One shot groups?

[idahoron]

I for years I have went to the range and the first round was the only one that counts. I get out to the range and I get ready. After I get he rifle loaded I found out that I didn't take my shooting sticks. I didn't want to shoot over the bench so I decided to use my shovel as a monopod. I walked out to 150 yards and shoved the shovel into the soil and got ready to shoot. I had a slight wind going from left to right so I set the sight and held a pinch into the wind. I got a sound back that told me I hit it but I didn't hit solid. I walked back to the truck and looked through the scope. I had held a pinch too much to the left and the bullet hit the edge. So now the follow up shot was a buck I had just shot a pinch too far back. It was hit through the liver and was still on it's feet. I reloaded and ran to the shovel. I took it back to 175 yards and set up again. I decided to set the sight for 175 and hold again a pinch into the wind. I was shooting over sage brush and rolling humps. I knew the brush at 100 yards was somewhat in the way of sight but I thought the bullet would be too high for the brush to be a problem. I waited for the wind to steady a bit and set the trigger. After the shot the solid WHACK came back from a solid hit to the steel gong. I got to the truck to see a center hit. I think my son's rifle is ready for his hunt. I got to shoot mine next time. Ron



http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/target1_zps6320aced.jpg

[johnson1942]

thats quite a dent in that gong. alot of good energy their.

[idahoron]

The deep dents were from a 308 win

[John Taylor]

Good shooting.
My wife and I were at a friends house for the forth and I had my little 32 underhammer along because they were shooting at clay birds. I shot it a couple times and then ask my wife if she would like to try. I had not hit anything at the time. She is not much into guns and I had to explain how to line the sights up. She hit a clay bird at about 40 yards and then ask me about the sights again but chose not to shoot again. I shot a few more times and still did not hit anything I was aiming at. I don't think I will allow her to shoot anymore.

[Fly]

I bet the back strap will be tuff as hell.(wink)
Fly:bigsmyl2:

[dondiego]

I have found my group size to be much smaller measuring the one shot groups.

[C. Latch]

I'd be scared to death to shoot your cratered targets.

Craters = asking for a reverse-angle ricochet.

[tunnug]

I've been able to shoot one shot groups into the same hole, consistently............[smilie=1:

[HollandNut]

from a hunting standpoint one shot groups are all that counts in most cases

[gnoahhh]

Maybe, but statistically it doesn't indicate much. Who's to say that subsequently firing four more shots wouldn't show that the rifle is actually sighted in way off to either side, and that one shot was a fluke? The next shot down the pipe could land in the other edge of the theoretical group, and still not tell you much. It takes multiple shots with the same sight setting/rest/wind doping/light/etc. to prove definitely where the gun is hitting.

[GARD72977]

I'd be scared to death to shoot your cratered targets.

Craters = asking for a reverse-angle ricochet.

Shooting over 100 yds with a pure lead bullet is a pretty safe bet.

[johnson1942]

i recently made a 6 inch circle cut out of heavy steel and it is only 35 yards out behind the house. it does dent because my guns are very powerful. but i took into consideration your concerns and when i set it up i set it at a angle to the left of me from where i shoot at it from the deck. it looks to me like 4 inches wide and 6 inches high as i sight in on it. all the bullets hit and go left into a mound off dirt by the fence line. my big .50 with a 686 grain pp bullet really dents it but still goes left. their is no turning back if one bounced back and took a eye out or worse killed you. may be that is why some gongs swing when hit, it may defuse the bullet. mine just go consistantly left.

[idahoron]

Does this tell you anything about the gun? I am well past the stage of sighting the gun in or testing the load. The one shot group is to practice "hunting" situations. I went through all the shooting for groups years ago. This gun shoots sub 2" groups and on my best days 1" or under. My 45 will shoot well under 2" groups and under 1" a lot of the time. BTW this is with peep sights.


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/500SW3-22-08small.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/RCBS11mmgroup2.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/RCBSgroupCleanbetweenshots.jpg

[idahoron]

My gong swings. The steel in my gong is super hard. A 308 will leave a crater but soft lead won't do much more than a ding at 100 yards. The muzzleloader bullets spray into a million pieces when they hit this thing. There is no way they are going to bounce back. Not with soft lead. In this picture the three in the center are shot at 100 yards.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Jacobsgroupoffsticks8-11-12.jpg

[Omnivore]

Nice shooting, Idaho.


Craters = asking for a reverse-angle ricochet.

