I need help deciding...650 or 1050?

[jrayborn]

I like to shoot a lot, not sure how many rounds a year I load and shoot, it depends on the year for sure. I load everything I shoot with the exception of blasting ammo in .223 and 7.62x39. In those calibers I blast with steel cased ammo.

Currently I load for a lot of different calibers. I have Dillon Square Deals dedicated for .45 Colt, .45ACP, .40 Cal, .357 Mag, .38 SPL, 9mm, .327 Mag.

I have a 550 for small primers and another for large primers. I have dies and conversions for .32 H&R/.327 Mag, 38 S&W, .40/10MM, 32-20 Win, .380ACP, 9mm Mak, .45ACP/.308/30.06, .45Colt, .38/.357 Mag, 9mm, 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54, 7.5 Swiss, .223, .30M-1 Carbine, .303 British, and 7.62x39.

I don't have any issues with the gear or machines, it all works pretty well, but I don't really love loading, and what I'd like to do is upgrade to a 650 or 1050 to get the case-feeder and load 9mm and .223 on that machine. I just don't have a lot of time available to load as a rule. Likely it would also be used for .45ACP and other high volume calibers.

If you price out a 650 with case-feeder its about twice as much as a 1050. I am not well off but with a purchase like this it's a lot more of a long term investment so the cost is not something that concerns me all that much because I can justify the cost by the value of the loader.

So those of you that own a 1050 or a 650 or hopefully have owned both, what is your opinion?

[DeputyDog25]

This is my two cents, if you are going to be loading that many different calibers then I would go with the 650 if you are hell bent on a Dillon. The cost of caliber conversion on the 1050 can run upwards of 400-500 each if you buy the tool heads, powder measure, conversion kits, etc... It is not cheap by any means with the 650 either, as caliber changes can run over $200 ea. I am referring to purchasing complete toolheads with powder measure and dies. If you choose to change out dies on each caliber change and adjust powder measure for each caliber, you need only purchase the conversion kits and dies. I have owned both and got rid of both and I now load on a RCBS Pro 2000. I know you are thinking I am nuts going from Dillon to the RCBS, but it is just what I am comfortable with. The choice is really yours, it is hard for another individual to tell you what to buy, because there are just too many variables involved. The 650 and 1050 are both awesome machines, and I really like the 1050 for the swage feature and the versatility of the amount of space on the toolhead. Good luck with your choice.

[VHoward]

OK. On the Dillon site right now, the XL650 with a electric case feeder can be had for $785.90. The XL650 fully decked out with all options would only be $1200. The Super 1050 base model is $1719.95.

How is the 650 with all the options twice as much as the 1050?

Get the 1050 if you intend to automate it. I would get the 650 if you do less than 5000 rounds in a month.

[jmorris]

I have both. I think the primer system on the 650 is the best that Dillon has made (I own the others too) but if 223 is going to be one you load a 1050 will be your friend.

Time or cost only makes a difference if you have more or less of one of them.


I reloaded for decades on machines that were what I would call slow (still do for a lot of rounds) but I can now load, for the rounds I shoot most, 100 in 2.5 minutes or even push a button and go about other things and come back and have a 100 rounds waiting.

[Newboy]

Remember, the 650 has a lifetime warranty, the 1050 does not.

[reed1911]

Remember, the 650 has a lifetime warranty, the 1050 does not.

That was exactly what I was going to bring up. Unless you are running a commercial operation where you will need the automated capacity for many thousands of rounds a month, and/or you will be making many calibers, then the 650 is the best bet. The rounds per hours difference is minimal provided both are operated by hand and can be assumed to be the same.

[Moonman]

jmorris,

I really respect your opinions on the different equipment.

Would you please expand about why you consider the Dillon 650's

primer system THE BEST they've made

I'm presently looking at a 650 and a 1050 JUST BECAUSE.

I really don't need either of them, but just may purchase the 1050

just to have one and work with and admire.

The Price and Warranty is not an issue for me.

Thanks in advance.

