What Size Lee Dipper for FFFg

[Terry37932]

This has probably been asked already but here goes; I was given 3lbs for FFFg and I figured I would load up some rounds for my Ruger New BlackHawk in 45LC. From what I have been able to gather I need to seat the lead bullet on top of 30.0 grains by volume of powder, does anyone know which Lee Plactic Dipper that would happen to be?

The chart only lists Pyrodex-P an as equivlent with either the 2.2 or 2.5 Dipper, is it OK to use that or an I going to blow my gun up?

Thanks

[country gent]

You can sacrifice a case to this and make the dipper you need. Figure the depth the bullet seats into the case and fill to this amount powder. Cut case of and file square to this amount of powder. A stizz wire or wood handle can then be epoxied to the side to use it easily. Check wieght thrown with a scales and when dead right your good to go. Also leave a fired primer in place.

[DeanWinchester]

I would add that you should err on the plus side when making your dipper. A little compression on the powder is good. A little loose....yeah, not so much.

[Tom Myers]

This has probably been asked already but here goes; I was given 3lbs for FFFg and I figured I would load up some rounds for my Ruger New BlackHawk in 45LC. From what I have been able to gather I need to seat the lead bullet on top of 30.0 grains by volume of powder, does anyone know which Lee Plactic Dipper that would happen to be?
The chart only lists Pyrodex-P an as equivlent with either the 2.2 or 2.5 Dipper, is it OK to use that or an I going to blow my gun up?
Thanks

Most FFG black powder has a specific gravity of around 1 gram per cubic centimeter.
A gram weighs 15.43236 grains
FFFG, being slightly denser than FFG will have a slightly higher specific gravity.
Black powder is generally loaded by volume so, if you started out with the Lee powder measures that would hold 2.2 cc, you should be right at where you want to be.
Recommeded loadings of Pyrodex usually suggest loading to the same volume equivalent as that of real black powder.
It would be real hard to get enough FFG or FFFG black powder into a cartridge case to generate pressures high enough to blow up your gun.

[montana_charlie]

The chart only lists Pyrodex-P an as equivlent with either the 2.2 or 2.5 Dipper, is it OK to use that?
Yes ...

[Lead pot]

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_IMG_0251_zpse1eeff18.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_0251_zpse1eeff18.jpg.html)

[Don McDowell]

If you have a reloading scale weigh out 37 grs, drop it in the case seat the bullet and see what the 45 colt is supposed to be.

[Avery Arms]

You can use whatever amount of powder you want so long as you compress it with the bullet, originally 40 grains was used but due to modern (thicker based) cases 37 grains under a 255 bullet is a pretty good estimate. Loaded with black powder the .45 colt is a very mild shooting round and very low pressure, probably half the safe pressure limit of your gun.

FWIW black powder is almost 10X more expensive than equivelent smokeless loads and it is highly corrosive due to the hygroscopic qualities of the residue. This residue acts much like a desiccant and sucks moisture out of the air and retains it to rust your gun something terrible, this means taking the gun apart and scrubbing it down with boiling hot water and dish soap. For these reasons I usually save the expensive black powder for guns that require it and use smokeless whenever possible.

[Don McDowell]

10x more expensive than smokeless? Are you sure about that, or are you just spouting numbers to make bp look bad? BP at 16$ a can, and 7000/37=189 rounds for .08 per...
Having to boil you gun to clean it after shooting black.... hmmmm

[Lead pot]

:shock: It kinda makes one wonder if he ever pulled a trigger with a blk powder round [smilie=l:

[John Boy]

