Has anyone ever machined the bevel base off a Lee 6-cavity 452-200-SWC?

[C. Latch]

I currently only have one .45ACP mold. I like the mold (NOE 452-230-HP) but would like something lighter and easier to cast with (i.e. no HP provisions) and faster, for making plinking ammo.

It looks like the Lee 452-200-SWC would be perfect if it wasn't a bevel-based design. If I end up pushing this bullet hard, I don't want to deal with the leading that sometimes is associated with beveled bases. In light of that, how hard would it be - and who does such work - to machine the bevel off of a Lee 6-cavity mold, make new provisions for the sprue plate, and turn this mold into a ~180 (+/-) grain flat-base?

Would it be easier to just go with the similar (but shorter-nosed) Lee TL452-200-SWC? I think it has a flat base.

[Dusty Bannister]

I took the Lee 452-200-SWC and reamed the bevel out of the mold so it is a flat based mold. If you remove enough from the mold top to reduce that 200 grain bullet to a 180 grain bullet, you will have a very thin base band and a fairly short bearing surface. I do not think you are going to get to push it hard with a thin base band. Off to the shed to file down the base to see what a 180 grain bullet will look like. Dusty

[RobS]

Forum member Buckshot does this work. I created a homemade reamer that chucks into my drill press which I used to ream the bevel out of a 6 cavity 452-230 TC mold. A person could also fly cut the top of the mold off and reduce the base band and lighten up the weight. About any decent machine shop could probably do this. There are other forum members who are pretty crafty with tools that may be able to help you. I would post a thread for the service you are after and see who PM's you.

[Dusty Bannister]

I just do not think that there will be sufficient base band left if you try to remove enough of the mold to create a 180 grain casting. I realize that my alloy might be softer than yours, and I have already reamed the bevel out of my mold. My casting runs about 214.4 grains. I have gone from about .648 down to about .607 and the weight is still 194 grains. I have removed about half the base band. Time to move on to plan B. Good luck. Dusty

[country gent]

The bevel base can be reamed out with a little care and patience. A machine tool shop should have decimil reamers by the .001 increments. Order one up and use it slowly to remove the bevel base.

[jblee10]

I think you could shorten the base of that bullet and still have enough driving band. I use the 452-200-RF in a Springfield XD and it works great for me. Saves me some lead and still hits things hard.

[C. Latch]

So, could I have half the bevel machined off and the other half opened up, and leave enough base band to work?

[yondering]

Ream the bevel out (a 29/64" reamer works great), don't mill down the top of the mold. You won't gain anything useful by milling the base, and may cause yourself problems with a narrow driving band. This bullet with a plain base a great shooting 200gr target bullet, one of my favorites for an easy-casting and accurate .45 Auto bullet. It shoots really well this way.

The TL version doesn't shoot as well, and would be a poor second choice.

[C. Latch]

Ream the bevel out (a 29/64" reamer works great), don't mill down the top of the mold. You won't gain anything useful by milling the base, and may cause yourself problems with a narrow driving band. This bullet with a plain base a great shooting 200gr target bullet, one of my favorites for an easy-casting and accurate .45 Auto bullet. It shoots really well this way.

The TL version doesn't shoot as well, and would be a poor second choice.


One of my 1911s shoots as much as 5" high at 25 yards with 230+ bullets, depending on how fast I push them, and I'm concerned that a 200-grain mold might end up weighing 205 or more, maybe 215 if I had the bevel removed - certainly, a 215 would print lower than the 230, but I'm not sure it would be enough to justify the costs. At some point it would be cheaper to just get a different front sight (but night sights aren't cheap).

[fatelk]

A few years ago I used a fly cutter to mill the bevel off of a six cavity Lee 452-230-TC. It cast heavy to begin with, so the weight went from about 240 down to 230. At that time I had access to a mill, so it was pretty quick and easy. The sprue plate went back on just fine, no need to modify it as I recall.

If you take just the bevel off you should have plenty of driving band left, but I doubt the weight will go as low as 180. I would expect under 200 a little, maybe 190 depending on just what the mold casts to begin with.

Before I machined mine down I carefully measured and calculated the cavity volume I would be removing by the density of lead, and figured just how much the bullets should weigh. After I was done I weighed some and was impressed that I managed to do it right, as they came out exactly right.