[xman777]

IMHO, the 650 has the worst priming system on the market. I have never blown up a tube full of primers on a 550 because its nearly impossible since the primer gets carried away from the tube/other primers. The 650 rotates a drum where all the primers are close enough to detonate the entire tube when something goes wrong (AND IT WILL) I really love my 650 but the 550 primer system is far better with regards to operability and exceeds the safety of the 650 system by a long-shot.
That said, I'd say buy the 650 anyways, because the 1050 will quickly cost you thousands of dollars when you decide to do a caliber change or two. It will inevitably happen and you'll be sunk later down the road.
If that's something you think you can live with, buy the 1050, but you're only gaining a bit of speed.
Also if you buy a 650 and prep your 223 brass on it with the case feeder and then run it out on the 550, you can make some quality boolits and FAST. That's how I roll my 223 currently. I also run my 45 ACP on the 550 with a crimp/seat die and a powder check, and I'd bet I could crank out close to the same amount of rounds as a guy on a 650.

[Moonman]

xman777,

Sorry, I'm looking for jmorris' opinion.
He also BUILDS improved and ABSOLUTELY neat equipment.

I stated the COST and WARRANTY is of no IMPORTANCE.
If multiple 1050's were on my want list, Brian Enos would be busy
with my orders for them.

I have multiple progressives and single stages already, I set them up
and pretty much just leave them that way for rounds I use.

I'm also basically just a pistol shooter having fun, I don't even own a BLACK RIFLE.

[DeputyDog25]

xman777,

Sorry, I'm looking for jmorris' opinion.
He also BUILDS improved and ABSOLUTELY neat equipment.

I stated the COST and WARRANTY is of no IMPORTANCE.
If multiple 1050's were on my want list, Brian Enos would be busy
with my orders for them.

I have multiple progressives and single stages already, I set them up
and pretty much just leave them that way for rounds I use.

I'm also basically just a pistol shooter having fun, I don't even own a BLACK RIFLE.

Not sure if you meant to come across the way you did, but I would feel as if you just smacked me in the face. I think Xman777 was actually giving the OP his opinion on which machine he should choose, and you were kind of gruff with your response. Just hope you didn't mean to come across that way.

[Moonman]

PLEASE READ MY POST,
I was asking for a VERY SPECIFIC PERSONS opinion
to an opinion he has on a specific priming system.

I was not interested the opinions of others on this SPECIFIC ISSUE.

Sorry if you didn't fully understand.

[jmorris]

I was disappointed when I found out that the 1050 used the same plastic oraface tip on the primer tube, it is almost always the cause of primer feeding issues. Dillon will send you new ones for free (even after the warranty is up on the 1050) but that only fixes the issue after you have a problem.

The 650 tube uses a brass tip and the rotary style simply always works. I have loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds on 650's and have never lit of a primer but I have seen it happen. I treat primer seating like sex, if your force it, bad things will happen.

It is splitting hairs because one can load tens of thousands of rounds on the SD, 550 and 1050's without problems but I have never had any problems with the systems on my 650's.

Having a priming system that is 100% is pretty important to me, enough so that I buy presses in pairs just so I have one large primer and one small primer. So when they run perfect I don't have to mess with them if I want to load with the other size.

All that said, the swage rod on the 1050 is enough reason to pick it over the 650.

[dilly]

Aren't there solutions for on press swaging with the 650?

I don't know how well they work, but I think they are out there.

[Moonman]

jmorris,

Thank You Sir, and I do respect your opinions along with your
craftsmanship, being a retired machinist myself.

Loved your analogy also, having worked around THE GET A BIGGER HAMMER TYPES.

I do think I'm going to go the 1050 route as it just looks STRONG and SMOOTH.

Keep up your crafting, I enjoy your videos also, neat steel tubing bench you have,
along with those presses.

Keep it CLEAN, Don't FORCE THINGS, if things don't feel or seem right, they are not,
STOP, LOOK, LISTEN and FIX THE PROBLEM before other issues arise.

