10 cents a round for .22LR

[GhostHawk]

http://www.surplusammo.com/22-lr-armscor-precision-cci-blazer-high-velocity-hv-700-rounds/

Was looking for .22 lr this morning to replace stocks and came across this deal.

500 rounds from Armscor 36 grain High Velocity Hollow Point ( Company is in Manilla) + 200 rounds of CCI Blazer RN HV.

10 cents a round. Just ordered 3 packages and shipping was 16$.

No limit until supply's are gone.

So here is your chance to restock at a reasonable price. No 90$ bricks, no fuss, no sweat.
70$ plus shipping for 700 rounds. In my case x 3 so 210$ + shipping for 2100 rounds.

Kinda relieved to know it is coming, don't have to worry about it.

No connection with me to either company, just seemed like an honest deal.
Thought I'd share with my brothers.

[osteodoc08]

No offense, but at $0.10 a round, I'm gonna stick to shooting my revolvers that are loaded for way less than that. On the order of 4-7 cents each.

That being said, it is becoming more common place and seems to be easing up.

[DeanWinchester]

I can load 9mm for 5 or 6¢ each. If I wanna plink with a rifle, I can load cast in 223 for about the same. Less than 10¢ for sure.


Who would EVER thought 10¢ each for .22 rim fire would be a good deal.

[brtelec]

I would not pay .10 a round for .22. You can get it from Trops, J&G and Palmetto for .10 a round. I recently saw it on the shelf in my LGS for .08. I will wait. I have enough .22 from before the bulls--t to keep the grandkids shooting for many years. I will just save it for them and shoot my cast reloads. I do understand however the elation in finding it at this price in comparison to the prices that everyone was originally gouging at.

[30calflash]

GhostHawk, thanks for the heads up, I'll pass it along to some friends looking.

Finding it and getting it at a price you like is what it's about. Those who are waiting for $15 bricks better not hold their breath.

When metals went up 5+ years ago a lot of people who would never be seen with a 22 went out and purchased one or more. CF rounds were hard to find and doubled in price, remember?

So when the 22 became very popular and the supply lessened it created the demand. Some folks have more cash than time and pay the dollars for it. Supply and demand, simple.

Now some CF reloading products are more available and can be had so CF is gonna become the rage again. In the northeast primers are back, powder is starting to. 22 will come back at a decent price but the truth is it won't be at the number we were used to paying a few years back.

That said I will not pay the numbers that some have paid or are asking. Not enhancing their portfolio, sorry. I've been looking locally and have paid about 6-7 cents a round for bulk or up to $.10 for boxed good quality from a known good manufacturer. That's a mouthful but there seems to be a lot of floor sweepings going into some companies bulk packaged products.

I've enough of my own, I've been acquiring a little here and there for friends, in general. Not all that I find, a box or brick every couple weeks. There's enough out there for everybody IF you don't buy it all. JMHO.

[dtknowles]

I can load 9mm for 5 or 6¢ each. If I wanna plink with a rifle, I can load cast in 223 for about the same. Less than 10¢ for sure.


Who would EVER thought 10¢ each for .22 rim fire would be a good deal.

Surprise, loaded ammo is more expensive than reloads and my .22 is more accurate than my 9mm. If I was out of .22s I would pay 10 cents a piece.

Tim

[30calflash]

Also, a dollar isn't worth a dollar, can't keep thinking that way. If it's affordable and you can use it/need it ........ It's not getting any cheaper.

[richhodg66]

I bought a .22 Hornet. Neck sized brass, a small pistol primer. 1.5 grains of Bullseye and Lyman #225438 sized to .225 and lubed in LLA will consistently group at 25 yards with all but the very best .22 LR rifles. Cost per round is way under 10 cents. I think I'll stick with this until prices become sensible again.

[bangerjim]

I can reload almost ANYTHING I shoot for less than 10 cents. But.....22LR's are fun! I have a good store of them and those little guys, out of a long gun, are awsum!

Picked up 400 of them a couple weeks ago for 5.6 cents per round. That is not too bad.

And my 22 revolver is more accurate than my 9mm semi also!!!!!!!! Go figure. I just love revolvers and long guns. I am in heaven with my 45LC carbine in my hand and my 45LC 6 shooter on my side!!!!!!!

banger

[NavyVet1959]

When they get back to $7-8 per 500-round brick, I'll think about it.

[lefty o]

When they get back to $7-8 per 500-round brick, I'll think about it.
you'll be waiting a long time then, because they cant make 22lr ammo for that cost, much less sell it for that.

[Finster101]

Just got some Blazer which my 10/22 likes. 2.29 per box of 50 which I thought was reasonable.

[DeanWinchester]

Surprise, loaded ammo is more expensive than reloads and my .22 is more accurate than my 9mm. If I was out of .22s I would pay 10 cents a piece.

Tim

Sure, but I've never had a .22 that was any mor accurate an my cz527 .223 - RCBS 55g boolit and a little green dot. One ragged hole all day.

Great thing about guns, they make so many different kinds. Everybody can find what they like.
I didn't like .22's BEFORE they got expensive and hard to find ammo for so any argument I make is really one sided.

[hardy]

Hi,in my meager experience the words "Armscorp" and "accuracy" are not synonymous,this pertaining to .22LR.Dangit,must of had some shredded dictionary with my breakfast today.....Cheers,Mike

[JeffinNZ]

Hi,in my meager experience the words "Armscorp" and "accuracy" are not synonymous,

My semi custom rolling block with a match chamber shoots this ammo really very well BUT my experience is a lot of misfires. The headstamp is 'T' and marketed here as High Impact or previously as Sterling. Buyer beware.

[FLHTC]

When they get back to $7-8 per 500-round brick, I'll think about it.

Good thinking.:shock:

[crazy mark]

I saw some 525 rd packs for $45 at a gun show today. That is .0857 cents a round. He hadn't sold any by noon. Couldn't understand why. I explained as he had paid less than $25 for it that was too much profit margin and people were fed up with it being overpriced. Of course he didn't like my comment as I also said I wouldn't pay over $35 for them.

[John Boy]

I can reload almost ANYTHING I shoot for less than 10 cents. But.....22LR's are fun! Jim, yes 22LR's are fun. I reload mine at 4 cents a round with 4.5gr of Swiss Null B. Average 980 fps - accurate groups and no blow tubing or patching need for about a 100 round shot string

[dragon813gt]

When they get back to $7-8 per 500-round brick, I'll think about it.

Will never happen. Raw material cost alone prevents this from happening. $20 a brick has been the norm for as long as I can remember. I'm obviously younger than most here. There is no way you will ever see $7-$8 unless the US dollar makes a ridiculous rebound.

[williamwaco]

They have been plentiful at Gander and Bass Pro this week.
5 to 8 cents depending on brand.

$7 to $8 per 500 round brick ? ? ?

I can't even remember that far back.

[Airman Basic]

Used to buy these guys for 5 bucks. Sometimes less. Oh well.


110473

[mrspradlin]

They are a local store for me. Use to stop by once a week and pick up stuff. Sandyhook took place. They went from a $25 FFL transfer fee to $55 fee. The day of the shooting ALL prices went up 3 to 4 fold on everything in the store. Federal 525 bulk packs were marked at $109.99.
I havent been back since.

