I identified what looks like a big discrepancy between manuals

[Animal]

I noticed that Hornaday 9th ed p831 gives a starting load of 6.8gr and a max load of 8.9gr (.44 special w/aa#5 240gr cast bullet) with a COL of 1.490.

The Lee 2nd ed (before the most recent revised edition) gives a min charge of 6.2 and max of 6.8gr. (except 245gr lead bullet) with a min COL of 1.600.

Lees max load gives 860FPS. Hornadays minimum load of 6.8gr gives 650FPS.

I realize that we are dealing with 2 slightly different bullets and the test barrels used are probably also different, but this seems like a very big difference for only slightly different bullets.

My curiosity is peaked because I just recreated hornadays load with their bullets, their suggested COL and even used a CA Bulldog (with 4in barrel as opposed to hornadays CA Bulldog with a 3in barrel). I settled on 7.2gr of AA#5 because it was the most accurate, easy to handle and mostly clean.

According to Hornaday, my load should have clocked at approx 700fps. According to Lee, my velocity should have been WELL over 860fps and my gun probably would have exploded.

Now, by no means do I claim to be an experienced or seasoned loader, so I would like to see what you folks think of this before I continue making anymore 7.2gr rounds. I'm drawing conclusions of what makes sense, but I know there must be some areas that I'm misunderstanding. Thanks,

Animal

[Hickory]

What you have discovered is the reason why it is ALWAYS necessary to work up a new load, or a old load, especially when any components have changed.

[waksupi]

Seating depth and bearing surface bear directly on pressures.

[rintinglen]

One of the reasons I steer clear of AA powder is exactly this sort of data problems. Depending on where in the world the powder was produced, the burn rate can very markedly.
I would definitely place more credence in Hornady's information than in Lee's. Lee tested exactly none of the data shown. It is re-printed, with all the attendant possibilities for error, from older manuals. As an advertisement for his products, Lee made a pretty good Manual.

For what it is worth, Speer Reloading Manual 14, shows a min of 8.4 and a max of 9.3 grains of AA-5 for 868 and 936 fps, respectively, for a 44-250 k cast boolit from a 5.5 inch barrel. Lee's data is probably from older sources. My 1987 vintage Speer Reloading Manual 12 shows 6.7 grains for a 38 Special 125 gr. JHP load. No 44 Special loads were listed for AA powders. I'd go on line and check Western Powder's data for current AA-5 load info.

[tazman]

The following data was from the Accurate powder website for AA5 powder.

240 (Lead) LC RN FP min 6.1gr 757fps max 6.8gr 860fps 14,000psi OAL-1.480
Test barrel length was 8.150"

[Animal]

The following data was from the Accurate powder website for AA5 powder.

240 (Lead) LC RN FP min 6.1gr 757fps max 6.8gr 860fps 14,000psi OAL-1.480
Test barrel length was 8.150"

Now that looks a lot like Lees data, but a 240 grainer instead. I'm sure that 8in barrel accounts for at least 100fps.

[Animal]

I'd go on line and check Western Powder's data for current AA-5 load info.

I'm doing that as we speak.

Thanks folks, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who is seeing something strange about this.

[MT Gianni]

Another reason to have more than one manual.

[reed1911]

Thankfully we have access to many data points, all the major manufactures either sell quite inexpensively or give away for free the data. If you don't have at least two points of data, you can sure ask here and we can all help. My method is to gather as much data as possible and work from the lowest starting point and go up. I can honestly say I've never gotten best accuracy from top end loads, it has always been middlen' or slightly backed off of the top end. just MHO

[tazman]

Thankfully we have access to many data points, all the major manufactures either sell quite inexpensively or give away for free the data. If you don't have at least two points of data, you can sure ask here and we can all help. My method is to gather as much data as possible and work from the lowest starting point and go up. I can honestly say I've never gotten best accuracy from top end loads, it has always been middlen' or slightly backed off of the top end. just MHO

I agree with this, including the part about accuracy.