[David2011]

There is someone producing a primer pocket swager for the 650. I don't have any experience with it yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-S-Custom-primer-pocket-swager-uniformer-for-Dillon-XL650-223-308-9mm-45-/321454459660?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad82dcb0c#ht_1401wt_1362

David

[LUBEDUDE]

Good decision Moonman.

To me, the decision was easy. I had friends with 650's and some with 1050's. All I had to do was cycle both. I won't say anything to dis the 650. It's a great machine. But in my opinion, the 1050 is just plain Smooooth and precise! Plus as JM said, the Swage operation is a big plus.

I've never had primer issues. But then, I've only run about 300k or so through my main one being, Win, Rem, and Feds.

So now I have a pair myself. I had three, but I let my brother talk me out of one. I've regretted it ever since.
I'll probably get another 1050 at some point, don't see a need for a 650. Kind of like "once you try.... you never go back".
Anyway, I have a 550 for change outs.

And you are correct Moonman, the 1050 is Strong and Smoooth!

[Moonman]

LUBEDUDE,

Thanks, I have a Square Deal and a 550 with several COMPLETE change over set-ups.

The 650 is a great press, but just by watching a slew of videos and reading a bunch,

to me the 1050 is just in another league completely, don't really need it, but I do believe

that I'll have one. That way I never have to just wonder.

Who knows, I may end up with a 650 too, I notice many people have 1050/650/550 set-ups.

[M-Tecs]

I have two 1050's, one RL 1000 and three 650's. I like the 1050's best. The RL 1000 hasn't been used yet. The 650's are used for short run or calibers that shell plates are not available in the 1050's. I highly recommend the following items and mods:


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7421299/Re_Dillon_650_improvement_Modi (http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7421299/Re_Dillon_650_improvement_Modi)

Reaming and Polishing thepowder funnels is the biggest improvement

http://hitfactorshooting.com/products/products.html (http://hitfactorshooting.com/products/products.html)

I recommend the bearing kits. Reduces powder spillage. Knobs are OK but the Uniquetek are way nicer

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231 (http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231)

Awesome. Just record your mic settings for your powder weights. Very repeatable

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/338019_Cheap_Tips_and_Tricks_For_Dillon_550B_and_X L650s___Updated_1_25_2012.html (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/338019_Cheap_Tips_and_Tricks_For_Dillon_550B_and_X L650s___Updated_1_25_2012.html)

[jmorris]

Reviews of the results are mixed but the 650 swager does not have a backup rod like the 1050 has so all the load to swage the brass is taken by the shell plate. Dillon has said they also will not warranty and damage caused from use of one.


Aside of the swager a 650 can be more efficient than a stock 1050 with many rounds, like this video of my 45 acp 650.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3hVi6PuduM

[jmorris]

However, one can modify a 1050 to do things that can't be done on a 650. Like this video of my 45 acp 1050 primer pocket culler that rejects SPP cases.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V7vSEAqkZw

[jmorris]

Once I auto drive that 1050 I will use the culler during processing brass then replace it with the swage rod for loading.

Two passes sounds like a lot of extra work but it still saves time unless you stand there to watch it. The way I have set them up, they pretty much run themselves unless they have a problem.

Like this video of my 9mm PLC controlled 1050.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

[VHoward]

Aren't there solutions for on press swaging with the 650?

I don't know how well they work, but I think they are out there.
I have the swage attachment offered through ebay. I don't think it works very well personally.

[kryogen]

I would like a 1050 but i reload many calibers and at 400$ per caliber it does not make sense to me. I think i will get a 650 with the casefeeder and switch the powder measure to save money vs buying all the quick change kits. Maybe ill just buy extra powder bars to have each one set for a caliber instead of adjusting it all the time.

i wonder if i should just sell the forater coax and do my 308 reloading on the 650 with the feeder. I hate single stage loading.

[VHoward]

Keep the Forester Coax, do the sizing on it, then trim the brass and finish the loading on the XL650.
Or get one of these https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=4215&route=C09J049N022 X-dies and skip the trimming (after the initial first trimming).

[AbitNutz]

jmorris:
What bullet feeder is that on your 650?

