge shells for 27.00 per hundred. Of course the numbers change when you are talking 10,16,28 or .410 shells.

[JeffinNZ]

You might look at the SKB's comes in all gauges......

Only just at the weekend our shotgun convenor was telling me that he considered SKB's one of the most highly underrated guns on the market.

Glad to hear of someone thinking double barrel. I have nothing against semi's and pumps other than 1) they spew hulls all over the range for someone to pick up and 2) they slow down the course of fire.

[jumbeaux]

Back before degenerative joint disease took my ability to stand for any length of time I shot trap informally on a Shrine Unit. We had the full range of competitors...I just used my Remington 1187 12 gauge with a trap choke. Shot literally thousand of rounds...just kept it clean and changed out the O-rings a few times...btw one of our best skeet shooters used a very well worn Ithaca Model 37 pump...he was deadly...

rick

[TXGunNut]

btw one of our best skeet shooters used a very well worn Ithaca Model 37 pump...he was deadly...jumbeaux

One of the hardest kicking shotguns I've ever fired was a 37 riot gun, guess the load had a lot to do with it but light loads weren't much better. Sometimes it's not about the gun.
Have narrowed it down to a Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon 1 in 20 or 28. The 28 and 410 are on a smaller frame and a few ounces lighter. I think I'll shoot a round of skeet with one of my Winchesters this weekend, maybe even one of the riot guns.

[southpaw]

Get what you like and don't be afraid to spend some money. None of the guns are going to fit you perfectly. You will need to have it fitted to you. I wouldn't worry too much about choke. If all you are shooting is skeet then I would put in a skeet or ic choke. If sporting clays then I would go with an ic or light mod. Again I wouldn't worry too much about the choke, you are gonna miss more targets fretting about the choke than you are from using the wrong choke.

As for the length of the barrel I would suggest a 28"-30" unless all you are shooting is skeet then a 26" would be better. If all you are shooting is trap then 32" would be better. All barrel length really effects is your swing. For close targets you want something that will swing fast and easy. For longer targets that aren't zipping past your face you want a gun that balances better.

Everyone has their preferences for guns, design and such. Whatever you get you will need to modify your technique to suit it. Don't be afraid to ask other good shooters for advise on different techniques. There are alot of things that you can do that will make things so much easier. You just need to find what works for you.

Something that may help your wing shooting would be to focus on the head of the bird. Same with the sporting game. Another thing that would help would be getting your gun to your should without any problems. This will improve with the clay shooting. Focus on the bird and forget about the bead.

Good luck with your new addiction!

Jerry Jr.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, southpaw. I'm reluctant to modify a shotgun as more than a few seem to fit me just fine...at this point anyway. The Beretta 20 I was fondling followed someone else home Friday and I just can't talk myself into the 28. I truly think a riot gun shooting skeet isn't such a bad idea, mine point a bit low but at this stage of the game they won't hold me back.

[TXGunNut]

Finally let a 20ga follow me home, but it wasn't the Beretta. My local Cabela's sold the one I was looking at and haven't received another yet. They did receive a 20ga Browning Citori 725 28" and I liked the way it fit me, better than the 28ga Beretta Pigeon that I really like. I'd handled a few older Brownings but didn't care for them. For some reason I tried on this one and really liked it, the "lack" of an auto safety didn't hurt my feelings ether. Had a 5% coupon to help ease the pain a bit at the cash register. Brought home a case of AA's, coupon took 10% off them. Wood is pretty nice for a shotgun at this level, nicer than the Beretta's I've been looking at. Yes, my fondness for pretty walnut has inflenced more gun-buying decisions than I'm likely to admit.
Well, I'm all done buying guns for awhile. Been having way too much fun for the past month or so. Will use the points I've compiled to buy a MEC loader, I guess.

[TXGunNut]

Wooo-Hoooo! Just found the $100 rebate coupon online. You can bet I printed that sucker off and filled it out. :-)

[fecmech]

The Citori's are good solid guns, you will enjoy that one a great deal. I bought a 20 ga. 625 with 32" barrels a couple years ago for myself. I shoot it every week at sporting and it fits me pretty well although I did shorten the stock by a 1/2". I'm only 5'6" so the length of pull on the stock gun is a bit long and we shoot all winter long here and the additional clothing can be a problem. Screw an IC choke in the bottom barrel and the Mod in the top and just concentrate on the target. Good luck to you.