[oger]

Not to change the subject but be very careful with the Bulldog. I just shot a nice one loose with 25 rounds of my std load of a 215 gr cast and 7.5 gr of unique.

[Alferd Packer]

The first advice an old reloader follows is to use the minimum load first and shoot a few to see what's what.
The newbe reloaders always start with more powerful loads, usually the max load listed, or half way between and that's going to get you in trouble some time if you don't slow down.
If you reread that reloading manual, you will see where they recommend that you use the minimum load first.
You have the benefit of two reloading manuals and you should use the lighter of the two for your first attempts.
I don't believe you will find that 6.2 grain load too wimpy in that Bulldog pistol.
However, that 7.2 grain load will probably feel too heavy.
My advice is to only load a box of the 6.2 grain loads for your first trip to the range, or you could load fifteen shells with 6.2 and ten more with 6.4, ten with 6.6 and fifteen with 6.8.
Keep them marked and record how they felt when you shot them and record the group you shot. Your accuracy. Group size etc.
And let us know your results.
I would be interested in the results and I'm sure a few others would too.
Good Luck reloading!

One more thing, put a good crimp on those loads. In a Bulldog or a lighter gun, those bullets will sometimes shoot loose and either seat deeper or probably walk out of the cartridges as you work your way around the cylinder while shooting.
When you shoot the heavier loads, stop and don't fire the last round in the cylinder, but pause and pull it out to see if it is still seated, or if the bullet moved any. If it moved, then you may have to use lighter bullets.
It's a slam hammer effect with lighter guns and heavier bullets, but the lighter loaded cartridges fare better in this respect.

[richhodg66]

Not to change the subject but be very careful with the Bulldog. I just shot a nice one loose with 25 rounds of my std load of a 215 gr cast and 7.5 gr of unique.


Sorry for the hijack, but when was your Bulldog made? Charter Arms has changed hands so many times, I hear variances in quality control have been problems.

Mine is at least 25-30 years old and I must have a good one. I don't shoot it often and don't hotrod it when I do, mainly because it's unpleasant to shoot with much more than minmum loads. I like it and sure wouldn't want to hurt it.

[Animal]

Alfred, I started at the Hornaday minimum. I was using their bullets, same primer and case and same brand gun and same listed OAL. The Lee manual never listed the same powder for a 240gr Boolit so I didn't look much further. However, I just fired 45 rounds of the 7.2 charge weight. It was a very pleasant, accurate round. It didn't feel wimpy, but by no means did it feel like a light load. Each 5 shot group resulted in one real big hole at 7 yards. I didn't test much further than that. I was wanting to get a feel for the recoil, make sure no excessive pressure signs were seen/heard and get an idea for how clean the powder burned. Aside from the powder being dirtier than I had hoped for, all went very well. I just purchased a Lee 240gr TL SWC 6 cavity mold and a Saeco 200gr Trunicated FP 2 cavity mold (it was on sell). I'll be working with different powders for these two molds. The AA5 didn't leave the chambers clean enough to allow the next rounds to drop in very easily.

I intended to bring my micrometer with me to measure the 5th round for crimp-jump, but I forgot. I put a medium roll crimp on those rounds with the Lee seating die. I don't think there was much problem though. I'll try to remember for the next time. And just to note, I am a new loader. I've got about 2 solid years behind me. One thing I haven't done is start a load from higher than the minimum. Accuracy and reliability are much more important to me than velocity.

[Animal]

Richhodge, I'm not so sure of its production date. I bought it new, last month. I am impressed with the quality. There doesn't seem to be any kind of constriction in the bore. Lock-up is on spot and the trigger is smooth.

Originally the trigger was a bit rough and unpredictable, but after about 50 rounds it smoothed right out. The only thing that looks like a QC problem is the throats. They just appear to be a little on the rough side. Either they don't polish them after cutting them out, or they forgot to do it on mine. I'm not to concerned with it though. It does a great job with how they designed it.

I'm like you also, I have no desire to hot rod this gun. Light to middle of the road charge weights will do just fine for defensive purposes with a 200 or 240gr boolit. I can't wait to start dropping my own.