[Motor]

If you go with the reamer method a piloted reamer would be best. The pilot will "pick up" the current diameter and guide the reamer.

If I was doing it I would locate and bore each cavity on a milling machine. I have done this to make the gas check diameter larger.

Motor

[C. Latch]

The TL version doesn't shoot as well, and would be a poor second choice.


I wonder why it doesn't shoot as well? It occurred to me that I might could trim a hair off that one, too, and accomplish the same thing, more or less.

[leadhead]

I have that same bullet in 357 with the bevel base and I cut the bevel out with a sharp
pocket knife. The aluminum is soft enough so you can do this pretty easy. Doesn't
mater if it's a little rough, as your going to size it anyhow.
Denny

[yondering]

One of my 1911s shoots as much as 5" high at 25 yards with 230+ bullets, depending on how fast I push them, and I'm concerned that a 200-grain mold might end up weighing 205 or more, maybe 215 if I had the bevel removed - certainly, a 215 would print lower than the 230, but I'm not sure it would be enough to justify the costs. At some point it would be cheaper to just get a different front sight (but night sights aren't cheap).

Sure seems like fixing the gun to shoot right makes more sense than loading special ammo just for that one. Just my opinion though.


If you go with the reamer method a piloted reamer would be best. The pilot will "pick up" the current diameter and guide the reamer.

If I was doing it I would locate and bore each cavity on a milling machine. I have done this to make the gas check diameter larger.

Motor

Not much room for a pilot on the reamer, unless it's sized to pilot on the lube groove. Have you actually done it that way?

I've reamed out a lot of bevel bases; a chucking reamer in a drill press is "self-aligning" enough that it gives really good results. No need to make it more difficult. Trying to indicate off the sharp bevel edges in a mill can be frustrating, at best, and no more accurate, in my experience.


I wonder why it doesn't shoot as well? It occurred to me that I might could trim a hair off that one, too, and accomplish the same thing, more or less.

The 200 TL SWC is a completely different design; different nose shape and length, different balance point, it's not just a TL version of the same bullet. IMO the TL grooves don't grip the rifling as well either.

[yondering]

A few years ago I used a fly cutter to mill the bevel off of a six cavity Lee 452-230-TC. It cast heavy to begin with, so the weight went from about 240 down to 230. At that time I had access to a mill, so it was pretty quick and easy. The sprue plate went back on just fine, no need to modify it as I recall.


My 230-TC molds cast heavy too. I do recommend milling the base off that design, rather than reaming. It has a pretty thick rear driving band anyway.

[C. Latch]

Alright, y'all win. I ordered a taller front sight (anyone need a .180" novak-cut tritium front?) which should drop me down to dead-on at 25 yards with most ammo. I also ordered a two-cavity 452-200-swc mold. I'll start with the 2-cavity; if it casts as easy as my Lee .358-158-swc it will make enough bullets to keep me occupied for a while.

[captaint]

leadhead mentioned using a pocket knife. He's right. The Lee molds are REALLY soft alum. I did my 38-55 2 cav mold with a sharp 3/8 drill bit. Took my time, but it did work. Any minor defects will get ironed out in the Star. I did this by hand, wrapping a rag around the bit and going slow...

[Boogieman]

I reamed the bevel out of my Lee 200 gr. swc . It now casts 210 gr. & shoots great out of my Colts. I couldn't see any difference in the POI

[williamwaco]

I did it with the Lee TL-358-158.SWC
Only took a few minutes.

I used a drill bit. I think it was 23/64.
Turned by hand with a T-handle.
Worked very well.

29/64 might do for the .45

[C. Latch]

I did it with the Lee TL-358-158.SWC
Only took a few minutes.

I used a drill bit. I think it was 23/64.
Turned by hand with a T-handle.
Worked very well.

29/64 might do for the .45


What are the chances that a 29/64 drill bit would work well enough, if I just put a t-handle on it and eyeballed it? Can I get it straight enough to clean up my errors in the sizing die?

[yondering]

A 29/64 reamer can be had for $6-$8, and will do a much better job. Whether using a reamer or drill bit, I wouldn't do either by hand, unless you just really don't care about the quality of the end result.