[jmorris]

It is a GSI with a collator I made. They didn't have a working collator when I bought my first feeder from them so I made my own. The ones I build now are much like the old KISS design.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/bullet%20feeder/feeder1.jpg




ill just buy extra powder bars to have each one set for a caliber instead of adjusting it all the time.

This is what I do.

[AbitNutz]

I'm starting to look at bullet feeders for the 650. The rotary system that GSI uses looks really wicked in your video. I imagine that it drives up the cost substantially.

Could I get you do a quick review on the various bullet feeders available for the 640? Especially the one you make...

[AbitNutz]

Sorry...occurred to me I may be highjacking the thread.

[jrayborn]

Please hi-jack away! This is all good stuff!

[kryogen]

how reliable/repeatable is the regular powder bar adjustment on the dillon?

If I just want to keep one bar for all pistols, and just note the powder adjustment, can the regular bar do that or not?

Is it more cost effective to buy more bars, or the micrometer adjuster? (how much is a powder bar from dillon?)

[jmorris]

I have one powder bar that has been set to drop the same 3.1g charge for more than a decade without adjustment. I think extra bars are $15, I keep one preset for every load I use, I store it with the tool head and preset powder check arbor.

The GSI feeder/tool head itself cost $250 for the 650 and $320 for the 1050. It is a better deal for the 1050 though as the stock Dillon tool head for a 1050 costs $200.

The only two feeders I own are the GSI and KISS feeders. The Mr. Bulletfeeder, Hornady and RCBS are others that are available these days, if I had to pick from them it would be the MBF.

The GSI is the only one that allows you to retain the powder check die and seat/crimp in two different stations/steps.

The only part I made was the collator or bullet feeder, feeder.

[Moonman]

Hickok45 has a video on RELOADING, in the video he states

while reloading 9 MM on a Dillon 550 that,

he hasn't touched that powder bar setting in at least 15 or 17 years.

He loads and shoots bushel baskets full of 9 MM.

[angus6]

I would like a 1050 but i reload many calibers and at 400$ per caliber it does not make sense to me. I think i will get a 650 with the casefeeder and switch the powder measure to save money vs buying all the quick change kits. Maybe ill just buy extra powder bars to have each one set for a caliber instead of adjusting it all the time.

i wonder if i should just sell the forater coax and do my 308 reloading on the 650 with the feeder. I hate single stage loading.

I'm reloading 13 calibers on the 1050 and am at around $65 for each conversion, as I share parts between conversions and pickup just what's needed when adding another caliber, usally Brian or Mark will have what I need used so that helps cut costs.

I find the primer setup on the 1050 much nicer to deal with then the 650, After picking up the 1050 I quit using the 550 and 650 so they got sold to clear off bench space and they are not missed at all

[kryogen]

how do you deal with different brass and primer depth on the 1050?

[jmorris]

What do you mean by "different brass", deal with it in what way, primer depth?

On the 1050 every pocket is swaged on station 3 and primed on the down stroke at station 4. Depth is set with an Allen wrench adjusting the primer push rod that is threaded into the tool head. The most consistant seat depth of any press I have used.

[kryogen]

my issue with the loadmaster is that with different brass, a setting might be good for a kind, and then it might crush a bit on some other kind. (or be too far out).
Since it's pretty much the same concept, and you cant seat by feel, I was thinking that this could happen also on the 1050.

[jmorris]

I have never had any issues with crushed primers unless I missed a SPP 45 acp case (before I had the culler) or a "ringer" where the base of the primer is removed but the ring stays in the pocket.

I load more mixed brass on my 1050's than any of the other machines.

[AbitNutz]

One of tghe craziest most insane things the cartridge industry has done is make both large and small primers in 45 acp. What idiot decided that? This will almost guarantee that someone will try and mash a large primer into a small primer pocket.

[kryogen]

I just dont reload enough to be worth the price of a 1050, and I am starting to think that it's not even worth the 650 price.

[jmorris]

Over the last 30 years, I have used a lot of different tools for the job. The 1050 or even 650 press are not for everyone, especially if you load small volumes and time is less concern than money.

They don't do anything that a single stage and some time can't do.