New Guy Just Got My 1874 Sharps

[Jim_P]

Hi all,

I am a complete Tenderfoot here (haven't been one of those since I was 11!) and have recently gotten a Pedersoli - Cabelas Long Range 1874 Sharps. I immediately upgraded the sights to Soule rear (medium Range) and globe front with Level (replacing the straight globe front sight without level). This is the 34" barrel. Caliber is 45-70. My plan is to hunt Bear and Deer in New Hampshire (for now - but that's where I live) and even larger game in the future. I also love killing Paper on the weekends, hence the target level sights. Local range has 50 - 100 - 200 - 300 and is working a 1000 yard range.

I lucked out and got some pretty wood, and I only notice 3 areas where the fit could be better. Minor at that. All in all, pretty happy with the purchase. While if I saved my money for a better gun, I'm not sure my own abilities could come up to those of a C. Sharps or a Shiloh. A man should know his limitations. So I think I'm in a good place with this gun - at the very least as that Tenderfoot I spoke of.

I will be handloading in the future (waiting on that Midway delivery) and might even go as far as casting. But with the current state of ammo and the availability of the parts, I'm in a bit of a pickle as to what boolits to get to meet the the "what I wanna do's". Not looking for specific loads, as I'll work my own (been stuffin cases for better than 30 years, so I know what works for you, may not work for me). I found 200 StarLine cases on Amazon and they are on the way. I've got both Pyrodex RS and Goex FFg for my Hawken here. New Hampshire hasn't followed in the rest of the neighboring states and made guns a bad word, so I can get what I need. So the what comes out the end is where I need some help. I'd like to stay with one boolit for both killing paper and deer.

I've been lurking on this site for the last couple of weeks, but need some mentoring (or as we Ham Radio operators call it - Elmering). Any help or guidance is appreciated. I've got some general ideas from reading other post, but asking for some advise for my specific situation


Thanks,

Jim

[GhostHawk]

Welcome aboard Jim!

As I am one of the few who doesn't seem to have one of those 45-70's I'll leave the advise for those who follow.
I've learned a lot here, hope you do also.

[Bullshop]

If you need boolits (cast bullets) PM us (The Bullshop) We have about 30 different designs in 45 cal. These include grease groove designs in plain base and gas check as well as paper patch designs for patching to groove diameter as well as for patching to bore diameter.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Welcome Jim.
Yep, you certainly came to the right place to be talked into casting your own.
I'd start with a inexpensive Lee mold, maybe the 405 ?
Find some Lead, range scrap should be about the right hardness.
Order a Lee melt pot, and you are ready to go.
Jon

[nhrifle]

Welcome to the family! I have a Uberti Quigley Sharps in 45-70, and while a Shiloh or C. Sharps would make a fine addition to any collection, you did not do yourself wrong in purchasing your rifle. Mine has shot nothing but the Holy Black and bullets I cast myself. The Lee 405 shoots quite well, but most of what I shoot in it are paper patch boolits. After watching the movie and studying the history behind the Sharps, paper patch just makes the whole experience better for me.

[StrawHat]

I have had 10 or 12 45-70 rifles but never a Sharps (of any flavor). My favorite load for any of them was black powder and the 405 HB boolit. For whitetails it was a bit much but it worked. I have also used the Gould bullet and black powder. It was a good hunting load.

"40 Years With the 45-70' by Paul Matthews is a good book to read.

[GoodOlBoy]

Well I've got good news, and I've got bad news for you Jim_P. The good news is that there is more combined loading and shooting knowledge here than just about any other place I have ever been. The Bad news is you have started down a path that will thrill, frustrate, and consume you for the rest of your days! Have no doubt you will start out buying bullets. I did. Also Have no doubt you WILL start casting for the 45-70 eventually particularly if you use blackpowder and substitute loads. Again I did.

My advice (correct me if I am wrong on this one fellers because it's what I am currently doing) is to buy yourself a Lee SC 459-405hb mold. This is Lee's standard old nod to the blackpowder hollowbase 405 grain boolit and I load them as cast. Alloy from Pure to 16-to-1 can be used for casting these gems. I found that my H&R 45-70 using black or sub prefers more towards the pure scale. With smokeless it prefers more towards the 16-to-1 (moderate to light loads naturally) For lubing? Well I have tried pan lubing..... it worked and worked well. Homemade beeswax lube worked better for this for me than store bought lubes did. I tried tumble lubing with just straight Lee Liquid Alox. It worked... sorta... I had some issues with it staying tacky, or getting tacky in the high heat and humidity in East Texas. I have yet to try the 45-45-10 method described in multiple places on this board, but you can bet it is my next step, and from what I have read it will be my last step as it looks to be spot on for what I need.