[lefty o]

They are a local store for me. Use to stop by once a week and pick up stuff. Sandyhook took place. They went from a $25 FFL transfer fee to $55 fee. The day of the shooting ALL prices went up 3 to 4 fold on everything in the store. Federal 525 bulk packs were marked at $109.99.
I havent been back since.
i wouldnt go back either, but i would sure as heck let them know why.

[fatelk]

Seven or eight bucks per brick (adjusted for inflation from when you could buy them for that) sounds likely to me, when supply catches up some day. :)

Funny thing is, I remember buying .22lr ammo in the mid '80s; a good deal (at least wherever I bought them) was under $1 box/50. Adjusted for inflation, that's over $20 per brick in today's money.

[osteodoc08]

Honestly, I feel they will settle in around 6-8 cents a round for typical fodder. I'll buy at that point and stock up heavily as space and money allows. Same with primers, powder, lead, etc.

yall do make a good point on how much FUN they are. I still stand by my original post but can understand excitement as it's becoming more plentiful and cheaper.

Thank you OP for the heads up. I wasn't trying to be thumbing my nose if it seemed that way.

[badbob454]

i bought some at the 7/11 for 5$ per brick of 500 in the late 60's i found sportsmans warehouse locally is selling a box of 525 copper plated for $26.oo very reasonable in these times of hoarding .. just get in line when the delivery day comes .. they are one of the few that dont OVERCHARGE...

[williamwaco]

Honestly, I feel they will settle in around 6-8 cents a round for typical fodder. I'll buy at that point and stock up heavily as space and money allows. Same with primers, powder, lead, etc.

yall do make a good point on how much FUN they are. I still stand by my original post but can understand excitement as it's becoming more plentiful and cheaper.

Thank you OP for the heads up. I wasn't trying to be thumbing my nose if it seemed that way.

That is what they are now - around here. 5 to 6 cents for most and 8 cents for CCIs.

( Of course there is the match stuff. I don't even check prices on that. I have never bought a box in my life.)

[FLHTC]

Seven or eight bucks per brick (adjusted for inflation from when you could buy them for that) sounds likely to me, when supply catches up some day. :)

Funny thing is, I remember buying .22lr ammo in the mid '80s; a good deal (at least wherever I bought them) was under $1 box/50. Adjusted for inflation, that's over $20 per brick in today's money.

That's saying they'll be $16 per thousand? Lets compare that to primers, which don't have anywhere near the brass needed for a 22lr round and they don't need a 32 grain lead bullet. Do you see them coming back to $16 per thousand?

[FLHTC]

Honestly, I feel they will settle in around 6-8 cents a round for typical fodder. I'll buy at that point and stock up heavily as space and money allows. Same with primers, powder, lead, etc.

yall do make a good point on how much FUN they are. I still stand by my original post but can understand excitement as it's becoming more plentiful and cheaper.

Thank you OP for the heads up. I wasn't trying to be thumbing my nose if it seemed that way.

They won't settle in at anything less than they're bring now. When was the last time you went to the store and saw an item come down in price, that was in such demand?
Can you imagine Chevrolet doing that? "We're caught up now folks so we'll reduce our profits so you can buy more and we can make less" Yeah right!!!

[dragon813gt]

They won't settle in at anything less than they're bring now. When was the last time you went to the store and saw an item come down in price, that was in such demand?


ARs are the perfect example. They shot to sky high prices after Sandy Hook. Base line models were selling for close to $2k around here. Everyone said that it was the new norm and don't expect them to be as cheap as they were pre Sandy Hook. I was one of the ones that said this. And boy was I wrong. Eventually supply caught up to demand and prices came down. They are at or below pre Sandy Hook levels. While it is odd for prices to come back down. There is a precedent w/ shooting related items.

[FLHTC]

ARs are the perfect example. They shot to sky high prices after Sandy Hook. Base line models were selling for close to $2k around here. Everyone said that it was the new norm and don't expect them to be as cheap as they were pre Sandy Hook. I was one of the ones that said this. And boy was I wrong. Eventually supply caught up to demand and prices came down. They are at or below pre Sandy Hook levels. While it is odd for prices to come back down. There is a precedent w/ shooting related items.

Not around here. Maybe the copies being built on the AR platform but certainly not the Colts. I never was a fan of the tactical stuff. One well placed shot is better than 30 that miss anyway.

[tja6435]

I've been able to score bricks of Blazer off Cabelas.com for around $28 before ship and tax. I recently got a 1k box of the Winchester M22 for $49.xx plus tax. They ship to the store free if one is nearby, still get stuck with the tax. Key to the Cabelas rimfire is to check early in the morning and check it often. They told me they sell a ton via their when I go to pick it up.

[w0fms]

CCI's -- both minimag and SV have been showing up locally for about 7.5c/rd. Now.. on a good day before, you could get CCI's for 7c.. so factoring in inflation it's still less of a difference than a pound of hamburger over the time period. I'm still waiting for the 4c Federal Jam o' matics, the 4c WWB WTH rounds, and the 5c Remington golden whatchamacallits to come back, but in general I prefer to spend the extra 2c a round on the "good stuff". They will be back soon, too...

The sad fact is that we are getting robbed blind with inflation now, and metals, powder, etc. are real durable goods.. In the past this was no problem (and is normal in a capitalist economy) because wages followed. Wages haven't followed in over ten years. (And as mathematically expected prices doubled on real items.) So both the right and left are correct. The government is stealing from us and so are the corporations, and especially the banks/insurance companies...

But when prices settle in-- they are starting to-- expect everything to be 10% - 15% higher.. that is mainly due to inflation, not fear anymore...

[dragon813gt]

Not around here. Maybe the copies being built on the AR platform but certainly not the Colts. I never was a fan of the tactical stuff. One well placed shot is better than 30 that miss anyway.

Only need to go online to see what in talking about. Just look a the price of Pmags. While you aren't into these type of firearms. I have little interest as well. The fact remains that their prices spiked, and have now backed down to what they were two years ago. I don't judge a market as a whole by local price. BTW, the AR is not a colt design so it's a copy ;)

[lefty o]

Only need to go online to see what in talking about. Just look a the price of Pmags. While you aren't into these type of firearms. I have little interest as well. The fact remains that their prices spiked, and have now backed down to what they were two years ago. I don't judge a market as a whole by local price. BTW, the AR is not a colt design so it's a copy ;)

actually AR magazines are the cheapest they have ever been right now.

[dragon813gt]

actually AR magazines are the cheapest they have ever been right now.

That was my point :beer:

[tja6435]

Picked up a Federal 525rd loose brick this morning at Sportsman's Warehouse for $24.99. Had bricks of Thunderbolts for $23.99 (I have quite a few already). Last time I was up there, they had CCI Mini Mags or Stingers for $23.99/300rd, which I picked up. I hadn't seen CCI for under $.08/ea for a long while. The guys stocking the shelves had a case of each type of bricks they were putting out. CCI primers are down to $32.99 up at the same store as well

[FLHTC]

Only need to go online to see what in talking about. Just look a the price of Pmags. While you aren't into these type of firearms. I have little interest as well. The fact remains that their prices spiked, and have now backed down to what they were two years ago. I don't judge a market as a whole by local price. BTW, the AR is not a colt design so it's a copy ;)

I never said it was. Armalite never receives any credit for the AR since Colt was the first supplier of the AR as a combat weapon. The previous attempts by Armalite was for a a pilot survival weapon. Colt is, and always will be the one against which all others will be judged. I'm not a fan of tactical stuff but i like service rifles. [smilie=w:

I judge a local market because that's where my money goes. That's what i meant by, "Around here".

