.223 projectile for Antelope?

[Utah Shooter]

I am looking to hunt Antelope for my first time. I am thinking of making my bullet from a copper jacket. Has anyone perhaps made a 22 cal. 60-70 gr projectile with a lead tip, similar to a Gameking? I am sure there is but just not finding any info on it. Oh and photos are always a plus.

[clodhopper]

Here in Montana there is no caliber restriction for game.
Many antelope and deer, and even a few elk fall to 22 caliber projectiles.
A soft 55 grain bullet to the lungs (given a broadside shot) is pretty effective on speed goats.
I have used 64 grain winchester power point bullets from a slow twist 788 rem .223 with very good results on several deer, does, and up to 3 year old whitetail bucks.
Flamers, put your lighters down, I do not hunt elk with a 22.

[Sweetpea]

I'm sure it can be done.

In the past, I used 60 grain Partitions in my 22-250, around 3600 FPS.

Worked like a charm for muleys, pronghorn should be no problem.

[runfiverun]

I'm using some corbin jackets to make 65 gr soft point type bullets that don't completely ruin a rock chuck even when bone is hit. [I don't have a point former die so I leave the noses a bit rounded]
and even with soft lead cores from some sheet lead [I got down your direction] I do think they could be used on an antelope quite effectively.
antelope are just barely more than a coyote in bone structure and muscle mass.
no annealing of the copper jaxkets,,,, the velocity of/at impact will help determine your bullets effectiveness and behavior.

[gtgeorge]

I decided to give the AR a go for pigs and deer last year and searched and read everything I could. Seems the 70gr Barnes copper bullet was the answer but was not for me. I lost 2 deer and a hog to them before I ordered some cheap 60gr soft points that were Blems and seem to be Hornady. I dialed them in and was under MOA and shooting squirrels in the head to gain confidence up to almost 100 yards.

Well finally got another chance and at 60 yards went for the head shot on a doe walking away. Aimed between the eyes when it twisted around to handle an itch and squeezed one off. I saw what I thought was her running off from there to the right. I was shocked I missed and went for behind the shoulder at about 80 yards to see her drop and the tall weeds move around a bit and then stopped.

I was so happy I emailed my wife venison was coming home and noticed another deer laying where I shot the first shot right between the eyes. Found out there was a second doe standing almost beside that one by a large pine in tall weeds and was the one that ran 20 yards and was looking back at the other on the ground.

Then I see one at 100 and went for the behind the shoulder shot to see it run 20 yards and drop straight in line with the others. The middle deer I retrieved a perfect mushroom under the skin on the far side and the other 2 passed through.

Confident and happy to have some meat finally I saw another doe the following day running full out and took the shot through a small 2' opening as it crossed and dropped her with a behind the shoulder pass through at 140 yards.

I am now convinced the way to go is with a soft point loaded to be the most accurate you can get it if you really want to use one. All these were under 150# and I do NOT recommend a .223/5.56 if you have something else. I also can not add any experience to it's use on an antelope.

[Utah Shooter]

I'm using some corbin jackets to make 65 gr soft point type bullets that don't completely ruin a rock chuck even when bone is hit. [I don't have a point former die so I leave the noses a bit rounded]
and even with soft lead cores from some sheet lead [I got down your direction] I do think they could be used on an antelope quite effectively.
antelope are just barely more than a coyote in bone structure and muscle mass.
no annealing of the copper jaxkets,,,, the velocity of/at impact will help determine your bullets effectiveness and behavior.
So would you also say that a 52gr HP would work as well?

[Utah Shooter]

I decided to give the AR a go for pigs and deer last year and searched and read everything I could. Seems the 70gr Barnes copper bullet was the answer but was not for me. I lost 2 deer and a hog to them before I ordered some cheap 60gr soft points that were Blems and seem to be Hornady. I dialed them in and was under MOA and shooting squirrels in the head to gain confidence up to almost 100 yards.

Well finally got another chance and at 60 yards went for the head shot on a doe walking away. Aimed between the eyes when it twisted around to handle an itch and squeezed one off. I saw what I thought was her running off from there to the right. I was shocked I missed and went for behind the shoulder at about 80 yards to see her drop and the tall weeds move around a bit and then stopped.

I was so happy I emailed my wife venison was coming home and noticed another deer laying where I shot the first shot right between the eyes. Found out there was a second doe standing almost beside that one by a large pine in tall weeds and was the one that ran 20 yards and was looking back at the other on the ground.

Then I see one at 100 and went for the behind the shoulder shot to see it run 20 yards and drop straight in line with the others. The middle deer I retrieved a perfect mushroom under the skin on the far side and the other 2 passed through.

Confident and happy to have some meat finally I saw another doe the following day running full out and took the shot through a small 2' opening as it crossed and dropped her with a behind the shoulder pass through at 140 yards.

I am now convinced the way to go is with a soft point loaded to be the most accurate you can get it if you really want to use one. All these were under 150# and I do NOT recommend a .223/5.56 if you have something else. I also can not add any experience to it's use on an antelope.
I am a bit confused. Did the 3 shots with the 60 gr soft points not drop all 3 of them?

