1891 Argentine Cavalry Mauser w/CB

[GuzziRider]

I picked up this rifle in 7.65x53 Argentine a few weeks ago. I have bought and fired PPU 174 grain FMJ factory ammo in it with good results. However this is both expensive and hard on the shoulder in such a small light weight gun. I am looking to work up some cast bullet loads for it. I want to use it the vintage military rifle matches run at our local range. I have been looking at the 185 grain .312 Lee mold for the .303 Brit. I was wondering if anyone here has tried this bullet in the 7.65 Argentine and if 30 cal. gas checks will work with it as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[petroid]

Those rifles are "supposed" to use a .313 bullet and unless yours is really tight and pristine that mold will likely be too small. Slug your throat and bore. Measure the inside of a fired case mouth. These measurements will determine what size boolit you will need. NOE makes a 316299 which is basically a copy of the Lyman 314299 but fatter and it would probably work quite well

[462]

My '91 Argentine requires that Lee boolit be sized to .3145".

[Larry Gibson]

I picked up this rifle in 7.65x53 Argentine a few weeks ago. I have bought and fired PPU 174 grain FMJ factory ammo in it with good results. However this is both expensive and hard on the shoulder in such a small light weight gun. I am looking to work up some cast bullet loads for it. I want to use it the vintage military rifle matches run at our local range. I have been looking at the 185 grain .312 Lee mold for the .303 Brit. I was wondering if anyone here has tried this bullet in the 7.65 Argentine and if 30 cal. gas checks will work with it as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I've used the Lee C312-185-R in my M91s with excellent results. Mine are not the Carbine though and have .312 - .313 barrels. I found the C312-185 cast of COWWs + 2% tin or #2 alloy drop at .313 - .3135 out of my older single cavity mould. I seated/crimped the GCs on and lube in a .314 H&I die so they were basically "as cast". Loaded over 24 gr AA5744 and a Dacron filler they ran right at 1800 fps +/- out of my various M91s with 22 - 24" barrels. Accuracy hovered around 1 1/2 moa with scout rive with 3X scope and 2 - 2 1/2 moa with a Lyman SME receiver sight. I used a good NRA 50/50 lube and had no problems with leading. If I didn't have a 6 cavity GB mould (314291) I would be still using that Lee C312-185 bullet in my M91s......still have the mould though.......

Larry Gibson

[Scharfschuetze]

Just got 'a love those Argentine Mausers.

I've been using the Lyman 314299 sized at .314 with GC and NRA 50/50 lube over 4759 powder for a touch over 1800 FPS. The load, like Larry's above, is about a minute and a half load.

[kungfustyle]

used the 155g Lee 312 mold and it worked out great over 2400.

[GuzziRider]

Thanks Gents,
Just the input I was looking for. I was pretty sure that this would be the place to save some time and get headed in the right direction on this project.

[Kraschenbirn]

Even after I lapped the mold cavities out to drop a boolit large enough to size .314 (my bore slugs .3115-.312), I never managed to assemble a really 'good' load for my '09 Argie Carbine using the 185 Lee. Boolit performs quite satisfactorily in both my Longbranch #4Mk1 and my M91/30 but not in that shorter-barreled Mauser. The Lee C312-155, on the other hand, dropped .314+ right out of the box and, over 18.5 gr. of A2400 or 24.5 gr IMR4198 print consistent 2"-3" 5-shot groups (issue sights) from my gun. Boolits are lubed with Lars' Carnuba Red...and, yes, .30 cal GCs DO work just dandy on .31 cal. boolits.

Bill

[WILCO]

Those rifles are "supposed" to use a .313 bullet and unless yours is really tight and pristine that mold will likely be too small.

That mold can be beagled.

