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View Full Version : Thoughts of the 32-40 Winchester (nee Ballard) from The American Rifle



ohland
07-08-2014, 12:41 PM
Fellow bond servants to the Plumbous Calf - All info in this message is based on the way they saw things in 1918. The powders, testing methods, formulations, and tolerances have all changed. Use of this info is at your own risk.

http://books.google.com/books?id=7vBCAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=THE+AMERICAN+RIFLE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Qh68U-XpAYWdyATRv4GADQ&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=THE%20AMERICAN%20RIFLE&f=false

THE AMERICAN RIFLE, MAJ Townsend Whelen, 1918, pgs 258-261


.32-40 CARTRIDGE

This popular cartridge is adapted to a great variety of rifles, almost every manufacturer having made rifles for it at some time. At present the following rifles are being manufactured for it in America:
Winchester repeating rifle, Model 1894; Winchester single-shot rifle; Marlin repeating rifle, Model 1893; Savage repeating rifle, Model 1899; Stevens Ideal single-shot rifle. The cartridge is made up in a large number of different loads by the various ammunition companies. The following table gives the data for these loads:

Load No. 1 being the black powder and low-pressure smokeless load, a lead bullet being used with the black-powder load and a soft-point or full-patched jacketed bullet with the smokeless load.

Load No. 2 is the Winchester high-velocity cartridge loaded with smokeless powder and a soft-point or full-jacketed bullet.

Load No. 3 is the Remington U. M. C. high-power load, using a soft-point or full-jacketed bullet. This last load should only be used in rifles having smokeless steel barrels. Rifles with smokeless steel barrels can be had to order from the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, or can be obtained from regular stock from the Savage and Marlin companies, but are not made by the Stevens Company.



Load No.
1
2
3



Muzzle velocity..
1,427
1,752
2,065
fps


Velocity at 100 yards
1,194
1,460
1,708
fps


Velocity at 200 yards
1,055
1,231
1.403
fps


Velocity at 300 yards
967
1,082
1,177
fps.


Energy at muzzle
747
1,125
1,558
Ft-Lbs.


Energy at 100 yards
523
781
1,072
Ft-Lbs.


Energy at 200 yards
380
561
816
Ft-Lbs.


Energy at 300 yards
330
429
495
Ft-Lbs.


100 yard trajectory, height at 50 yards
2.45
1.70
1.30
inches.


200 yard trajectory, height at 100 yards...
12.22
8.23
5.47
inches.


300 yard trajectory, height at 150 yards
31.92
22.08
15.64
inches.


Penetration, lead bullet, 7/8 -inch pine boards
8.5


boards.


Penetration, soft point bullet, 7/8 -inch boards
8.5
10
10
boards.


Penetration, full patch bullet, 7/8-inch'boards
18
30
38
boards.


Diameter of bullets, all kinds
.319


inch.


Groove diam. all makes
.3205


inch.


Twist of rifling, all makes
1:16


inches.


Powder charge, FG. BP
40


grains.


Standard pressure
17,000 to 19,000
30,000 to 32,000
34.000 to 36,000
P.S.I.



The accuracy of these cartridges differ considerably. Satisfactory results cannot be obtained from factory-loaded, black-powder ammunition unless it is quite freshly loaded, and then only fair results. I have found the low-pressure, smokeless cartridge loaded by the Winchester Company to be very accurate at 200 yards when fired from a Winchester single-shot rifle, groups as small as 3.50 inches being obtained at that range. Groups of about 8 inches can be obtained from the Remington-U. M. C. high-power cartridge in a rifle having a smokeless steel barrel.

This cartridge has a great reputation for accuracy. It has been used for years by Schuetzen riflemen for extremely fine work at 200 yards, but always with bullets seated in the barrel ahead of the shell. It is not a particularly accurate cartridge when the bullets are seated as deeply in the shell as in the factory ammunition. Very good results can be obtained from lead bullets and black powder, loaded fresh, when the bullets are seated with about one-fourth inch more of the bullet projecting from the shell than is the case with the factory cartridge. A very accurate load for use with either black or semi-smokeless powder is as follows:

110169
Ideal bullet No. 321232, cast of 1 part of tin to 32 parts of lead, and sized to .321 inch. Forty-four grains, bulk measure, of King's semi-smokeless F. G. or C. G. powder, or the same amount of F. G. black powder. The bullet seated so that two bands project from the shell. With this load I have obtained 2inch groups at too yards in a Winchester single-shot rifle which had a groove diameter of .3205 inch.
The following loads of smokeless powder can be used in this cartridge, using either the soft-point or full-patched, jacketed bullets:



Kind of powder

Grains
fps
psi



Hercules "sharpshooter"
11
1,450
low


Du Pont smokeless No. 1
17
I ,450
low


Du Pont sporting No. 80
13.2
1,450
low


Du Pont military No. 16
21
1,435
11,300


Du Pont military No. 16
25
1.754
21,880


Du Pont military No. 16
30.5
2,260
39,700 (1)


Du Pont military No. 18
23.5
1,430




Du Pont military No. 18
25.3
1,750




Du Pont military No. 18
29
2,100




Du Pont military No. 21
18
1,500
16,000


Du Pont military No. 21
26.5
2,030
43,000



*1 This powder charge should be weighed, not measured. It will be necessary to compress the charge slightly to seat the bullet.

The Ideal Manufacturing Company can furnish a large variety of alloy bullets for this cartridge.

110168
Among these may be mentioned bullet No. 31949 of 134-grains weight. This bullet has a very sharp point, and when used with a charge of low-pressure powder it will kill squirrels and grouse neatly without spoiling their meat for the table, a thing that cannot be done with any of the regular bullets, as the flat points tear small game rather badly.

110163
Ideal bullet No. 319295 with gas-check may also be used, cast of Ideal bullet metal No. 2, or of 1 part of tin to 10 parts of lead, and sized to .321 inch. With it use 23-grains weight of Du Pont military rifle powder No. 21, giving a velocity of about 1850 feet per second, and very good accuracy. The Schuetzen riflemen who practice fine target shooting at 200 yards exclusively invariably use very heavy single-shot rifles, and load their bullets ahead of the shell into the rifling by means of a bullet seater (a sort of a plunger working inside a dummy shell which seats the bullet approximately central in the rifling). The shells are filled with powder and a cardboard wad placed on top of the powder to prevent the same spilling. The shell is loaded into the chamber after the bullet has been seated, thus making two operations necessary to load the rifle. Much better accuracy can be secured in this manner than with the bullet seated in the shell, provided the bullet is accurately centered in the bore without deforming it. A great many different bullets and charges of powder have been used in this way by Schuetzen riflemen from time to time, the bullet being almost always a little heavier than the standard 165-grain bullet, running from 180 to 200 grains. The best load that I know of at the present time for regular commercial. single-shot barrels that have not been throated is as follows :

110164
Ideal Bullet No. 319289 cast of 1 part of tin to 15 parts of lead, and the two base bands sized so that they are as large as can be seated in the bore with the strong Ideal bullet seater. This size may vary a little with different barrels. For powder charge use the shell full of Du Pont Schuetzen powder, or else about 3 grains of Du Pont No. 1 smokeless powder in the base of the shell, and the balance of the shell filled with King's semi-smokeless powder, F. G. Use a cardboard wad over the powder. It may be necessary to experiment a little with the powder and kind of temper of bullet. The load should give from 4- to 5-inch groups at 200 yards in good barrels.

The best results that can be secured from the regular commercial barrels is with the load designed by Dr. W. G. Hudson, and in order to use this load it is necessary that the rifling be reamed out a little just in front of the chamber to receive the large bullet. The Ideal Manufacturing Company are prepared to ream out barrels in this manner, but after reaming they can only be used for this one particular bullet.

110165
The bullet is the Ideal bullet No. 319273. The two broad base bands of this bullet measure .323 inches, and it can only be seated in barrels that have already been throated, and then requires the strong Ideal bullet seater. The bullet weighs 185 grains, and should be cast of one part of tin to fifteen of lead, and not sized. For powder charge use the shell full of Du Pont Schuetzen powder and use a smokeless primer. This load is good for from 3- to 4-inch groups at 200 yards.

See also the chapter on the Pope Muzzle Loading System.

jonp
07-10-2014, 05:39 PM
Its funny but you read all sorts of stuff about how dangerous duplexing powder is and that you should never do it but here is Maj. Whelen doing exactly that in 1918 with the 319289.

Great Stuff!

marlinman93
07-10-2014, 08:42 PM
Its funny but you read all sorts of stuff about how dangerous duplexing powder is and that you should never do it but here is Maj. Whelen doing exactly that in 1918 with the 319289.

Great Stuff!
With the advent of smokeless powders, many competitive schuetzen shooters used duplex loads, and with great success. Ideal even made their #6 powder measure especially with two chambers to drop duplex loads for this use. Pope made a powder measure also that dropped duplex charges.
Of course duplex loads should always be carefully made up, but so should BP or smokeless. Nothing new about the duplex load though.