[enfieldphile]

When they get back to $7-8 per 500-round brick, I'll think about it.

Not unless you have a Delorean modified by Doc Brown! 22 million jigawats of electricity to power the time circuts and the Flux-capacitor!

Doc Brown said, "Marty, when this baby hits 88mph, you're gonna see some serious (slang word for fecal matter)!

[gandydancer]

I just sold some Federal Gold Metal 22 lr Target & CCI standard & Blazer 22 lr 13.000 rds at $10.00 bucks per 100 rds & CCI 22 mag per $20.00 per 50 rds to a LGS this hording is more PIA then its worth. neck & Back surgery's have kept me from any real shooting for the last three years. another 10.000 rounds going to lgs friday CCI 100 rd packs. he sells them for $7.50 per 50 rds. To much of a PIA to ship out UPS. I will keep a few to plink with. I shoot mostly Black powder cartridge when i do shoot. GD

[dtknowles]

It is time to unload, I just bought another 550 rounds, the price is bound to drop.

Tim

[GhostHawk]

Supply and demand. After sandy hook yes AR's, mags, etc were artificially raised. People were "anticipating" a demand which did not really exist. 2 years later those inflated prices are back where they were and lower as people try to get out from under stuff they bought in a panic.
What is driving those prices down is there are more people selling than buying.

.22 ammo, ammo makers have been running full bore for 2 years now and can not keep up with demand.
Hence prices are not going to fall, they will at best remain here, but are more likely to rise.

If your not sitting on a good pile of .22lr, or if you need to replace rounds you've fired, this may be as good as it gets!

Or it may not.

Buy, or don't buy, but quit busting my chops about .22 going back to 2011 prices, cause IMO it isn't going to happen.

"The Great Ammo shortage of 2011-2013" is not the same as the Sandy Hook scare.
I was trying to do you a favor and your treating me like you caught me robbing your house.

Ok, won't happen again. Lesson learned

[dragon813gt]

The demand for ARs was there. Otherwise the prices wouldn't have gone up like they did. You are correct that supply overtook demand but that took a year to happen. Eventually the same thing will happen to 22. More and more is showing up everyday. And you can see from prices posted that the big box stores have only increased the price by around 25%. Not the exorbitant price that smaller dealers are charging. If the big stores have an ample supply then the small dealers will have to come into line w/ pricing. Asking for $10 a brick is not going to happen. But there is no reason it could not fall back to $20.

[osteodoc08]

It is time to unload, I just bought another 550 rounds, the price is bound to drop.

Tim


I did this a few months ago and turned my $120 investment into a new stainless Ruger BH in 357. Woot Woot.

I just bought a 525rd brick for $35.00. Even if I factor in my selling the 5K roudns off and resupplying, I still made out like a bandit.

[NavyVet1959]

I've probably got 2 or 3 bricks laying around that I bought back when they were $7-8 per 500-round brick. I just won't shoot any of my .22s until I can replace them at a price that I'm willing to pay. For me, $20 per brick is not that price.

[loaded303]

When they get back to $7-8 per 500-round brick, I'll think about it.

That's what I paid for my bricks. Still have them from the 80s. Gonna shoot cast reloads in my rifles and revolvers cheaper than the market price for the next 10.

[smokeywolf]

I think, if you ever want to see the prices come back down, you better not show the retailers that you think 10 cents a round is a good deal. Have you forgotten the way the free market works?

smokeywolf

[attrapereves]

ARs seem to have dropped in price, while AKs have gone higher. I can build a pretty decent AR for less than $650, but even a WASR goes for over $500 now.

[scaevola]

It's spotty. I haven't seen .22 on the shelf in weeks but today Sportsman's Warehouse had some and I picked up a thousand. Came to about 5.5¢ / round after tax.

Of course, that's all they'dsell me.

Hopefully it'll soon be come along more often.

[Safeshot]

I can "wait or do without". Not interested in $.10 per round .22 rimfire ammo.

[EMC45]

I'd rather shoot my centerfire wheelguns and rifles for a whole lot less than .22LR. My daughter told me she wants to shoot the "foldup" (KelTec Sub 2K) the other day. Can shoot that a whole lot cheaper than the .22s

[youngmman]

I would think as time goes by the availability and cost of 22lr and WMR's would improve. The "Shortage" seemed to correlate with the new "lead Law" in CA. It includes 22lr. By 7-15-19 no lead bullets can be used for hunting in CA.

[9.3X62AL]

Just got some Blazer which my 10/22 likes. 2.29 per box of 50 which I thought was reasonable.

Blazer is decent ammo, and $2.29/50 is a very fair price. Whatever retailer sold to you at this price is a real jewel--take good care of him or her.

In the Times Of Plenty--prior to the ObamaNation's Second Dynasty--I was coughing up between $6-$7/100 for CCI Mini-Mags, which I consider to be very good general purpose ammunition. I don't go through a whole lot of rimfire ammo, so I didn't mind paying a premium for good, consistent product that ran in everything, even a couple of my Balk-O-Matics. I have since found that Blazer ammo runs just as well and with similar accuracy. If you can get this level of quality for 4.6 cents per shot, I wouldn't hesitate to stock up.

[EMC45]

CCI Blazer is good RF ammo. When it hit $18.99 a brick local I stopped buying it. Now it's $45 a brick same place, when they can get it.

[500MAG]

When they get back to $7-8 per 500-round brick, I'll think about it.
Amen to that. As soon as people stop paying those crazy prices it will come back to normal.

[GhostHawk]

Ammo arrived today, box in good condition, ammo looks good.

If you think .22lr is going to go back to under 5 cents each, well your entitled to your opinion.

My opinion was I wanted to replace rounds fired and stock up a bit more while I could, and I didn't pay 90$ a brick to do it.
Even when the big company's do finish those huge government orders for ammo, I don't see demand dropping anytime soon.

7 years ago Corn was at 2$ a bushel, then it went to 8$, a couple of bumper crops and no real bad weather in central USA has the price down to 3 and change. But I doubt we'll ever see corn back to 2$. Simply more demand than there is supply, long term.

Anyway no one is making you do anything, or suggesting that you do anything you don't want to. So I don't see why so many of you get so bent out of shape over it. You'd think I was doing something unmentionable in your breakfast cereal!

People are NOT going to stop shooting, in fact more are shooting than ever before. The number of people is not going down, it is going up, fast. 22 ammo makers have been going full bore for how many years now? They have learned that the people will pay the high prices, so why should they ever lower them?

Call me a simple farm boy, but I call it the way I see it.

[Finster101]

Blazer is decent ammo, and $2.29/50 is a very fair price. Whatever retailer sold to you at this price is a real jewel--take good care of him or her.

In the Times Of Plenty--prior to the ObamaNation's Second Dynasty--I was coughing up between $6-$7/100 for CCI Mini-Mags, which I consider to be very good general purpose ammunition. I don't go through a whole lot of rimfire ammo, so I didn't mind paying a premium for good, consistent product that ran in everything, even a couple of my Balk-O-Matics. I have since found that Blazer ammo runs just as well and with similar accuracy. If you can get this level of quality for 4.6 cents per shot, I wouldn't hesitate to stock up.