[rking22]

You will enjoy that Browning, I shoot a 425 20ga myself, pretty wood has cost me a bunch of money too! I looked at a Beretta 20 ga with a second 28 ga barrel several years ago. Belonged to the father of one of our SCTP kids. I wanted it pretty bad till I shot it. It fit me fairly well, but kicked like a mule! Probably was slightly low in the comb ,but the comb was thin and the gun was light, It was a dream with the longer 28 ga barrels but the Browning just feels better. They are tough as nails and very very rarely have barrel convergence issues. They have done good things with the 725. Enjoy your prize, keep it greased and your grand kids can pass it on to their grandkids :)

[TXGunNut]

Thanks for the choke tips, fecmech. That's exactly what I did. I've been looking for Invector DS skeet tubes and an initial search yielded a grand total of none! I found some IC and Mod tubes on fleabay so may double up on them for skeet if need be.
And yes, rking22, the wood adds to the value for me. I can't go shooting every day but I can enjoy pretty wood any time I want to just by opening the safe.

[TXGunNut]

Found out today the Citori's heritage is a John Moses Browning design. Guess that explains why I was drawn to it. Have no idea what my little collection would look like without the contributions of that genius from Utah.

[Ramar]

TxGunNut
(http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?20061-TXGunNut) Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm smiling as if I made the purchase and I can't imagine if I had that I would feel much better.

It was the '60s when I did my shot gunning last and some how I just relived a bunch of it all over. Good luck to you!
Ramar

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, now all I need to do is learn how to shoot it. I'll need a fair bit of luck for that. May shoot a round this morning after I finish mowing the yard.

[jsizemore]

Miroku=Browning,

[lefty o]

Miroku=Browning,

yup, and those japs build a very fine gun.

[TXGunNut]

Yes, Miroku's quality is second to none, IMHO. New scattergun patterned quite well but it was trying to rain so I didn't get to shoot a round of skeet after all. Too hot and steamy anyway.

[DIRT Farmer]

And you will not miss picking up those hulls from the ground. I just put 350 rounds through my 525 sporting this weekend, it is a three barrel set, 20,28 and 410. I love it when the sporting clays course has a set I can use the 410. Reloads at 2.50 a box.

[TXGunNut]

Don't have to worry about reloading for awhile, AA's are cheap enough this time of year so I'll just let them pile up. Spent a bit of time doing product research on the MEC site. May have figured out why that bottle of 700X is on the shelf. Wonder if anyone still has recipes for 452AA?

[rking22]

There are some PDFs of the old Winchester data books on the net, search engine should come up with it. If you can't find it ,I have it on a CD somewhere. The data is old but so is the powder :) Just stay in the midrange pressure wise, besides thats where the best target loads are anyway. There's lots of good shootgun shooters in your general area,your state 4H program is one of the best in the country.Shooting with good shooters is fun and educational too :) Agree about loading 12ga, but if you can find some reclaim shot locally , you can come out ahead.

[bruce drake]

I'm late to come to this thread so I'm happy you found a shotgun you feel comfortable shooting. I was gifted a Hunter Arms SxS 12 gauge two years ago by my Father In Law for Christmas. Before that I owned a new Stevens 350 model (Ithaca 37 direct copy). As a lefty, I really liked that pump design with the bottom eject but for trap and skeet, I am absolutely in love with that old double. The SxS barrels are factory-choked IC and Mod and I would never change them for what they are.
Running reloads with 7/8 oz of #8 shot and 18gr of Red Dot give me a light recoiling load that dusts the shells very well. When the Walmart AA shells run low, the LEE makes a nice little reloading setup to start without breaking the bank on the MECs.

Bruce

[TXGunNut]

the LEE makes a nice little reloading setup to start without breaking the bank on the MECs...bruce drake


I'm not opposed to the Lee Load All, I still have my first case of AA 12ga hulls and even a few new boxes. A case of shotgun shells was 20 boxes in those days. I loaded some pretty good shells using that Load All, think I paid about $20 for it and about $5.25 a box for the shells.
Club I'm a member of does indeed have some very good shooters, rking22, a couple even offer instruction. I figure once I have 500-1000 empty hulls to load I may be able to find some suitable powder but I've been very wrong about this powder situation so far. I think I'll buy another case tomorrow before the sale ends.