Chev. William
07-11-2014, 02:52 AM
Furthe History note: Each Bag of propellant powder for the Navy's 16 inch main Batteries included a 5 lb pad of Black Powder attached by sewing. The !6 inchers used 5 o r6 bags per shot. Definitely a Modern sue of a Duplex Load.
Best regards,
Chev. William

ohland
07-16-2014, 09:57 AM
Old retrobate left for the range this morning with the 32-40. I am not feeling real secure about the PB boolits. They mic'd .320 or so, did not even touch the H&I die. Maybe they will bump up some when fired, sure hope so. Waiting for the 321297 to arrive so I can cast some GC boolits for it.

Oh, my. The undersized PB boolit did NOT disappoint!
110864
As I have tried to explain (and failed) the mystery boolits are from an unknown mold, FAIK a 319xxx. Or it might be a 321xxx mold, but whoever made it used the cherry too long and it is undersize as it drops from the mold (.320 at best!). I further tried (and failed) to explain that I could beagle the mold if I had it, and could probably get an extra 2 thousandths out of it, which would help....

Lyman 17A on the front, some sorta tang sight on the back.

110823
321297 Splendid gas check bullet for .32 Winchester Special and .32-40 single shot rifles. With two moulds hunters can make their own hard or soft point bullets. The proper powder charge is 21.5 grains weight of Hercules Lightning powder. Extremely accurate, and does not wear out the barrel. In .32 Winchester Special tubular magazine rifles muzzle of case should be slightly crimped into front groove to prevent bullet receding into case. This bullet also for use with 8 m/m Lebel French army rifle. Use charge of 22 grains of Lightning. Size to .321. Gives velocity of about 1500 ft. seconds. (GC, FN, 181 - TP is 295)

FedEx dropped the mold off today (16 Jul) and it looks minty. Old retrobate wants to cast tomorrow, and I have some denatured alcohol ready for the degreasing (all hail RCBS Cast Boolit Manual #1! we are NOT worthy!)

And no, I do NOT have the tip mould.

ohland
07-17-2014, 03:18 PM
110928

Old retrobate saw the freshly cast 321297 boolits today and I thought it was Christmas. He grabbed 20 (water quenched so they were cool) and loaded them up. Gol-lee, they actually got sized by the H&I die...

110929

Somewhat better, but the old retrobate thinks he sees a bit of tipping. More powder. Also, after we get a bit better handle on the muzzle (methinks it needs to be crowned properly) he wants to D/T for scope blocks and put some glass on it.

MT Chambers
07-17-2014, 05:55 PM
The old retrobate is not alone, i have been fighting with my .32/40s for a long time, just can't get it to shoot like they did in the old days.

ohland
07-17-2014, 07:45 PM
The old retrobate is not alone, i have been fighting with my .32/40s for a long time, just can't get it to shoot like they did in the old days.

I have delved into the misty past and come up with little. I did find a SR4759 load in Naramore's book on reloading. Not going to duplex.

110947

Some leaden fruits to satiate desire from today's gleaning the lead tree.

280468S, 285448, the newly arrived 321297, and the undersized .320 abomination that came with the 32-40.

ohland
07-18-2014, 08:24 PM
111043

Well, if at first you don't succeed, quit.

This was shot @8PM, and my God, that dinky black thing might work at 25yds, but at 50yds, all I could make out in the tang sight aperture was a dim grey blur....

First shot circled in red, just outside rings at 8:30, next five are about 5:30 - ish. Man-o-man, this was an interesting test of the ability of the human mind to approximate fuzzy signals...

16gr of IMR 4198.
321297 sized to .321
Recoil is slight. #2 weight barrel heats up some.

Old retrobate worked a little on the muzzle, cleaning up the crown. It now shows the start of a loob star with points spaced out related to the rifling. Not as strong as on the 357/44 Bain & Davis, but the first loob ring was just that, roughly a 1/16th inch ring of lube around the muzzle.

ohland
07-28-2014, 03:59 PM
111955
Cast up some slightly softer 321297 and the old retrobate just sized them this morning to .323, loaded them up, and we went to pull trigger...

111956
I pulled my shots more to the left (red), but I am having a very poor time with the beech sight up front and the Marbles tang sight. 25 yards. With better sights and / or glass, I bet this gun would shoot even better.

Got some news today that the 32-40 will probably come to us after all. Bittersweet. Old age really beats some folks down.