Don't overly stress your brass and it will last (as I am sure you know) and take some of these guys up on their offers to try a variety of test bullets for your loads. You never know. You may like the lee mold I listed, and yet you may find one of the MANY other molds that these folks use that works like the bees knees for you.

Molds I currently have and use for the 45-70 and how they work for me.

Lee Sc 459-405hb - In pure or 40-1 over black powder or sub as cast it is just a dead on accurate gem. In harder alloy with a mild to moderate load, it is still a very accurate boolit. Even in pure lead over blackpowder this load in my H&R will penetrate a big whitetail buck from the eatin end to the mud end without slowing down. Likewise the only hog I ever had slow this round down was a 400+ pound feral boar that I hit at a bad angle in the cape because he whirled just as I pulled the trigger. I know he slowed it down because it entered the right front of the boar and we dug the slug out of the left hip after it shattered the bone. $20-25 plus S&H from a number of vendors with handles.

Lee Dc 457-405-F - In 16-1 alloy or harder over moderate to heavy moderate loads it is also a fairly accurate boolit. In a good hard alloy this is a very good round for rabid log trucks. $20-25 plus S&H with handles from a number of vendors.

The only other mold I am currently thinking about purchasing is one of the collar button molds for mine. Just because I would like to have a lightweight plinker/iron gong ringer that burns less lead for fun shoots. This is the mold I will be buying from one of the several GREAT mold makers on this site. Yes I will have to pony up the cash compared to what lee molds cost, but everything I have seen and read says for this bullet it will be WELL worth it.

Good luck, and welcome to the site!

GoodOlBoy

[Wayne Smith]

I'm gonna buck the trend. First, since you aren't casting, talk to Dan at the Bullshop and get at least 100 of the Lyman Gould 457122. It is the original East Coast deer boolit for the 45-70 and still works great. Then talk to him about a hollow base 405gr and a 500-520gr. Don't get a lot of the latter - you can always re-order if you like it. Load the Gould to about 1300-1500fps and enjoy. Bear are tough. I would use the 500gr for them if you can stand it. No less than the 405 unless you are deer hunting and have a shot. Expect to shoot twice with the Gould.

Once you have shot this variety of well cast boolits you can decide with which mold you would like to start.

[Bent Ramrod]

Somebody who casts commercially should be able to get you a box each of Lyman/Ideal's 457124 (~405 gr) and 457125 (~520 gr). They may not be the most accurate boolits that you ever will find, but I've never seen a rifle they do not shoot very well in. Make sure they're a thousandth or so over your groove diameter, for starters, and not excessively hard. If you're going to shoot black powder, you'll need a black powder lube, not the hard blue or red stuff that's on a lot of commercially cast boolits.

I haven't had any impressive target accuracy out of the smaller (300-350 gr) .45 boolits, including the Gould, in any of my rifles. They were made for hunting, rather than target shooting anyway.

If you can shoot beyond the level of that Pedersoli Sharps, you're a good shot indeed. The hitability quotient of mine never fails to impress me. You may have a little trouble with snap shooting in the woods with that 34" barrel, and you may want to leave the target sights home and replace the barrel sights for hunting, but otherwise you should be well set up.

Check the Black Powder Cartridge section here and the Shiloh website for loading data for the .45-70. It's the easiest cartridge to load with BP there is.

[doc1876]

these a re a few quotes to me:

I have both of those along with a few by Paul Mathews also. I perfer Wrights Loading And Shooting the Paper Patched Bullet A Beginners Guide to the one by Loomis. Read Wrights first as it is much more thorough and explanatory. Loomis's is okay but not as step by step explained or explanatory.

countrygent,
I got ahold of Shiloh, and they had two paper patching manuals, Loading and Shooting Paper Patched Bullets, by Wright and another one that was smaller, so I ordered them, and had found a lot of good reading, thanks. I am hoping for this to be my ultimate goal.
check out this post, these guys were real good to me, and this is some great info.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?241097-do-I-need-quot-Cookies-quot

have fun here

[Jim_P]

Well first let me say thanks to all for the good advise.

GoodOleBoy - I'm a Ham Radio Op. I do know what your sayin. Good thing I'm single. I put 40 rounds through the barrel today (had a bunch of lookie lou's too) in no time. But when I started shootin the new Lyman Hawken 50 with 90 grains of Pyrodex, I had people whistling and asking "What the Hell". Yeah, go pull the trigger on your 9mm.... :)

Casting will wait for a month or so. But in the mean time I went out and shot two boxes of Black Hills 405 Gr today. Boy, it that a big gentle shooter. I'm 6'3" and weigh 250. With the size of the rifle and the size of me, I could shoot it all day without ever hurtin. On the paper with a couple of bulls at 100 yds. Not going to get too excited until I work a good consistent load from my own bench. But I'll tell ya, for a new gun with factory ammo and still working the sights for zero - it sure shot great!