[M-Tecs]

I have used and will recommend the 55 gr Barnes TTSX Bullet on Antelope http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/rifle/tipped-tsx-bullet/ They performed very well for me.

[Utah Shooter]

Sorry if I did not get my point out there. I am looking to not only reload but make (swage) my own bullet tip!

[runfiverun]

depending on your jacket.

when I first started making my own 22's I was using a lighter weight, but thicker jacket and would get fmj type performance from them.
I had to work the case anneal to dead soft, and expose some lead at the tip to make those work properly as varmint type bullets.

the main difference between them and the ones I'm using right now is the jacket.
by making the first one with an anneal and the second [softer jacketed] one without, I get just slightly different results on target because of the jackets metallurgical make-up.

I could make the first ones behave more like the second by annealing less [or just less of the jackets tip], exposing less lead at the tip [balance] or using a slightly harder core to resist de-formation on impact.
or a combination of all three to help control the out come after impact.
these are all things guy's like hornady, speer, and barnes were fighting when they first decided to start offering consistent hunting bullets too.

[gtgeorge]

I am a bit confused. Did the 3 shots with the 60 gr soft points not drop all 3 of them?
I am sorry, yes it did but I am concerned it would not do the same for a larger and tougher one. I am still suffering from the 3 losses in a row with the Barnes pills I started the season with and had no blood trails to follow and searched for hours in each case. Maybe I shouldn't be so quick to not recommend it and get over my first failures.

I did take the 7mm mag out to make sure it didn't happen again and lost a 200# + hog as well. After almost never having a loss to 4 to start of last season I am flip flopping on my abilities as well as my equipment. Thanks for waking me up with such a simple question to put things in perspective.

I would recommend a soft point in the .223. :bigsmyl2:

[fredj338]

Maybe some copper tubing to get a better performing bullet. Me, not a fan of 22cal rifles for anything but varmints. Antelope can run along way wit a bad hit or bullet that doesn't get the job done. As noted above, unless they are DRT, not much of a blood trail from the 22. Then again, tracking a wounded lope is more about keeping them in sight long enough.

[roverboy]

With very good shot placement and good expanding bullets(I wouldn't use anything under 55 gr.)I really don't see a problem. I've killed 2 small bodied bucks with a .223 and Sierra 55 gr. spritzers. They were both at close range(about 30 yards or less)and both were down with in about 25 yards. I shot both behind shoulder. I don't use it anymore though. I prefer more punch and penetration. You could probably come up with a good swaged bullet of about 55-70 gr. that would work good.

[BT Sniper]

Maybe some copper tubing to get a better performing bullet. Me, not a fan of 22cal rifles for anything but varmints. Antelope can run along way wit a bad hit or bullet that doesn't get the job done. As noted above, unless they are DRT, not much of a blood trail from the 22. Then again, tracking a wounded lope is more about keeping them in sight long enough.

This brings up a very good point. Two years ago my dad drew a very tough draw in Southern Oregon that took 14 years worth of preference points. All the research I did about best way to gather quality meat that didn't taste gamey was to not shoot them while or after they run. Something about the adrenalin or something tainting the meat. It was the opinion that a wounded animal that goes a long way before expiring might not produce the best meal for the dinner table.

Come to your own conclusions here but make your shot/shots count.

Good hunting and swage on!

BT

[fredj338]

This brings up a very good point. Two years ago my dad drew a very tough draw in Southern Oregon that took 14 years worth of preference points. All the research I did about best way to gather quality meat that didn't taste gamey was to not shoot them while or after they run. Something about the adrenalin or something tainting the meat. It was the opinion that a wounded animal that goes a long way before expiring might not produce the best meal for the dinner table.

Come to your own conclusions here but make your shot/shots count.

Good hunting and swage on!

BT

There is a point to that. I have shot a few, all with 7mm & 14-145gr bullets, none have ever gone more than a few yards. Dress them right away, keep any hair off the meat, one of the best eating animals I know.

[SquirrelHollow]

This brings up a very good point. Two years ago my dad drew a very tough draw in Southern Oregon that took 14 years worth of preference points. All the research I did about best way to gather quality meat that didn't taste gamey was to not shoot them while or after they run. Something about the adrenalin or something tainting the meat. It was the opinion that a wounded animal that goes a long way before expiring might not produce the best meal for the dinner table.

Come to your own conclusions here but make your shot/shots count.

Good hunting and swage on!

BT
Antelope are my preferred big game animal. I really enjoy the hunt, but I'm also there for the meat. I usually take two does in a given year, with much of my family doing the same (two apiece for every hunter that draws). Properly cared-for antelope is delicious and amazingly tender.

I have my own set of basic rules for antelope:
1. Drop them where they stand. Headshots are preferred, but high, double-lung shots work great as an alternative with minimal travel (typically 25 yards or less). (Don't try for the heart. You'll bust up the shoulders and lose 20-30% of your meat. ...These things aren't Elk, where you can afford to lose 10-15 lbs.)
2. Don't shoot anything that's running, unless you need to stop a wounded animal. And, even then, don't bother pulling the trigger unless you know what you're doing.
3. Don't shoot anything that's spooked or has been run. It won't be as tasty. (For me, getting the best meat means shooting during the heat of the day, or in nasty wind storms, because they're bedded down, super-calm, and sometimes asleep.)
4. Get the meat cool, but stay away from ice. Ice will cause cold-shortening of the muscle fibers and result in horrendously dry meat.
...And that's about it. Most of my other 'rules' are situational, general hunting related, or geared toward all-around inexperienced hunters.