It was our local Bass Pro Shop. They had a four box limit per person, luckily the wife was with me so I scored 8 boxes. The shelves were pretty well stocked with other calibers of ammo, all the .22 though was behind the counter. They also had plenty of primers in all varieties but next to no powder.

[shooterg]

Casting/reloading/swaging is what most do here. And reloads for you and the family is one thing. But kids shooting is our future, and who wants the liability of them shooting our reloads ? Most every new shooter started with a .22 rimfire - any event we've hosted for kids involves rimfire, whether it's a family bullseye match, intro to silhouette/etc. I hate that there are people not taking their kids to the Range 'cause they got no steenkin' .22.
I try to keep a few of the old ($0.99) boxes in the ride, and if I see a kid with an adult, I'll give him one and tell him, "it's yours, don't let the old man shoot it !".
And yeah, I'll pay 10 cents to replace it, although I like the 6 cent replacements I finally got from CMP better !
5 bucks for a kid to shoot? Priceless !

My guess is $25-$27 with tax is the new normal brick price for shoot-em-up stuff. The match varieties really haven't gone up that much.

[dragon813gt]

Until the shelves are fully stocked everywhere there is no new normal. The biggest factor is going to be what the dollar is worth. This has a lot to do w/ higher prices for everything. It's all speculation at this point.

[hickstick_10]

I'd rather shoot my centerfire wheelguns and rifles for a whole lot less than .22LR. My daughter told me she wants to shoot the "foldup" (KelTec Sub 2K) the other day. Can shoot that a whole lot cheaper than the .22s

^THIS^^^^^

I sold my 22 lever rifle a few years ago and bought a 357 marlin for this very reason, never regretted it and I don't miss the 22.

A few thousand hot loaded 357 brass will fill a a burlap rice sack and will last a long time, and range scrap 38 special brass are free for the taking for plinking. I'l probably never own a 22 LR again.

[Geraldo]

When they get back to $7-8 per 500-round brick, I'll think about it.

Just wondering if you're waiting for gas to go back to $1.15 a gallon before you buy any. :|

[Ickisrulz]

I'd rather shoot my centerfire wheelguns and rifles for a whole lot less than .22LR. My daughter told me she wants to shoot the "foldup" (KelTec Sub 2K) the other day. Can shoot that a whole lot cheaper than the .22s

The nice thing about the 22s is they don't require the labor the center fire stuff does. How much time do you have in a box of 100 rounds? I figure I probably have close to 2 hours in casting, lubing and reloading. If you only shoot a couple hundred rounds a week, that time isn't too bad. But I was accustomed to shooting around 300 rounds of 22 in addition to at least 100 rounds of center fire each week. I can't replace all my rimfire shooting with center fire because of time constraints (and I'm retired).

[EMC45]

I understand the time question. I consider the time I spend casting/reloading as almost therapeutic. I clear my head and do what I have to do. I still value my handloads well above the cost of .22LR ammo.

[9.3X62AL]

I understand the time question. I consider the time I spend casting/reloading as almost therapeutic. I clear my head and do what I have to do. I still value my handloads well above the cost of .22LR ammo.

There ya go.

It still seems preposterous to me that the manufacturers can't keep up with demand. My "gut" feeling has always been that some or most of this condition is contrived and artificial. One realization I came to is that our hobby is only shallowly supplied by the makers that produce ammo or components to service it. Inventory in depth......hardly. We are poorly served by that lot.

[dragon813gt]

One realization I came to is that our hobby is only shallowly supplied by the makers that produce ammo or components to service it. Inventory in depth......hardly. We are poorly served by that lot.

Two things to point out. Do you really think that the manufacturers are not producing as much as they can? Their goal is to make money. Keeping production down means less money for them. You also need to look at wholesale costs because that is where the manufacturers make their money. Wholesale cost has gone up by only minimally. The price increase begins at the distributor level and goes on from there.

As far is inventory goes. Thank our government for their inventory taxes. No companies what product on the shelves come the end of the fiscal year. All that product does is cost them money if it sits there long term. Could the manufacturers have stockpiled over the years, sure could have. But I'm sure the accountants got involved and figured out what they would have to sell it for to make a profit if it say on the shelf for "x" number of months.

[4rdwhln]

I have just spent 50.00 on 500 Armscor 22 shells... price seems steep however I have 8 .22 caliber guns....seems a waste to just let them sit..every now and then its good to shoot them.. super good news is they work in a rifle I have that nothing seems to feed in. I will shoot them sparingly till I can get some more.

[Wally]

There ya go.

It still seems preposterous to me that the manufacturers can't keep up with demand. My "gut" feeling has always been that some or most of this condition is contrived and artificial. One realization I came to is that our hobby is only shallowly supplied by the makers that produce ammo or components to service it. Inventory in depth......hardly. We are poorly served by that lot.

First we had two long periods of primer shortages....then .22 RF and now with powder. I haven't seen a good selection of powders on Powder Valleys website in over two years.....no Sir, something is rotten in Denmark and all the excuses from the industry sound more and more to me like the stuff that bulls make a lot of.

[Garyshome]

Hey if you're happy with the price I am too! I just picked up some in a deal, if all goes as planned it will cost $0.00 for the ammo.

[wrench man]

CCI SV has been available locally for $3.49 for 50, I told them to keep it, Cabela's had the same for $4.99, I shook my head as I walked away, within the last two weeks I've purchased 500 count bricks of Federal 510 and AE5022 for less than $20, I consider that reasonable.

[9.3X62AL]

Dragon--

Not meaning to be argumentive here, but I'm certain that the makers are producing as much as they can. Problem is, "as much as they can" isn't nearly enough. Demand has grown--GREATLY. And the makers choose to ignore that growth, and continue their Rip Van Winkle routine--living today as if times haven't changed in 20 years.

[GhostHawk]

Setting up a "New" manufacturing line has to be a terrific pain in the posterior. EPA studies to be done, demand projections, plus lining up the raw materials has to all be a huge headache.

"New" from scratch production lines to make .22lr ammo and tap into the available market is probably a 5-7 year plan and that is if nothing goes wrong!

We have no idea if it is even possible, could a company get enough brass to make more than what they are making now? Lead? Powder?

We don't work in the industry, we have no idea what the bottlenecks are.

Company's are in the business for the purpose of making money. Right now producing .22lr is a lot like printing money. You don't think they would if they could? You assume this is all a conspiracy to inconvenience you?

Paranoid much?

I don't think the makers are ignoring that growth, stuff takes time.
Building anything new from scratch even if it is producing a product that is totally known, still takes time.
Just getting through all the bloody inspections takes TIME.

[9.3X62AL]

Not paranoid, and I have invested a good amount of money in firearms with something of an understanding that sufficient ammunition and/or components would be available to enable training and recreation with those arms. That is not reasonably possible currently for many people, and I object to it as a hobbyist and enthusiast. This is the United States of America, not some third-world pest hole rife with graft and corruption or lacking a manufacturing base. After six years of shortage/outage/flippers/strippers/gougers and their associated irritations, I do not think it is unreasonable to expect more from the makers of the outdoors products I enjoy than what I have seen for over a half-decade. The duration of these conditions speaks far more loudly of poor planning, indolence, arrogance, and sloth.