[HeavyMetal]

Never hurts to have ready to go hulls, LOL. If the price is right buy another flat.

Powder is coming back just do research on the best load before you search for a powder to use, me I look at the genereated pressure and like tyo use loads that are on the low pressure side, figure that makes less felt recoil.

[TXGunNut]

Never hurts to have ready to go hulls, LOL. If the price is right buy another flat. -HeavyMetal

Great minds think alike, just got in with another case. ;-) No hurry to start loading, @ $6.57/box it'll take a big box of hulls to justify a loader. If I'd opted for the 28ga I'd be ordering the loader tonight. Brought home the Lyman shotshell manual to do a little homework.
Geez....another loading manual!


:groner:

[TXGunNut]

Seems powder won't be a problem for awhile, just "found" full/nearly full 1 lb cans of Winchester Super Target AA, 452AA, Dupont 700X, Hodgdon HS-7 and two pounds of Universal on my powder shelves. Even have a few hundred 209's in the primer cache. Hmmm.....

[HeavyMetal]

452AA/ SuperTarget is my go to 45 acp powder! Bullseye for 12 gauge 7/8 target load, bluedot for 28 gauge the 20 I am still playing with when time permits.


Sad part is I now have the hots for one of those ATI Calvary O/U's in 410 they come with screw in chokes don't ya know.

Reckon a new 410 loader will be in my future if I'm not careful, LOL.

Now looking for a good price on both the ATI and a flat of 3 inch 410's!

[ohland]

Another fly in the ointment is a Turkish shotgun imported by Academy. Saw one in 20 ga for under $400 and it was actually quite a handy little shotgun.

Yes, the Yildiz. The unfortunate part is the sole US importer is Academy Sports, and as best I can tell, Academy only sells them from their stores, not online. To us barbarians howling in the frigid wilderness of Wisconsin, the closest stores are SW Missouri and Tennessee, IIRC.

20ga Elegant A5, nice looking boxlock. 5 1/4 pounds.
http://www.yildizshotgun.com/en/elg_09.html

If they had a 28ga SxS, I would be sorely tempted to do the 500 or so mile roadtrip...

[TXGunNut]

Very nice, just wonder how they hold up. My scattergun mentor/enabler has some very nice O/U's but his favorite is a 28 ga Huglu. Those Turks seem to know something about old school firearms, apparently some modern ones as well.

[ohland]

Very nice, just wonder how they hold up.

Old retrobate has two Huglu (CZ) and so far for hunting, they are working after two years. 28ga, I believe. No super mag loads. No continuous trap or skeet shooting. I know that Yildiz is a different maker, but some Turkish guns are OK.

You are in Academy Sports country, if there is one close by, take a look at a Yildiz.... For a light 20 SxS, they have both a silver and a black finished action. 5 and a quarter pounds... The wood on them varies. From posts, it seems that Academy won't special order them and you get what you get. Unfortunate.

[TXGunNut]

The 28 ga Huglu I'm familiar with has had pretty heavy skeet use for the last 5-6 years and still feels tight to me. There's a new Academy south of me, will try to stop in some day. There's one in Lewisville but I don't like the traffic. The used Yildiz I've handled was used and a bit loose but that could have been abuse. A SxS would be fun, I've always wanted a "coach gun" or even an old wallhanger.

[ohland]

The used Yildiz I've handled was used and a bit loose but that could have been abuse.

Do be aware that a number of Yildiz use a 7075 aluminum frame. I've wondered how well it stands up to time. In surfing for info on them, there does not seem to be any complaining that the Yildiz aluminum frame guns don't last. When they have a 28ga SxS I will get very nervous...