The 'smallest' thing I hunt antelope with is a 6mm wildcat (equivalent to .243 Win) using 95 gr SSTs. If I hadn't built the 6mm on the action that was formerly a .220 Swift, I might consider .22 caliber. But... that barrel is gone, and the 6mm is superior (for my uses).

If I were to do it....
I'd aim for a 60-75 grain finished weight, a core just slightly hardened with tin (30:1? 40:1?), bonded, using Corbin VB jackets.
If I didn't have a barrel that would stabilize a bullet that heavy, I wouldn't use a .22.

[BT Sniper]

Yep, I remember driving threw WY and ID, although I don't remember too many antelope in ID they where thicker then cattle in WY.

Here in Oregon the antelope season is the 2nd or 3rd week in August, YES AUGEST! The year my dad drew his tag not one day in the high desert of South Eastern Oregon was below 95 degrees! Hot for sure but a fun hunt. He got plenty of shooting, seems every shot was over 400 yrds but didn't connect. Certainly seen plenty. It was a fun hunt but boy was it hot, taking care of the meat would have been a challenge in such extreme temps.


BT

[Gunnut 45/454]

Then my 69gr swags should be just the ticket! If they shoot well enough the wife will be using them in the PSA 16" carbine with a 1:7" twist. These examples are CCI 22mag cases which are thicker then 22LR's so they should hold together nicely as my cores are harder then PB cores. :bigsmyl2:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]110338

[runfiverun]

remember you can go too hard and have no expansion..
test, test, test..

[SSGOldfart]

I'm sure it can be done.

In the past, I used 60 grain Partitions in my 22-250, around 3600 FPS.

Worked like a charm for muleys, pronghorn should be no problem.
What was your shot placement? I'm building a 22-250 now.

[kweidner]

So would you also say that a 52gr HP would work as well?

My cousin used my 52 gr hp from RF to kill three this year. neck and head shots. I have killed hundreds of deer over the last 20 years inside 200 yds with a Watson 52 gr fb built on Deitsch Dies IIRC. Never had one take a step. It requires head and neck shooting IMHO. One of the largest bucks I ever shot was in the neck with .223 using that 52gr. I would not hesitate if a neck or head shot presented itself.

[Gunnut 45/454]

runfiverun
Well I did the water jug test today at 50 yards, got three jugs of penetration! Found the core/jacket still together in the third jug it weight 26 gr. So the core maybe to soft? The load was 20 gr IMR4198 at about 2700fps out of the PSA 16" carbine. I'm thinking it should perform better at 100-150 yards. If anything it would make one heck of a SD/HD round.:bigsmyl2:

[runfiverun]

three jugs of penetration is pretty impressive actually.
that's about 20" of penetration through water.

there's a little more to the story though
how did it shred the weight?
was it in fragments? or did it open and shear/smear petals of alloy off.
that's the difference between controlled expansion over time/distance and having a " frontal failure" with just enough integrity to continue it's journey.
the shoulder bone could make the difference.....
keep on going, you'll develop either a confidence in your bullet or know what to change.
a canellure can make a little bit of difference too even if you don't use it for crimping.

[Gunnut 45/454]

runfiverun
It look to have fragged ,but what was left in the third jug was a nice mushroom with the jacket peeled back. What was left of the first two jugs didn't leave any large parts to find.

[fredj338]

You would probably get a bit better performance in flesh, water is actually quite "hard" on bullets. I still am not a fan of 22 anything for general antelope hunting. Sure, if you can be patient enough for head or neck shots, just about anything works.

[runfiverun]

with the mushroom there i'd be confident enough to try a couple of other mediums as test beds for the bullets.
an antelope is not an overly tough animal, and something you'd use for an elk is just too much for one.
i use a 25-06 with the 100gr speer controlled expansion for them.
if i hit a deer in the shoulder with this same combination i lose that part of the shoulder, if i put the bullet behind the shoulder i get good performance from the bullet.
it's very similar in the internal damage [bullet performance] as i get from my 7x57 ackley pushing a cup and core at 2850 fps [versus the 3-k plus velocity of the 0-6]
the difference is when bone is encountered the heavier, slower, bullet out performs the lighter faster one.
i use the ackley and cup/core combination on cow elk also because of the bone and penetration capability's, i won't use the 25-06 in this application.
much the same as i step up to a 30 caliber over the 7mm when hunting bull elk for the same reasons.

match your shot to what you see from the testing, however you don't want to limit yourself to only one/two options on a game animal especially something as goofyily unpredictable as a speed-goat.
you might watch one 50 yards away and only have a back rib to off side shoulder shot for the better part of 10 minutes then it just runs away for no reason.[shrug]