This residue acts much like a desiccant and sucks moisture out of the air and retains it to rust your gun something terrible, this means taking the gun apart and scrubbing it down with boiling hot water and dish soap. Avery - your totally exaggerating your FWIW!
* Yes, the foul of black powder is hygroscopic. Leave the foul in the bore of the gun IN A HUMID CLIMATE without cleaning - Yes, it will rust. I have not cleaned my BP firearms sometimes for a week. After cleaning - the metal does not have surface rust or is pitted and the bores look like they had smokeless powder shot in them after cleaning
* Taking the gun apart ... how about you tell me why my '92 Winchester that has had probably close to 15,000 rounds shot in it and I have only needed (no wanted) to field strip it to clean the internal working parts - TWICE!. Plus, this rifle has never had a broken part or due to improper cleaning failed to function

Face Facts - here's the bottom line. Many shooters are 'devoted' to shooting BP and care for their firearms in a manner that they function properly. There also are many shooters that get their jollies watching us BP shooters and would like to shoot original gunpowder ... but are too lazy to clean their firearms. On the SASS Wire, I've read many times - "I shoot smokeless powder because I have to only clean my firearms ONCE A YEAR!"

...black powder is almost 10X more expensive than equivalent smokeless loads
As for cost of powder per shot - your all wet saying BP is 10 times more expensive:
* Goex BP @ $16.00 per lb (using 37grs) / 189 reloads = $0.084656 per reload
* Pick a low burn rate smokeless powder ... $28 per lb (using 37grs) / 189 reloads = $0.1481481 per reload.

Using your you 10X more expensive ... $0.1481481 per smokeless reload times 10X ... the cost per an original powder reload would be $1.481481 per round

[waksupi]

You can use whatever amount of powder you want so long as you compress it with the bullet, originally 40 grains was used but due to modern (thicker based) cases 37 grains under a 255 bullet is a pretty good estimate. Loaded with black powder the .45 colt is a very mild shooting round and very low pressure, probably half the safe pressure limit of your gun.

FWIW black powder is almost 10X more expensive than equivelent smokeless loads and it is highly corrosive due to the hygroscopic qualities of the residue. This residue acts much like a desiccant and sucks moisture out of the air and retains it to rust your gun something terrible, this means taking the gun apart and scrubbing it down with boiling hot water and dish soap. For these reasons I usually save the expensive black powder for guns that require it and use smokeless whenever possible.


Lots of misinformation in that post.

[BullRunBear]

The 1.9 Lee dipper gives 30.3 of FFFG black powder, according to Richard Lee's Modern Reloading book. In a new model Vaquero 45 Colt, I use that dipper with Goex BP, a lubed felt wad, and my usual 255 gr LSWC bullet. This slightly compacts the powder and has proved to be accurate. I push the wad into place with the eraser end of a pencil or dowel.

If you aren't familiar with BP, you will have to clean the cases and gun. I'm sorta obsessive about cleaning my BP gear so do it the same day. I deprime the cases with a Lee universal decapping die and put the cases to soak in warm water while I clean the gun. Water will take care of cleaning the revolver, just oil it afterwards as usual once it's dry. Add a little dish soap if you like. I use a 45 caliber nylon bristle brush stuck into a dowel to scrub out the cases, wipe the outside, rinse and let air dry. It goes quicker than it sounds. Sorry if you already know this.

[TXGunNut]

FWIW black powder is almost 10X more expensive than equivelent smokeless loads and it is highly corrosive due to the hygroscopic qualities of the residue. This residue acts much like a desiccant and sucks moisture out of the air and retains it to rust your gun something terrible, this means taking the gun apart and scrubbing it down with boiling hot water and dish soap.-Avery Arms

Not in my limited experience. Somebody's been reading the propaganda again.
Back to the OP I use 2.2 or 2.5cc of FFFg depending on which boolit I'm loading.

[big bore 99]

I'm new here and this is a bit off the subject, but does anyone know what Lee dipper to use for 30-40 grains of IMR4198? I shoot a Buffalo Centenial and a Pedretti 1874 Hartford Sharps. Think this would be ok for under a 406gr cast slug? Thanks.