[Heavy lead]

Not paranoid, and I have invested a good amount of money in firearms with something of an understanding that sufficient ammunition and/or components would be available to enable training and recreation with those arms. That is not reasonably possible currently for many people, and I object to it as a hobbyist and enthusiast. This is the United States of America, not some third-world pest hole rife with graft and corruption or lacking a manufacturing base. After six years of shortage/outage/flippers/strippers/gougers and their associated irritations, I do not think it is unreasonable to expect more from the makers of the outdoors products I enjoy than what I have seen for over a half-decade. The duration of these conditions speaks far more loudly of poor planning, indolence, arrogance, and sloth.
Amen,
The very best oratory on this I've heard on this yet, enough with the excuses.

[dtknowles]

Not paranoid, and I have invested a good amount of money in firearms with something of an understanding that sufficient ammunition and/or components would be available to enable training and recreation with those arms. That is not reasonably possible currently for many people, and I object to it as a hobbyist and enthusiast........

Where did you get that understanding that ammo and components would be available? Did you get that in writing? Makers have often stopped production of some ammo (as the guys that want .32 RF what that costs when they can find it) and others they only produce once a year or so.

Most U.S. firearms makers do not make ammo just firearms. I think Remington is the only Ammo maker who also make firearms. Some like S&W and Weatherby have had others make ammo for them. How much money would you sink into more production capacity with the current political situation. If you think it is a good bet then go raise the money and build a ammo factory.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Amen,
The very best oratory on this I've heard on this yet, enough with the excuses.

Just more of the sad entitlement mentality. I bought a gun someone needs to make sure I can get cheap ammo for it. Just a bunch of whining. If the government was the problem then it would be smart to complain to you elected representatives and explaining to businessmen that you think they are missing an opportunity all make sense but whining about it here.......

If you want to start a grass roots campaign to reach out to the manufacturers, I will join a petition or letter writing campaign. I you want the Feds to allow more imports from Russia, I am not going there.

Tim

[roysha]

Just more of the sad entitlement mentality. I bought a gun someone needs to make sure I can get cheap ammo for it. Just a bunch of whining. If the government was the problem then it would be smart to complain to you elected representatives and explaining to businessmen that you think they are missing an opportunity all make sense but whining about it here.......

If you want to start a grass roots campaign to reach out to the manufacturers, I will join a petition or letter writing campaign. I you want the Feds to allow more imports from Russia, I am not going there.

Tim

Are you serious?? If so what planet do you live on? When was the last time ANY so called "representative" paid any attention to anything other than getting more power for themselves?

I'm inclined to believe that the main trend of thought here is not so much cheap ammo, as to have it readily available at a reasonable cost. If you're good with $100 a carton 22LR great. Unfortunately there are those among us who cannot afford those prices.

As far as Russia, what in the **** has that got to do with anything?

[9.3X62AL]

Perhaps I've hit a few nerves......those of flippers/gougers, or makers/employees. If so, GOOD. Something needs to stir that lot out of its sloth and torpor.

[dtknowles]

Perhaps I've hit a few nerves......those of flippers/gougers, or makers/employees. If so, GOOD. Something needs to stir that lot out of its sloth and torpor.

I am none of the above, not a flipper, gouger, maker or employee, I have not sold any quantity one round or a 100 of .22 or any other ammo. I have sold some brass.

I paid $60 for 500 rounds of Match .22 LR a few weeks ago not too unhappy with that price because I can't make better ammo for less. I don't blame the manufacturers. I do blame the politicians because they have created the climate makes it a bad business decision to add capacity and I think that is why we see so much imported ammo and have shortages. You are not going to influence anyone with your whining. My senator who is up for reelection this fall is likely to lose because she is on the wrong side on too many issues and her previous popularity is gone, I have explained it to her staff.

If I was going to build a new .22 LR production line the only reason I would do it in the U.S.A. is to be patriotic, not really a good basis for a business decision.

Tim

[Beagle333]

My WalMart had a pile of CCI "Target-plinking" LR's in the 100 pack for $7.34 this morning. I passed on em though. I don't think anybody else was interested either.

[dtknowles]

Are you serious?? If so what planet do you live on? When was the last time ANY so called "representative" paid any attention to anything other than getting more power for themselves?

I'm inclined to believe that the main trend of thought here is not so much cheap ammo, as to have it readily available at a reasonable cost. If you're good with $100 a carton 22LR great. Unfortunately there are those among us who cannot afford those prices.

As far as Russia, what in the **** has that got to do with anything?


Yes, I am serious, they want more power but they have very little if they can't get reelected. If they don't know what you care about then they don't know why you voted for someone else. In the past a lot of people had been shooting Russian made ammo including .22 LR but with the way Russia is behaving I doubt we will be seeing much Russian ammo and that would be alright with me. I have never even seen .22 ammo offered for $100 a brick except Eley Match. I have seen it at $60 a brick for what was once cheap ammo and it does not move fast at that price.

If you think the price is too high don't pay it. Manufacturers will not increase capacity until the business and political climate assures them that the investment will be paid back with a profit in less than a few years. If the new capacity drives the price back down to where it was they might never make back their investment. I think the people in the Ammo business know the business better than you.

Since many here refuse to pay 10 cents a round the manufacturers don't see any reason to make more than they currently can.

Tim

[Wally]

Not paranoid, and I have invested a good amount of money in firearms with something of an understanding that sufficient ammunition and/or components would be available to enable training and recreation with those arms. That is not reasonably possible currently for many people, and I object to it as a hobbyist and enthusiast. This is the United States of America, not some third-world pest hole rife with graft and corruption or lacking a manufacturing base. After six years of shortage/outage/flippers/strippers/gougers and their associated irritations, I do not think it is unreasonable to expect more from the makers of the outdoors products I enjoy than what I have seen for over a half-decade. The duration of these conditions speaks far more loudly of poor planning, indolence, arrogance, and sloth.


Very eloquently said...I feel the same way and I guess that we have a lot of company.

[marvelshooter]

Local Dick's had American Eagle .22's in their flyer for $2.49 per box of 40 which is a smidge over 6 cents a piece AND still had some left when I got there.

[9.3X62AL]

Wally, I suspect that I speak for a fair number of folks on this site and elsewhere. Some of the less understanding among us think I'm "whining", which took great courage to say from behind a computer firewall. Trolls are like that, though, and I suspect some of it is hangover from my time at the P&R section where I gored a few sacred cows and got evicted for my trouble. I don't care, I have a right to my views and some folks just don't like their truth in Costco-sized increments.

CCI's bulk/Blazer 22 LR ammo is pretty decent stuff. At $7 and change per hundred, I might have snagged a couple hundred. Hell, just SEEING the stuff on a shelf is like a 70s revival.

[dragon813gt]

So how long does it take to build a new production line and get it going? How much does it cost to build the new line? How much does it cost to staff this new line. How much does it cost to add on to the current facility to house the new line? How long does it take to build this addition to the facility? How much does it cost for maintenance to keep the line producing? There are a lot more questions that none of us know the answer to.

It's really apparent that most of you don't run a business. Let alone one the scale of the ammo manufacturers. I'm positive that their accountants have done all the math. I'm also positive that the companies have forecasted what the future holds. If they see this as a short term, which I would say is five years or so, then why would they make all these capital investments to only have demand wane in the future? Do I think demand is up and that it will continue to rise, absolutely. But because our government is so screwed up it wouldn't take much to shut down all production. It's closer now then it has ever been because of their over reaching authority. So why would they invest money if they aren't sure they are going to be able to operate in the future? Makes sense to run tilt now and make as much money as you can w/ current production. None of us know all the things that go on in this business. And like everything, I don't ever expect to be able to buy it whenever I want it. Ever shoot an oddball cartridge? Pretend 22lr is that until supply catches up. And when it does, buy as much as you can afford.

