Lead ring around 45 case

[kryogen]

Edit: False alert. No lead. After cleaning with hoppes it looks like a carbon stain or something.


109621

Shot 10 rounds of a new test boolit today, .452 boolits (lee 230RN TL), powder coated, no scraping when inserting boolit. Gets swaged to .4515 when inserting into case.
Simply taper die to close the flare as little as possible to chamber. bullet OAL is set at 1.260 to chamber. pass plunk test.

I didn't really seem to get leading with those 10 rounds. Will have to try more.

Accuracy wasnt that great, and why do I get that lead ring around the case? never got that before.

Maybe I should enlarge the die to .4525, so they end up being swaged a bit to .4520 when inserting, and bore is .4515.

4.5 bullseye

Comments?

[kryogen]

no clue?

is anyone running a hotter load for that boolit?

Might prefer to chrony before I raise the load?

[GoodOlBoy]

That's a new one on me. But I have never tried powder coated boolits. Is it a supported chamber? Is it a blackhawk 45 acp cylinder? I'm just shooting in the dark here because I am really at a loss on this one, and I load 45 ACP.

GoodOlBoy

[Foto Joe]

I'm wondering if it's powder coating blow back and not lead.

[44man]

Soft lead!

[Finster101]

"no clue?"


Give it some time and people will chime in. I'm not jumping on you but some of us do sleep at night. [smilie=6:

[oger]

I agree with 44man have had even worse leadsticking to the case when trying to push commercial full wad cutters too hard in a 357

[HeavyMetal]

check expander plug for diameter, might be small ish then check lead hardness if possible.

45 acp does not need to be 30 BHN but it needs to be above 6, LOL!

Boolits swage down because case is to tight, lead to soft ( same issue really) or to much crimp.

If you expander plug is right, some die sets are set up for jacketed, then I will suggest you dropping boolits from mold into cold water. If you have some clip on WW metal in the pot it should bump the hardness a couple points and maybe cure the problem.

if your using straight stick on WW don't bother it won't do you any good, range lead is usually soft 22 lead as well but you may have some harder alloy in there so its worth a try.

Having said all that I have never powder coated so its new ground for me: could this "ring" be residue from the PC?

[Cherokee]

I've had that some time, usually bumping up the load causing the case neck to seal better will eliminate it. But, 4.5 BE is not a light load. Try a harder alloy first.

[62chevy]

Lee doesn't list Bullseye as an option for the 230 gr lead boolit. Most of the ones listed are slower than BE too. You might want to try a slower powder if you can.

[kryogen]

WW lead mostly.

Will reload some more and see I guess.

[bangerjim]

I'm wondering if it's powder coating blow back and not lead.

I have shot many hundreds of rounds of PC'd and others have shot many thousands. Never seen this. Never heard of it. It is not anthing to do with the PC that I have ever seen.

banger

[Old Caster]

Soft lead!

Most definitely is not soft lead because for years the Star Hollow Point pure lead bullet was the bullet of choice for Bullseye shooters and their load was 4 to 4.2 grains of Bullseye and none of us had any problem with them and I am sure the lead used is way harder than pure.

[kryogen]

I will swipe the case with hoppes tomorrow and it will be easier to inspect the case when clean. Plus it will confirm if its lead or not i guess.

[bayjoe]

What is your case length?
Maybe cases are below minimum length.

[williamwaco]

That can be caused by shaving lead during the crimping operation leaving a ring of lead around the mouth BEFORE firing.

[Old Caster]

That can be caused by shaving lead during the crimping operation leaving a ring of lead around the mouth BEFORE firing.


This is very likely if you seat the bullet and crimp with the same die because the bullet is still going down as the crimp forms.

[kryogen]

That can be caused by shaving lead during the crimping operation leaving a ring of lead around the mouth BEFORE firing.

no, did not happen. I do it in 2 operations, and I pulled boolits to check.

[kryogen]

What is your case length?
Maybe cases are below minimum length.

will measure tonight but that would be very unlikely that 10 45acp brass of mixed headstamp are too short.

[44man]

A friend bought some .45 loads cheap from a guy at work. A lot of shaved lead because the brass was not flared. They would not chamber in any gun.

[kryogen]

they were loaded properly with a proper flare/ 2nd die crimp, minimum crimp to plunk. Had nothing outside the case before firing.

will check tomorrow morning.

[Old Caster]

My best guess is that it has something to do with the coating on the bullet. Your load is with a quick powder and is substantial enough to seal the case to the chamber so I don't think that is it. If you use a powder solvent does it come off easily and is there lead still obviously on the case? If loaded with a slow powder and too light of a load, the entire case will become a sooty black color because it escapes back between the chamber and case but what you have looks darker and not so sooty unless I can't tell by the picture.

[leadman]

If this is an autoloader look at the end of the chamber and see if it has a leade (taper from chamber to rifling) as I have seen several barrels that had no leade. Goes from the chamber to the blunt ends of the rifling. Shaves the boolit easily.
I have taken a long seated boolit in an unprimed case and inserted it in the chamber and gently tapped it and then removed it to see what happened to the boolit. Found one barrel had a chamber offset to the bore.

[kryogen]

after cleaning with some hoppes it would appear that there is no lead. Looks like a carbon stain or something.

So if the load doesnt lead, it's all good?

When I get my mitutoyo micrometer this week I will measure the bore slug again, and make sure that die sizer die is really .001 more. I had a cheap mastercraft one and it wasnt acurate enough. I am probably only .0005 more than bore. Might not be enough for optimal accuracy. It didn't shoot as good as I expected.

I might try reducing the bell a little bit because it looks to me like I am damaging the end of the case by overbelling.

[Old Caster]

If you are shooting fairly soft bullets (under 12 BHN) I doubt if you are having problems with leading even if you are a bit undersized. Most 45 ACP's are .451 barrel size and usually a soft bullet will be sized to .451 just by the case swaging it down.

I have shot 32 ACP bullets that are sized to .3127 and the barrel is .3138 with no problems and the accuracy is excellent with the right load. I shot .451, .452, and .453 commercial cast from Dardas out of a Ransom Rest and the .451 bullets were far and away the most accurate but those were hard lead. The gun was a Les Baer wadcutter and the barrel measures .451. I find that it is fairly difficult to get leading with a combination of soft lead and soft lube no matter what is done but with hard lead and hard lube, it is easy.

[kryogen]

I loaded 60 or so, will try at the range on wednesday and report.
452, powdercoated.

pc is nice, it's just that it takes forever to PC compared to just tumble lubing in 45/45/10.

I was getting leading with 454510 but I had undersized boolits and scraping of the lead when inserting boolit because I was trying to crimp and seat with the same die, and it just does not work for me with lead.

[Old Caster]

I have never powder coated or tumble lubed so know nothing about it. My experience has shown that the harder the bullet, the more likely it is to lead and soft lube is easier to get to be accurate. Generally hard lube won't work well until the velocities get around 850 and above. I think the only way you can get away with using a combination seating and crimping die is if you are using a bullet with a crimping groove.

[243winxb]

powder coated, is no longer a Boolit. :bigsmyl2: Glad to see its fixed.