[country gent]

A simple drill press and vise then a stop on the table to keep vise from spinning. You want the vise to be able too float allowing the reamer and mold to self alighn. Chuck the reamer in the spindle and set the stop mid driving band and bring it down lightlyy slowly turning the spindle by hand Lube reamer flutes with beeswax or oil, some waterless hand cleaners will work for this also. Under spindle pressure turn spindle by hand keeping the reamer cutting slow and easy. Cut to stop and repeat each cavity. Next cast some bullets with the mold IDing each cavitys bullets. Drill an 3/16" hole into base of each bullet only part way thry and glue a pin in them. Coat number 1 bullet with flitz or metal polish and insert in cavity give it several back forth twists making a full revolution, repeat with each cavity1-6. Repeat with another number 1 bullet cavites 6-1. Repeat with bullets from other 5 cavities and cavities will be as close as possible to each other and any issues from reaming should be removed.

[williamwaco]

What are the chances that a 29/64 drill bit would work well enough, if I just put a t-handle on it and eyeballed it? Can I get it straight enough to clean up my errors in the sizing die?

It depends on the diameter of your individual mold. 29/64 = 453125.
The bit you buy will probably drill .453 to .454
I like my bullets to size at .452.

You can see how mine worked here . . .

http://reloadingtips.com/pages/exp_bb-vs-pb-accuracy.htm

[C. Latch]

A box from brownells showed up today. I installed the new sight, ran a magazine through (sights appear to be very close to regulated now ) then turned the pot on while I cleaned the new lee mold. I cleaned it with soap and water, heated it with a torch, smoked the cavities lightly, heated it again, and one cavity dropped a good bullet on the second pour; the other dropped good on the fifth pour. That's hard to beat for $20. I made a nice little pile of bullets then loaded up a few test rounds to try before work tomorrow.

[C. Latch]

So far so good. I only loaded 10 rounds and fired 7 this morning (they fed fine, offhand) then the other three this afternoon. At 20 yards (over 4 grains of 700-x) they went into a nice, round 1.25" cluster. That could easily be a fluke; this particular 1911 has never shot better than 3" at 25 yards with any ammo, but I've never shot a SWC in it before. I'm going to try and load up more ammo tonight and shoot a full magazine off a rest in the morning.

[C. Latch]

After shooting this bullet a bit more, I'm a bit worried. I have always shot RN or FMJ or HP type ammo in my 1911s, and both of them have ran 100%, with any magazine and any ammo.

Now, the 1911 in question (my carry gun, with thousands of trouble-free rounds under its belt) is being quirky with this new bullet. I'm having every 3rd round or so jump ahead of the slide, so that the round ends up in the chamber but in front of the extractor, creating a malfunction that is difficult to clear. That might be handy for malfunction drills, but I really want something that runs as reliably as this gun has always ran. FWIW, I get this malfunction with both wilson 47 mags with a smooth follower and metalforms with dimples.

In light of the fact that I now have a taller sight (200's print a touch low at 25 yards, 230's are pretty much dead on, 250's are just a tad high, all depending on velocity) there's not much reason to stick with the lighter weight of this bullet. Should I just scrap the idea and buy one of the round-nosed or TC designs that Lee makes? I want something cheap that drops bullets at a faster pace than I can keep up with the NOE HP mold.

[yondering]

That's odd. You might try adjusting the powder charge up or down a bit, or changing the recoil spring if yours is worn. I'd suspect the magazines though, and you're not the first to have issues with the Wilson 47 mags, despite their price.

If you're looking at different molds, and want a fast-casting Lee 6 cavity, the only other Lee 45 Auto bullet I like very much is the 230 TC. That one can benefit from having the top of the mold milled off, as it often casts heavy anyway, and has a thick rear driving band. The 230 RN-TL is OK if you like tumble lube grooves, but the standard groove 230-1R RN isn't even worth considering, IMO.

[country gent]

It is probably a issue with the oal of the cartridge try loading a little longer or shorter if possible.

[C. Latch]

OK, I tried that; I had been seating them around 1.226" and I tried 1.221" with no change; I then tried seating them flush or slightly below the case mouth; no change. I then backed my seater plug out a full turn and tried 1.254" or so, and I only had 6 rounds of primed brass left; those 6 ran fine.