Bent Ramrod, I thought about the target sights being a problem in the woods. It's why I chose the rifle I did. It came with the barrel & globe sights from the factory. Best of all worlds! Picture of my rifle attached.

I'll look up Dan at the Bullshop and get his recommendations and some lead on the way.

I also took a trip over to Roto Metals and have a chamber casting ingot comin. This way I can mic out the freebore and the barrel dimensions so I can do things right from the start.

OK, GoodOleBoy, I got the fever, what's the cure? :)

Now I gotta go smoke that Rib Eye I put in a brandy and scotch marinade Thursday Night.

Again, Thank you Gentlemen.


109925

[Bullshop]

I am right here if you need me. Just drop me a PM. I don't know what you got for barrel sights on your rifle but if its a copy of the original Laurence sight that has the buckhorn in the down position and the slider in the up position they can work good for hunting. I had a 74 in 50/90 with the Laurence sight and with a 600gn paper patch and 90gn ffg with the slider all the way down it was on at 50 yards. With one click up at 100, and up two clicks it was on at 150 yards.
I took several head of game with that set up. One was a nice mule deer buck that I had to shoot through about a six inch diameter juniper to get to. The 600gn PP boolit went through the juniper and the buck and dug a furrow I could have planted corn in.

[texassako]

I have a Pedersoli Sharps Sporting #3 and had a hard time getting used to the set trigger after shooting heavy two stage milsurp triggers for a couple of years. A round ball load has given me lots of cheap, easy trigger time to fine tune my finger.

[LAH]

"40 Years With the 45-70' by Paul Matthews is a good book to read.

Agree.

[country gent]

I have that same rifle from dundee cabellas 34" half round barrel, set triggers, I too upgraded to a long range soule rear and windage adjustable front globe on mine. Shoots great and is a real performer. I recently had it drilled and tapped so I can use my MVA 6X scope on it. Mine shoots the heavier bullets better, 510 lyman round nose 458125 is a stellar performer over 2f goex black powder. ANd it also really likes the 535 grn postel from lymann. I have a brroks mold for a smooth side cup based paper Patched bullet with a money style nose that all my 45 cal rifles like alot. Buffalo arms bullshop and others have large selections of ready made bullets to try. Purchase and test diffrent bullets, Keep detailed notes and then decide on the molds you want to buy. Ive been using alot of 20-1 alloy with black powder. Also remeber to use an appropriate lube with black powder it not only has to controll leading but powder fouling also.

[smoked turkey]

Welcome Jim. You are going to do fine here I can already see that. You are also going to have the time of your life shooting BPCR. I too like my muzzleloaders, but I have really enjoyed shooting the holy black in cartridges! I am very new at it too. I am using my Ruger No.1 in 45-70 at the present time. I am a little jealous about your Pedersoli. From what I see in the above replies you have gotten off to a good start. By the way I am WA0ATU. 73's and all the best.
Stan

[GoodOlBoy]

Cure? Heck there ain't no cure! And if there was one I wouldn't recommend it! So far you got a pile of good advice, and from that picture a DANGED fine rifle. Just enjoy the tar outa it and good luck on all your hunts. You know my favorite thing about the 45-70 BP loads is that you don't get the torn up "shock" meat that comes from alot of them newfangled mangle-um calibers, heck you can just about eat right up to the bullet hole!

Hey Bullshop! I tried the web page link on your sig, and got a "website not published" error. Do you still have a browse-able web site?

Thanks

GoodOlBoy

[NVScouter]

Both of my 45-70s like a .460 LEE 450g RNFP. They dont agree on powder but the 18" likes IMR3031 and the 32" likes R7. Push that thing cast a bit soft to 1600FPS and hunt anything short of elephants.

[GoodOlBoy]

Hey Jim_P I just found my Handloader magazine from Feb 2014 (Issue #288) and there is a very good article By Mike Venturino called ".45 Government Trapdoors" It has some excellent reading on reloading 45-70s!

Enjoy

GoodOlBoy

[Jim_P]

Thank you my friend. I'll see if I can find a copy. Appreciate the heads up. My head's been down of late - getting cases ready for some boolits...

[GoodOlBoy]

No problemo, if nothing else there are copies available on amazon.

GoodOlBoy

[John Boy]

I immediately upgraded the sights to Soule rear (medium Range) and globe front with Level (replacing the straight globe front sight without level)... My plan is to hunt Bear and Deer in New Hampshire (for now - but that's where I live) and even larger game in the future.
Soule sight for target shooting - ramped receiver sight for hunting. Otherwise you'll be looking for that same game animal the next year

[Jim_P]

John,

Check the picture. I have both on the rifle. Just above the front rest.

Jim