[9.3X62AL]

Dragon, get off my frame. MOST of my centerfire reloading involves obscure, hard-to-find componentry that I need to make. You're preaching to the choir. I don't give a rat's behind WHY 22 LR--the most common ammunition on the face of the earth--is so scarce. I just know that it is, that the scarcity is ridiculous, and that there is no excuse for it aside from poor planning and torpid execution. Maybe the prioritization of government ammo contracts needs to be eliminated, if the .gov is going to be such horse's derrieres about the making of that ammunition. No law on earth says the government shouldn't be part of this scarcity situation that they helped create. I don't like the idea that our soldiers and law officers are running short on ammo, but they need to share alike in the outcomes of their policy nonsense. My carry ammo in the 45 ACP is 3 years old, because I have been unable for that length of time to find any of the approved ammo to replace it with. I just this week was able to find the proper 9mm ammo to run in my other carry pistol--I last saw any of that ammo in December 2010. That is ridiculous, and there is no need for me to have run a business (or not) to know that.

[Mooseman]

The Problem we face is a basic supply vs. demand scenario that is driving the market prices up.
CCI can only produce 2000 Bricks a day running full bore...Thats 1 box for 20,000 rifles daily.
Now guess how many Million .22 rifles there are in the US. Federal, Remington, Winchester and a few importers added in to the mix and what we face is about a 3 year period to even catch up on orders.
Now that All Russian ammo and gun imports have been stopped for political reasons that portion is gone.
I shoot .22 Benchrest and that Eley ammo is extremely high priced at 15 to 20 a box but thats the price you pay for 1 ragged hole in the X at 50 yards. Do I like it ? No , but I suck it up and either pay the price or I dont shoot.

There are people Hoarding ammo because we see more and more gun control , lead regulations , and import bans in the future so just gripe all you want to to your Politicians , but until the Political Climate changes as well as the greed that prevails in America it will be a long time before we ever get back to "Normal"...whatever that is !

[dragon813gt]

I just know that it is, that the scarcity is ridiculous, and that there is no excuse for it aside from poor planning and torpid execution.

This is just ridiculous. Demand has just outstripped supply. Pretty sure I mentioned inventory taxes in this thread. Which makes it financially burdensome for a company to plan ahead and fill their warehouses for ample stock. Why people have a hard time understanding supply and demand and simple business practices is beyond me. They can't just make more ammo out of thin air. I'm assuming the cost to bring a new line online is in the tens of millions. So what would be the break even point for the new line? Would it come in a week/month/year? I'm sure people w/ large bankrolls have already looked into starting up their own ammo companies. Either they have started this process or they realized how much of a task of it is.

As far as government contracts. The civilian market is small potatoes. Why would a company prioritize that over guaranteed money from the government? Makes no sense as a business to do so. All I hear is people complaining because they can't get what they want when they want it. And I'm probably more effected by the 22 shortage then most. I shoot up at least a brick a week. But you don't see me coming up w/ conspiracy theories or blaming the manufacturers.

[Wally]

Always amazes me how so many empathize with the manufacturers.... They must like this as they can immediately sell all they make at a tidy profit and many of their customers have to do without due to these prolonged shortages. As there are few manufactures to products ammunition & components...it is an OPEC like scenario...seems as though they all just like it the way that it is. No reason to add production capacity just as long as your competitor does the same. I think most of us agree that they can easily add production capacity and they'd have little problem securing financing at very low interest rates, due to this wonderful Obama economy.

[dtknowles]

Always amazes me how so many empathize with the manufacturers.... They must like this as they can immediately sell all they make at a tidy profit and many of their customers have to do without due to these prolonged shortages. As there are few manufactures to products ammunition & components...it is an OPEC like scenario...seems as though they all just like it the way that it is. No reason to add production capacity just as long as your competitor does the same. I think most of us agree that they can easily add production capacity and they'd have little problem securing financing at very low interest rates, due to this wonderful Obama economy.

I disagree that we are in an OPEC like scenario, multiple independent manufactures both domestic and foreign.

I also disagree that they can easily add manufacturing capacity, interest rates are only one small factor and even if it would be easy (which it is not) does not make it smart business.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Wally, I suspect that I speak for a fair number of folks on this site and elsewhere. Some of the less understanding among us think I'm "whining", which took great courage to say from behind a computer firewall. Trolls are like that, though, and I suspect some of it is hangover from my time at the P&R section where I gored a few sacred cows and got evicted for my trouble. I don't care, I have a right to my views and some folks just don't like their truth in Costco-sized increments.

CCI's bulk/Blazer 22 LR ammo is pretty decent stuff. At $7 and change per hundred, I might have snagged a couple hundred. Hell, just SEEING the stuff on a shelf is like a 70s revival.

I said you are whining and I am not behind a firewall. Not hiding, PM me if you want my phone number. If you are doing more than whining I can't tell as you have not said what you are doing to fix the situation you dislike. The OP pointed out a source for some ammo, did you try to buy some then?

Tim

[dtknowles]

................My carry ammo in the 45 ACP is 3 years old, because I have been unable for that length of time to find any of the approved ammo to replace it with. I just this week was able to find the proper 9mm ammo to run in my other carry pistol--I last saw any of that ammo in December 2010. That is ridiculous, and there is no need for me to have run a business (or not) to know that.

Did I miss the thread here where you asked the forum if anyone knew where you could find the 45 ammo you have a hard time finding. The members here are very resourceful and helpful. You should at least give us a chance, can you post a list of the approved ammo?

Tim

[9.3X62AL]

It's NOT like OPEC? REALLY? And the situation ISN'T a near-monopoly/cartel in its present state? I focus the blame on the makers, while the maker fan-boys focus the fault on the government. Both entities are to blame.

[Finster101]

Well this got ugly fast. I'll never purchase anything from the appropriately names Dick's after they were so quick to pull black rifles off their shelf. As to the shortage and high prices, I don't know for sure what is to blame. I think there are several factors. I know what I am willing to pay and if I can't find it for that I will simply ration what I have or choose other guns to take to the range. I suppose if I were completely out of .22 my price break would climb though.

[lefty o]

just a quick and dirty synopsis of what it would take to add another line making 22lr in a factory. assuming you already had a building with space to put it all (your looking at approx 100 square yards to house it all). you need an extruder to make wire, then another dozen swagers to make bullets, if you want to copper plate bullets, you need another line. then the machinery to make the casings (draws and headers), an annealer, additional primer mix making capacity, then a new loader line. so your looking at over $100 million dollars plus, not counting the building to house it, plus40-50 full time employe's, not counting additional maintenance and ballistics testing. all the while the manufacturer makes less than one half of a cent per cartridge. and we havent even added in the additonal osha/epa/waste handling, insurance etc. thats just the quick and dirty, there really is alot more that goes into making the lowly 22lr cartridge. i think anyone who wants to blame the manufacturers is welcome and free to start their own company making rimfire ammunition as they want us to think its so cheap and easy that they would immediately make back their investment.