Not at all. You hit a crater at close range, like 10 or 20 yards and yes, it can hurt. I've seen it cause bleeding from tiny wounds where tiny bits of lead splash came out of a deep crater. At over 100 yards, the light splash-back dissipates very quickly.

And bullets don't "bounce" off a hard target like that. Soft lead or jacketed, they splash like a wet snowball hitting a brick wall if they hit fairly square. The lead splatters out in all directions, along the plane of the surface it hits, unless the strike angle is very steep. You can test this by watching the splatter pattern in the surroundings after a lot of hits on the steel. With the little bit of target angle that most people think is doing something, the lead still splatters out in all directions along the plane of the target surface.

With high enough velocity, as with a .308, it craters the steel and so the ejecta can come right back at you if you're too close. At 25 yards or so it can hurt, but it won't kill you. Ask me how I know.

Anyway; the one-shot routine is a VERY good way to practice for serious shooting. Unless you're carrying shooting sticks, or a shovel in the field though, it should be done from standing, kneeling, prone, or field expedient rests, as might be expected in the real world. Have a friend identify one of several possible targets at different, random distances, then get into position as you're eyeing the target, and take the shot. See how long it takes to make solid hits in that situation.

[357maximum]

Maybe, but statistically it doesn't indicate much. Who's to say that subsequently firing four more shots wouldn't show that the rifle is actually sighted in way off to either side, and that one shot was a fluke? The next shot down the pipe could land in the other edge of the theoretical group, and still not tell you much. It takes multiple shots with the same sight setting/rest/wind doping/light/etc. to prove definitely where the gun is hitting.


Once the load is found for that gun and the paperwork/workup/sight in are done, the rifle/load is proven and that stage is over. IMO IdahoRon/HollandNut have the right idea.....A gun and person make venison and you normally get but one shot....charts/graphs/diagrams/paradigms/calculators and reams of braggin groups help in no way whatsoever and have now become unimportant, that stage of the game is ove and is nothing more than mental masturbation at this point.

Now the loose nut behind the bolt needs to be tested....that is what the OP is doing.

IdahoRon....thank you....very good thread.

[357maximum]

I bet the back strap will be tuff as hell.(wink)
Fly:bigsmyl2:


But you can keep it in the freezer indefinately and it will not go bad. :lol:

[idahoron]

:drinks:

[idahoron]

When my son drew this muzzleloader antelope hunt he practiced for a few weeks and then we went to the one shot group or one shot range session. He would dress just the way he was in the picture and I would give him one shot. He had to ring the gong to get an icecream cone for the ride home. He would be excited to take the one shot and it didn't dig into his weekend. When the shot came the buck seen the decoy and came running. He was on the shooting sticks and ready. At the shot the smoke cleared quick and the antelope was still on his feet. The bullet was skipping across the ground and the dust was flying from the bullet. The antelope turned to run and Jacob said no way I missed. I laughed and said you didn't he just doesn't know it yet. He went 20 yards and piled up. His work shooting from different angles uphill and down hill, and from thick brush and open fields. He was ready and the on shot group helped him to do that. I would post picture of my daughter with the game she shot after practicing like this but they were with a centerfire.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Antelope%202012/Jacobshunt11.jpg

[357maximum]

IdahoRon


In a word.......AWESOME :drinks:

[johnson1942]

ron, my friend who was useing a lyman greatplains fast twist shot at a antelope buck just like the one your son got. it was 150 yard shot. he said also, how could i have missed? i said, you didnt, didnt you see the ground plowed behind him was not out of line with him. he said, i think your right. the buck ran for a little bit then just stopped and stood their. we went after it and a second 90 yard shot in the head put him in the freezer. the cross wind made my friend miss the heart and do a lung shot. a cross wind can really move a bullet sidways. i remember watching him crawl up on that buck. it was really fun to watch as i could see the whole thing from my position. my friend, the buck and especially the beautiful mountains in the background. where you live is beautiful and where i live is beautiful. drove to rapid city to day, counted over a 1000 bee hives along the way. isnt it amazeing what some rain can do.

[johnson1942]

well i wanted to try what you did. set a old 5 gallon pail at 135 yards infront of a round bale. the load was 100 grains of 209 powder by volume behind a .338 pp bullet that weighed 335 grains. the sights are set at 35 yards dead on. hit a little low and a little left of center. the reason for the left was a good cross wind. the reason for a little low was 135 yards and the sights are set at 35. that gun is ready to go this winter for deer. you gave me the fever. mailman told me today he is seeing a lot of bucks, some as close as 1 mile from my house.

[OnHoPr]

Congrats to your son idahoron, looked like a real good shot.