I suppose it's possible that a shorter round has more room to get moving out of the magazine, and comes out too fast, and the longer OAL forces them to come out a bit slower and the extractor has time to stay in front of the case mouth. I've often read of the intricacies of getting SWCs to feed.......if this cures the problem, I'll be thrilled; if not, I'll switch back to heavier RNs.

Headed out for Saturday with the family; will try to test further tonight.

[C. Latch]

I tried several rounds today seated to 1.255" or so. I had one malfunction in two magazines - again, the case jumping out in front of the extractor - but one in two magazines is an improvement. I'll try 1.27" or so tomorrow.

In the meantime, when I lengthened my seating depth, my current load (3.9 grains of 700-x with a 200) won't activate the slide lock on the last round. That's almost certainly due to a light load, light bullet, and heavy recoil spring, so I'll go up to 4.5 grains tomorrow (still nowhere near max) and expect that problem to disappear. I don't want to get into swapping recoil springs, etc - it's not worth it to have to keep up with which spring is in the gun, etc.

[Boogieman]

The 200gr. Lee H&G style should feed at 1.240 or longer. A weak recoil spring will allow the slide to hit too hard & jar the top round in the mag. forward ahead of the extractor.

[C. Latch]

At this point it appears that seating depth isn't critical in this gun. Every length I have tried has fed - and while longer rounds have had fewer instances of jumping in front of the extractor, it's still happening - but I have tested both of these magazines (this weekend!) with NOE 452-230s and they do not exhibit this behavior, nor have they ever with any other ammo.

The recoil spring is an 18.5# Wolff. Could it be that the lighter mass of the SWC is making them more susceptible to this 'jump' than a heavier 230-grain ammo? If so, it owuld appear that switching to a lighter spring might help - but, then, I have to keep up with which spring is in the gun, unless I just moved to a 16# spring and left it there.

[Boogieman]

You might want to check your extractor shape & tension. If it's not holding the fired case long enough the empty can prevent it from catching the next round. It happens on the last round because there isn't anything in the mag. to push it out. Try loading 1 round, removing the mag. & firing it to see if it extracts properly .

[C. Latch]

The only thing that makes sense is that the rounds are jumping the extractor because of a mismatch between recoil spring weight, magazine spring weight, and the actual weight (mass) of the loaded round.

To that end, today I tried a #14 recoil spring. With the dimpled metalform magazine, one round malfunctioned out of two magzines. With the WC mag, there were 3 malfunctions. I lean towards this being an issue with the follower shape, not the spring stiffness.

Anyway, 1 malfunction out of 2 (dimpled follower!) magazines is a step in the right direction. I don't want to decrease spring weight further. I will try increasing magazine spring weight next.

As an aside, the gun still eats the NOE 452-230's, in HP or flat point configuration, so easily that I'm tempted to buy a 5-cavity version of that mold. The extra weight would be fine, now, with the taller front sight. I've loaded them with variable charges of 700-x and some warm to downright hot charges of 800-x, and the pistol seems to be more accurate with the solids than the HPs. I'm thinking that's partly due to the solids deforming less on the feedramp. I may try to actually group them off a rest this weekend.

[C. Latch]

....and I couldn't wait to test a stiffer magazine spring.

Seven rounds. Three malfunctions.

I'm done, for now. Too many other projects to work on.

[C. Latch]

Ok, I lied. I tried something else.

I dug out some old USGI magazines - vietnam era, tapered feed lips, not supposed to feed wadcutters......and I just ran a magazine through the gun with no 'extractor jumps'.

Unfortunately, I had one failure to completely feed. I may or may not be able to 'tune out' that one malfunction by tweaking seating depth. I'll load a magazine a half-turn of the seater long, then a half-turn shorter than normal, and see what happens. I'm thinking the long ones will run 100%.

[C. Latch]

I tried seating to 1.285" or so. Ran perfect, but one failure to go into battery. No surprise there. Shortened them to 1.262" or so (crimped to .471", random mixed brass, switched from 700-x to 5.0 grains of Green Dot because I have a rusty can I need to use up) and it runs like a sewing machine. Not a single 'extractor jump' this afternoon.

Finally!

[yondering]

I never had issues with that Lee 200 SWC bullet in GI mags either; it always ran great. Glad you got if figured out.