[M-Tecs]

just a quick and dirty synopsis of what it would take to add another line making 22lr in a factory. assuming you already had a building with space to put it all (your looking at approx 100 square yards to house it all). you need an extruder to make wire, then another dozen swagers to make bullets, if you want to copper plate bullets, you need another line. then the machinery to make the casings (draws and headers), an annealer, additional primer mix making capacity, then a new loader line. so your looking at over $100 million dollars plus, not counting the building to house it, plus40-50 full time employe's, not counting additional maintenance and ballistics testing. all the while the manufacturer makes less than one half of a cent per cartridge. and we havent even added in the additonal osha/epa/waste handling, insurance etc. thats just the quick and dirty, there really is alot more that goes into making the lowly 22lr cartridge. i think anyone who wants to blame the manufacturers is welcome and free to start their own company making rimfire ammunition as they want us to think its so cheap and easy that they would immediately make back their investment.

100% correct. Well stated sir!!!!!

[ghh3rd]

I have been getting various brands of .22's here in the Tampa Bay area for $.0499/round, in 500 bricks ($24.95), or 1,400 round tubs ($69.90) for a few months now. I held out and didn't shoot .22'w for quite a while -- had refused to pay 2X+ for .22's, which would serve to perpetuate the cycle of high prices/gouging.

I enjoyed my Marlin 39a, Ruger Single Six, SR22 and Mark III this weekend :-)

[GhostHawk]

TY Lefty!

[smokeywolf]

When I was a kid my dad would buy 22s by the case; usually more than one at a time. Dad's been gone for 19 years. I didn't have need to source 22s until about 5 years ago.
I don't remember ever hearing of, seeing or experiencing a shortage like we've experienced during the last 2 years. The severity and duration suggest that the cause is likely not just demand, but probably other factors as well.

For those who favor a conspiracy (that's often me), if an entity were going to manufacture a shortage, they would make sure that the cause was indeterminate and therefore not from one source. If your goal is to limit the availability of a commodity, manipulating only one of the factors that influences its availability would allow the problem to be too easily recognized and solved.

smokeywolf

[M-Tecs]

Winchester is spending 100 mil. and Remington is spending 32 mil.

http://www.guns.com/2013/05/10/light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-remington-expands-ammo-plant-foreign-ammo-imports-double/

http://www.nrablog.com/post/2013/05/11/Remington-plans-to-increase-ammo-output-build-plant-in-Arkansas.aspx

http://djournal.com/news/olinwinchester-dedicates-centerfire-plant-in-oxford/

http://www.guns.com/2013/08/28/ammo-update-ruag-expanding-increasing-manufacturing-capabilities/

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5845524/the-ammunition-shortage-is-a-real-thing-heres-why-it-happened

[loaded303]

I don't get so lucky picking up 38/357 brass. Plenty of 9/40/45. Best wishes. I shoot hard cast SWC reloads pretty cheap. I only load for my family.

[Heavy lead]

Just more of the sad entitlement mentality. I bought a gun someone needs to make sure I can get cheap ammo for it. Just a bunch of whining. If the government was the problem then it would be smart to complain to you elected representatives and explaining to businessmen that you think they are missing an opportunity all make sense but whining about it here.......

If you want to start a grass roots campaign to reach out to the manufacturers, I will join a petition or letter writing campaign. I you want the Feds to allow more imports from Russia, I am not going there.

Tim

I do believe this might be the first time I've ever been described as having an entitlement mentality, quite interesting at the least. I did get a chuckle out of it though, thanks for that.

[dtknowles]

I do believe this might be the first time I've ever been described as having an entitlement mentality, quite interesting at the least. I did get a chuckle out of it though, thanks for that.

Maybe this part of the post you thought so highly of "I have invested a good amount of money in firearms with something of an understanding that sufficient ammunition and/or components would be available to enable training and recreation with those arms." made a different impression on you than it did me.

The fault could be mine but to me this is the thought of someone one who feels entitled to something that was not promised. History has shown that just because someone makes a gun does not mean that they promise to assure that ammo for it will be available or affordable. Many people understood this but some learned in the shortage from the Clinton years others are learning now. Some of us learned from the stories about shortages during WWII. Sometimes I read stories in threads here about people (preper types) developing techniques so they can have or make ammo when the normal sources have dried up.

Some people expect others to make what they want available for them to purchase and some even expect that it should be reasonably priced. Others are thankful when it is available and even more thankful when it is cheap but are prepared for when it might not be available at any price.

Taught myself to make pretty good beer and passable wine and know where to source the ingredients. I still have most of my tools of the trade. I don't make it myself now, it was just a learning exercise so that I could still enjoy those beverages when or if they might be hard to get.

I guess this is a combination of an explanation and an apology. Saying someone has an entitlement mentality might be considered an insult. I am sorry I did not mean to be insulting.

I truly am entitled (it says so in my contract) to a pension I earned working for a company for 30 years, I could have accepted a buyout or started early retirement a year ago. If the company goes bankrupt I might get 50 cents on the dollar from the federal pension benefits guarantee program or less if the government can't afford even that. Sometimes even being entitled will only get you a chance to whine about how you have been cheated. Make your own decision and provide for yourself, don't feel like someone or some company or some government owes you something, especially when they actually don't.

Tim

[9.3X62AL]

DT--

"Entitlement mentality" is a gross over-statement of what I meant to express. My meaning was more along the line of "reasonable expectation" of having consumables to utilize in the somewhat costly hardware items I own and enjoy.

I do not reject anyone's contention that starting up a brand-new ammp production line of facility is a very risky venture. I get that, and I get that a number of financial and political disincentives form the background in which this mess has begun and continued. One of my largest annoyances occurred about a year ago when Steve Hornady basically placed the blame for the ammo shortage on the clamoring consumers. To a degree, he is correct--but the feeding frenzy is a shared responsibility--a "Perfect Storm", really--consisting of unprecedented demand with a background of true growth in the firearms hobbies--stagnant, unresponsive, unaware ammo and component makers using old-line data to predict inventory details, and a political situation that scares h--l out of any sector of the firearms trades and hobby fields. For Mr. Hornady to lay the blame at the feet of his loyal customers was arrogant and ignorant. It angered me. That sort of mindset would expect table manners from starving Eritreans.

[Surculus]

I do not reject anyone's contention that starting up a brand-new ammp production line of facility is a very risky venture.

Dunno how risky it is in the usual sense of the word. The real problem is that it's horrifically expensive, the competition is fierce and consequently the margins are low. But once the capital investment is made, even if the market is saturated at the moment, the machinery can easily be shuttered for awhile and then rapidly brought online when demand creeps up again. The thing is, there's much more profitable areas in which to invest your money if you're sitting on the pile of it required to start up a rimfire ammo production line.

The machines necessary to do this properly are largely custom made: other than the punch press for the case blanks, everything is pretty much a one- [or half-dozen] off. Eley has been said to have 5 production lines, which they probably bought 5 of each of the necessary machines the last time they updated the line a generation ago: it just wouldn't have made fiscal sense to do it onesy-twosy, and they probably went out on a financial limb & leveraged everything they could in order to set up 5 lines instead of just 4. Probably would have done 6 if they could have, but the $ just wasn't available, at a guess...