[GuzziRider]

Even after I lapped the mold cavities out to drop a boolit large enough to size .314 (my bore slugs .3115-.312), I never managed to assemble a really 'good' load for my '09 Argie Carbine using the 185 Lee. Boolit performs quite satisfactorily in both my Longbranch #4Mk1 and my M91/30 but not in that shorter-barreled Mauser. The Lee C312-155, on the other hand, dropped .314+ right out of the box and, over 18.5 gr. of A2400 or 24.5 gr IMR4198 print consistent 2"-3" 5-shot groups (issue sights) from my gun. Boolits are lubed with Lars' Carnuba Red...and, yes, .30 cal GCs DO work just dandy on .31 cal. boolits.

Bill
I slugged the bore yesterday and it ran .3145-.315". There is some pretty good wear but the rifle still shot well at least with factory loaded PPU FMJ at 75 yards. (pic below) Worth at least trying the cast loads. I think I will go with the inexpensive LEE mold and if needs be lap it out to get what I need and go from there.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/GuzziRider/20140704_110218_zpsfe12ee8a.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GuzziRider/media/20140704_110218_zpsfe12ee8a.jpg.html)

[GhostHawk]

Guzzirider between the .312 of Mosin Nagant and 7.62x39 and the .324 of 8mm there doesn't appear to be much in Lee Molds.

I can tell you that I have both the .312155 and the .312185 both in gas checked, lube groove design, and both work fine in my .762's. I do prefer the 185 gr as it simply has more room to work with, so lube grooves are larger, and spaced farther apart. Giving IMO a better bearing surface.

For your .3145/.315 I would recommend a custom mold.

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=9694&forum_id=10&jump_to=67872
I would recommend reading this which has a link to an article on honing out your own molds.

Best of luck to you sir!

[leadman]

I have been using the Hi-Tek Red Copper coating to sucessfully increase the diameter of the Lee 312-160 TL and Lyman 314299 to work in oversized bores.

[Uncle Grinch]

I have had good luck with Lyman 314299 and traditional loads with Red Dot and 2400.

[jonk]

I have an engineer's carbine, which is very similar. Never going to be a real top notch shooter with the short bbl and short sight radius, but it will do pretty well with a beagled 314299 over a case full of 4831 or surplus .50 bmg powder. Stout kick. Never had much luck with fast powders in that one.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/9C6BFD0E97DDEBF/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/EE054CEF4F7EFC5/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/2A4E8C64045ADB1/standard.jpg

I've got one of these little beggars. The 1891 Argentine is my favorite milsurp BTW. The bore/groove is .303" x .314". I had some luck with the Lyman 314299 but the issue was that .303" bore, and it was tough to get a bore rider to actually 'Ride' the lands. An old friend of mine was getting out of casting and shooting due to his age, and I was lucky to buy several OLD Lyman moulds. The real gem was a 2cav Lyman 311467 that dropped a slug just a smidge over .314". Being a Loverin design there was no issue with riding the lands.

Before that the best shooting I'd had was by using the Lyman 323470 (no longer listed) which was a 165gr design for the 8mm Mauser. It dropped it's boolits at just over .324". I lube-sized'em at .324" and then ran them up through a .316" Lee type push through die I'd made. So long as it's grooves were filled with lube it handled the .008" reduction easily. The slugs DID get a bit longer but that was to be expected. Baring the finding of the mentioned Lyman moulds, there have been several 'Fat' 30's done over time here on the board. You might check with NOE to see what he might have on hand. You can also check on the Group Buy section and see what is coming up.

...............Buckshot

[Scharfschuetze]

NOE has a 316299 aluminum block mold which, as noted above, should work perfectly with the larger bored Argentine Mausers. Coincidentally, I've got one on order as well as a .317 sizing die from Buckshot (post above) for a couple of Lee Enfields of mine that need a larger diameter boolet than my 314299 will provide.

[MBTcustom]

Just for the record, there was recently a GB on an ACE 311466 mold.
There was a mistake with the cutting, and they ended up coming out .002 oversize. The entire GB is being cut again to the correct size, which leaves quite a few .316 diameter molds out there.
Seems to me that if you PM 338RemUltraMag you could score one of the "bad" ones for easy money and it would be a match made in heaven for this rifle?

Check 'er out:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?237759-Loverin-311466-two-cavity-55-mold&highlight=goodsteel