[TXGunNut]

Shooting buddy cancelled while I was enroute to the club this morning, went ahead without him. Nobody was shooting skeet on either field in the 95 degree but a couple of older gents were shooting trap and another group was on the sporting clays range. I decided I was up for a round of trap so I shot a round with one of my new friends, he was a huge help showing me how the game was played and how the voice-activated trap worked. Pretty slick! He was shooting a beautiful Remington 31 12ga.
Somehow I managed to break more than I missed in my first attempt to shoot clay birds in over 20 years, shot a second round after the gun cooled off and only missed six or seven. For some reason when the bird went left I had a hard time getting on it, something to work on next time. Enjoyed myself so much I snagged a couple cases of Winchester Super X 7/8oz loads at Academy this afternoon.

[lefty o]

like they say, of the clay target sports trap is the easiest to learn, but the hardest to master. if your shooting 18 or 19's, thats not bad for a novice. as for having a hard time getting on the hard lefts. i'll assume your a right handed shooter, and that the problem of seeing the birds is worst at station 1, and a tad better at station 2. now the question is, are you a one eye or two eye shooter? having a hard time getting on a hard left is really your not visually picking the bird up fast enough coming out of the house. which brings us to how oyu set yourself up on the house. first there are 5 stations, so look at the top of the trap house, and divide it. when your on post one, you need to set up so your pointing about 6" in from the left corner of the house. from post 2 you set up about a third of the way in from the left, from 3 set up centered,4 about 1/3 the way in from the right corner, and 5 about 6" in from the right corner. now if your a one eyes shooter, you need to hold below the roof of the trap house in order to see the bird come out, usually just below the top of the house. if oyur a two eyed shooter you can set up below or even above the top, as even above with 2 eyes, you can still see the bird come out from under your gun. now if oyu set up like ive explained, and you still have a hard time picking up on the hard left, hold a few inches below the top of the house, but about a foot or two off to the left side of the house. this is much easier to explain and show in person than to try an type it, lol.i know where your at though, im a LH shooter and used to have a hard time catching the hard rights from post 4 and 5. could never see them until they were so far gone i couldnt catch them. with a little practice on how oyu set up on the house you'll find what works for you, as not everyone see's them exactly the same. keep practicing, that frist 25 straight is gratifying, and 50 straights can get you really jazzed up. any questions , feel free to ask, im a pretty decent trap shooter. i shoot against several ATA All Americans, and can hold my own against them, except at doubles! LOL if you really get hooked on the sport, its truly worth taking a clinic from the likes of Nora Ross, Harlan Cambell, or Phil Kiner. I took Nora Ross's clinic many years ago, and while it didnt make me much better at the 16 yard line, she lit my yardage game on fire, so much so ive been club yardage champ many time shooting back at the fence. i found her clinic to really be worth the money, in not so much that i became a better shooter, but i learned how to identify and troublshoot problems with my shooting. good luck with this addicting and frustrating sport!

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, lefty o. You are exactly right. I'm not a novice, I'm a pretty dreadful wingshooter aspiring to be a novice. I am an old school pistol & rifle shooter and can't keep my left eye open to save my life. Thanks for investing all the keystrokes, makes perfect sense to me. I know what to work on now. Getting on a target quickly is going to be an adjustment for someone who's been shooting mostly rifles for the past decade or so.
I'm a member of North Texas Shooters Assn north of Denton, TX. Very nice facility and some first-rate shooters who are generally willing to help out the new guy, just like most comp shooters. I'm not interested in comp shooting, I played that game for years and quite frankly I'm not interested in doing it again. Gas and motels were cheaper back then, too! Come to think of it, I'd have all the competition I wanted on my home range. Thanks for the help, if you're in the area drop by for a round or two on me.....as soon as it cools off a bit!

[TXGunNut]

Got my rebate check from Browning today, very nice. :mrgreen: Finished reading the Lyman shotshell manual last night and I'm leaning towards a single-stage MEC, maybe even a Lee Load-All. I loaded some pretty decent ammo on my 12ga Lee machine 20+ years ago. The progressive presses seem too fussy to me with little or no increase in quality. Seems my Universal Clays "pistol powder" is a pretty good choice for the 20ga; low pressure and 1200fps. At the price of factory ammo I have plenty of time to think about presses and hunt (hoard) powder.
Looks like my enabler has time to shoot a round or two of skeet Sunday, seems my club has some type of clay bird shoot every Saturday this month other than this weekend. Nothing like a little competition to develop skills....but I said I wasn't going to do that. ;-)