The super-high costs of setting up another production line is why you have current producers like CCI running 2 or 3 shifts rather than just setting up another line. Rimfire has precisely zero prospect of a nice, fat govt. order of bazillions of rounds over an x-year period (unlike centerfire), so who among current producers is going to go out on that financial limb to add capacity that will likely only need to be shuttered once the pipeline is refilled?

The fact remains that once the current demand subsides long enough for stocks of ammo to sit on the shelf for longer than the next shipment to arrive, [Walmart is getting resupply about what, every two months? Monthly at best?] the drought will subside because the scalpers' hold on the market will be broken and prices will gradually subside to the real "new norm" [trust me, .10/rd for bulk/"promo" is NOT it!] A little over a decade ago that was ~$10/brk for promo .22lr [Blazer, Am. Eagle, Win Wildcat, virtually all Remmie, etc.] We'll not likely see those prices again in our lifetimes: the demand for the necessary metals [copper, zinc, lead] to industrialize the burgeoning 3rd world economies [particularly rural China & India] is too high. The costs of those raw materials [well, not the single greatest component by wt. ie, lead] almost doubled for awhile there back before the worldwide recession, but of course have come down a bit since then. Still, a new norm of $20/brk for promo .22 is achievable and rational based upon the past, if we can just get the production pipeline to refill so that there is no perception of unmet demand for the scalpers to feed off of and tie up inventory to keep the prices high.

But all of that is easy for me to say, since I bought as much 22lr as I could afford when I first saw prices start rising rapidly from the $100/case to $130-$150/case level I bought a bunch of my stockpile at almost a decade ago now. No, I'm not selling... :razz:

[M-Tecs]

For Mr. Hornady to lay the blame at the feet of his loyal customers was arrogant and ignorant. It angered me. That sort of mindset would expect table manners from starving Eritreans.

After a little research is am not finding anything arrogant and ignorant. Would you be so kind as to post the statement that you find arrogant and ignorant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p2pl3ZsH8s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p2pl3ZsH8s)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYMiC0GeLq4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYMiC0GeLq4)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/05/04/ammo.shortage/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/05/04/ammo.shortage/index.html)

A message from Steve Hornady, president of Hornady Ammunition, on the company'sWeb site reads:
"Here at Hornady Manufacturing we are breaking our own production records in an attempt to keep up with customer demand. We have added extra shifts, machinery and we are also in the process of expanding our manufacturing plant."
WinchesterAmmunition posted a similar statement:
"Winchester Ammunition, like other ammunition manufacturers, has seen the demand for our products increase significantly since last fall. To meet that increased demand, our operations are running 24 hours a day, 7 days a week."

[9.3X62AL]

M-Tec, do your own damn research. He made it in March 2013. This is a bulletin board, not a doctoral dissertation.

Surculus, what you say makes sense. Thank you.

[mold maker]

What else would you expect the politically correct PR depts to put out, under the current circumstances?

[M-Tecs]

M-Tec, do your own damn research. He made it in March 2013. This is a bulletin board, not a doctoral dissertation.

Surculus, what you say makes sense. Thank you.

Nice response to a legitimate request. [smilie=s:

If Steve Hornady is truly making claims that are arrogant and ignorant I will stop using his products. You are the one making the claim so you should be able to substantiate it. :popcorn:

Additional research is not supporting your claims.

http://www.hornady.com/support/availability (http://www.hornady.com/support/availability)

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/07/hornady-suspends-production-of-150-ammo-types-and-150-bullet-types-for-balance-of-2013/ (http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/07/hornady-suspends-production-of-150-ammo-types-and-150-bullet-types-for-balance-of-2013/)

http://www.guns.com/2013/02/15/hornady-addresses-ammo-shortage/ (http://www.guns.com/2013/02/15/hornady-addresses-ammo-shortage/)

So who is out of line. You or Steve?

[9.3X62AL]

Additional research is not supporting your claims.

If the diligence of your "research" is akin to the level of your trolling upon my posts in this thread, I wouldn't take any of it to the bank. Your failure to find the material I read online does not equate to lack of support--only to a shallowness of effort. This is your little Inquisition, enjoy it if it gives you pleasure.

[roysha]

If the diligence of your "research" is akin to the level of your trolling upon my posts in this thread, I wouldn't take any of it to the bank. Your failure to find the material I read online does not equate to lack of support--only to a shallowness of effort. This is your little Inquisition, enjoy it if it gives you pleasure.

Typical response from someone who cannot substantiate their statement. If it is too much trouble to post a link to the offending Hornady statement then I doubt it exists.

[9.3X62AL]

None of you hateful contributors has done me any favors in this thread, this is just more of the vitriol your ilk liked to spew in P&R about my career field. None of you are owed a damn thing by me. Mr. Hornady said it in March 2013, I read it online. Challenge all you want.

[roysha]

"None of you hateful contributors has done me any favors in this thread, this is just more of the vitriol your ilk liked to spew in P&R about my career field."

HUH?????:confused::confused::confused:

[dragon813gt]

He was a LEO and if you venture into the pit you will see a lot of cop bashing. I fail to see how that applies to this thread though.

[M-Tecs]

None of you hateful contributors has done me any favors in this thread,

In the past I have enjoyed your posts and respected them greatly. If you check you are on my friends list. Only people that I like and respect are on my friends list. I saddens me to see the direction you are choosing to proceed in.

My original request had nothing to do with you other than you made a statement that (if substantiated)may affect my future support for Hornady products.

Since I cannot substantiate it I requested that you provide a link. Nothing unusual about that.

In the past couple of months I have been called out four times on statements I have made. Each time I politely and respectfully provided substantiating information to all that requested it. (Still working on one)

Somewhat different than
M-Tec, do your own damn research. He made it in March 2013. This is a bulletin board, not a doctoral dissertation.



None of you are owed a damn thing by me. Mr. Hornady said it in March 2013, I read it online. Challenge all you want.

I believe that if someone takes the time to read my posts and the requests addition information I do OWE them that information.

[9.3X62AL]

All right, M-Tecs. Fair enough. I apologize for the rather deep bitterness I feel for this site to which I have belonged in its varying ideations since 1996, and for the sharp expressions this bitterness occasionally leads to.

My best recollection of Mr. Hornady's obnoxious statements' location was that they appeared on the Hornady site itself, or upon a link to or from the Hornady site during the timeframe of March 2013. That such a statement might have been expunged from these sites is a strong possibility given its content, and I always reserve the right to be wrong whenever I contribute to this site or any other. But I would swear under oath to having read this content, and to having been angered by its arrogance and ignorance. I don't hold grudges much, but this one by the company's "face" sunk in and hung on. Why? Because I buy a LOT of Hornady products, and the first thing I did--again on the Hornady site--was send a strongly-worded response to Mr. Hornady's assertions, and in that response I used the same text I did in this thread about how he likely expected table manners from starving Eritreans.

The real issue here is that I don't come on this site to BS other members or to fabricate stories. Some of you in this thread have more than intimated that I am doing so. I am not. I have not. I will not. And further--I am not a very skilled computer operator, and I lack the ability to research the matter or to forensically analyze the present-time absence of these statements on the net. I saw the text and recall it, that is enough for me. The outcome of the matter has been for me to greatly restrict any further purchases from the Hornady company, limiting myself to only the things they make that are unavailable elsewhere. Fact is, none of Hornady's competitors are doing a much better job of serving the hobby field they cater to than Hornady is. There isn't a lot to choose from, though things are slowly improving.