[Don McDowell]

I'm new here and this is a bit off the subject, but does anyone know what Lee dipper to use for 30-40 grains of IMR4198? I shoot a Buffalo Centenial and a Pedretti 1874 Hartford Sharps. Think this would be ok for under a 406gr cast slug? Thanks.
Do you not own a proper reloading scale or reloading manual?

[big bore 99]

I do have a scale packed away with some stuff in another state. I have reloaded in the past, but years ago and it was always with jacketed boolits. I have some dippers and found some IMR4198 and bought 3 Lee molds in 350gr,405gr, and 500gr. I've been looking online and thru my old notes and having trouble finding any data on this powder and cast boolits. I used a lot of XMP5744 in the past, but that can't be found lately. Just thought someone could help me out on this. Thanks.

[Don McDowell]

Check Hogdons web data, they have it listed there.

[doc1876]

whoowee, just over 20 posts between the two of you and what a fight you have started!!

Kid Curry was sitting on the bed, and the law was in the room checking him out, picked up his pistol and smelled it and said "this gun has just been cleaned." the Kid said "My gun is always clean".
words to live by

[doc1876]

btw, welcome aboard!!

[Avery Arms]

As for cost of powder per shot - your all wet saying BP is 10 times more expensive:
* Goex BP @ $16.00 per lb (using 37grs) / 189 reloads = $0.084656 per reload
* Pick a low burn rate smokeless powder ... $28 per lb (using 37grs) / 189 reloads = $0.1481481 per reload.

Using your you 10X more expensive ... $0.1481481 per smokeless reload times 10X ... the cost per an original powder reload would be $1.481481 per round ...

Back on planet earth you can't 37gr of smokeless in a .45 colt casing and to create a black powder equivelant load you only need about 4-5 grains of fast burning powder. It generally costs me 1 cent to load a .45 colt out of my 8lb bottle of unique while it costs me over 10 cents to load it with black powder from bass pro ($21.19 per pound with tax).

Where you get the idea that 37gr of smokeless is equivelent to 37gr of black is beyond me.

[Newtire]

It's like Waksupi says, you're not going to blow up your ROA with black as long as you seat the boolit on top of the powder. Triple 7 warns against heavy compression. They say it gives erratic results. They are the folks that do all the testing and I would suspect they have good reason to post these kinds of warnings.

I like to use Triple 7 as it gives improved performance and less likely to rust your gun. I don't like to mix conversations about cap & ball revolvers with conversations about cartridge guns so will avoid that.

If you are looking for a very mild shooting load and not concerned about a load that has less power, we have black MZ here in the Boise area for $9.99 a pound at the Sportsmans's Warehouse. That is certainly cheaper than any Black or Black Substitute. I am a guy who has actually used this stuff and find it to be a lot less likely to cause rust. You still have to clean your gun and the percussion cap still rusts the area around the nipple, so clean that thing. I know I can go out and shoot my M/L guns (rifles, shotguns, revolters, pistols), take out the nipple, run some T-17 cleaner or hot water even thru the bore and let it do it's thing, wipe it out until the black nasty stuff on the rag is gone, then run a cleaning patch soaked in some sort of metal protectant (same as I use in my smokeless cartridge guns) down the bore a few times to coat the bore and wipe the outside with another clean rag with a little of same protectant and call it good. Don't forget the nipple. Guns are too precious to abuse so why take chances?

[montana_charlie]

Newtire,
Do you think any of the people responding to this thread, back in 2014, are still reading it?

[Newtire]

Well Charlie, I was. Makes no difference how old a thread is to me or who responded to it when. When I'm looking for something on Google I type it in. The information comes up and I read it. People are still reading stuff that people who are long dead have written. Here, you get a chance to add to it. That's the way I look at it.

I guess that the people who posted it are not interested anymore-you're right! Don't mean to come off like a jerk-sorry! I just don't mind much myself when I'm hunting for information on a search and something like this comes up. The fact of age of the post never seems to matter that much to me. I'm just glad to get the information and don't really pay much attention to dates.