Comparing a 9mm carbine to a 9mm handgun ballistic test.

[Hunter]

I received a Hi Point pistol and carbine in 9mm Luger as test samples and I figured a good way to start the review would be by comparing a carbine to handgun using the same defensive ammunition. How much of a difference does it really make? I also included the CZ 75B Omega into the mix.

http://rangehot.com/pistol-vs-carbine-differences-ammunition-performance/

Thoughts or opinions please.

[Hogdaddy]

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H/D

[35remington]

Got "Error, Page Not Found."

[garym1a2]

goto his web site and you can find it.

[Hunter]

I am very sorry y'all. I copied the link wrong. My fault but I have corrected it.
Thanks for the heads up.

http://rangehot.com/pistol-vs-carbine-differences-ammunition-performance/

[tazman]

Very interesting. I like having comparisons like that available.
I have been considering a Hi point carbine but now I don't know. Not that much difference in performance.
The only possible reasons would be better accuracy and the same ammo for both handgun and carbine.
How accurate is the hi point carbine over it's range?

[dtknowles]

Hunter

I think it is a fine article but not great. I think ballistic performance of the carbine vs. pistol is not really important. More important to me is the greater accuracy I achieve using the carbine. The carbine also is easier to control in rapid fire and easier to teach people to shoot. It takes much more training to use a pistol effectively are ranges greater than a few yards than the carbine. I have an older HiPoint carbine and was impressed with its accuracy.

Tim

[jmort]

9mm have most of it's juice spent in a short barrel. .45 ACP same deal. You will get a couple three hundred fps more out of an 18 inch barrel.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

[petroid]

I think we all know that there is a lot more to this than just touched on in the small scale ballistic test. I for one would like to see some chronograph and terminal ballistics tests with 9mm handloads using slow powders to maximize velocity

[Hunter]

The primary reason I did the article was I had to shoot both the pistol and carbine to write the review so I thought why not set up some gel and a chronograph to see what the difference is.
I plan to shoot both the pistol and carbine from a rest at 25 yards and the carbine at 100 yards to compare accuracy and see how the carbine will shoot at 100 yards.
In my mind there is enough of a difference to warrant a long gun as an option for home defense and as inexpensive as the pair is people who are on a tight budget have a viable option.
Thank you all for the feed back.

[Finster101]

I have the carbine and I love it. I really haven't tried it out past 50 yrds really, I didn't buy it for a long range rifle. I shoot the steel match with it though and I honestly have to work at missing a plate. It is a very natural pointer. I believe if I had room for the carbine beside the bed for home defense a shotgun would fit in the same space and be my choice.

I enjoyed the write up and thought you did a nice job presenting your findings.

James

[garym1a2]

In action style shooting their in no comparison. My Beratta CX4 storm in 9mm is much faster and easier to hit targets than either on my Glock 22 or 35.

With a TRS-25 red dot the carbine is very simple to hold 3 inch groups of 10 at 75 yards. With the Glock 35 its more like 25 yards.

Not to mention the cx4 has a nice 30 round mag that i use,

If you want higher velocity for the 9mm use a slower than normal powder to take advantage of the long barrel.

[Hunter]

If you want higher velocity for the 9mm use a slower than normal powder to take advantage of the long barrel.

That is great idea. I may experiment some with that during the review.

[Finster101]

The 10 round mag is my only real complaint about the 996. A double stack mag would do wonders for it. There is plenty of room to hollow out the grip for it as well. So far mine has also fed everything from factory ammo to Lee 358-105 swc's with out a single hiccup.

[Hunter]

The 10 round mag is my only real complaint about the 996. A double stack mag would do wonders for it. There is plenty of room to hollow out the grip for it as well. So far mine has also fed everything from factory ammo to Lee 358-105 swc's with out a single hiccup.

I totally agree. I believe the thinking of Hi Point was the carbine magazine will work in their handgun (but not the other way around) but I agree, a 20 or 30 round magazine would be very nice.

[Lefty Red]

I did a range test about 12 years ago. Had a Marlin Camp 9, Ruger PC9, and the Hi Point 995.
One thing that I learned was if I was going to make a pistol caliber carbine, I would start off with a good magazine. I think the Glock magazines would be a good starting point.
Oh, the PC9 won, IMHO. The 995 was a close second. Only the magazine capacity was the splitting hair. Marlin's was just too heavy for what it was.

Like what others have said, the 9mm was developed as a short barrel. short range, caliber. You will have to reinvent the wheel to make the 9mm into a rifle round.

As far as what the 995 can do out at 25-35 yards, I was getting very good groups with WWB ammo. I used a cheap red dot and ammo and and getting <2" groups. Took allot of squirrels and groundhogs with it.

Jerry

[gtgeorge]

My results seem to be a little better as I get around 200fps extra but when it comes to accuracy I get 1 hole groups out to 35 yards and at 140 I take out clay pigeons on the hillside. And when bored it is fun to drill shotgun hulls at 25 yards all with the factory peep. Nope not a rifle in the velocity range although it beats a 22LR and a bigger/heavier bullet.

[slughammer]

?....I plan to shoot both the pistol and carbine from a rest at 25 yards and the carbine at 100 yards to compare accuracy and see how the carbine will shoot at 100 yards......

Why not join the Ballistic Challenge and shoot the pistol at 100 yards too?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?245903-2014-summer-postal-match

50 might be a good point for some data too.

[Tackleberry41]

One thing you will find with a carbine over a pistol is they tend to be more woman friendly. Not hard to find a woman who cant rack the slide on a pistol, but retracting the bolt on my Hi point carbine is way easier. And also easier for some to shoot. I wish we didnt have some of the dumb rules we have, a 16" barrel on a 9mm carbine is way to much, 10" would be better but of course now becomes some super dangerous weapon that requires more paperwork.

I have never seen any 'rifle' data for the 9mm. Probably going to be limited due to case capacity, just not going to be able to stuff much of a slower burning powder in, generally need more. But the longer barrel does make a difference. I was coming up with some loads that would be subsonic out of a hi point carbine. Went with minimum data, might say 857FPS for example in the book, pistol length, couldn't do it. Had to try several powders to find one that with minimum data would get a 124gr cast bullet to stay subsonic. Same thing happened with 40S&W thru my mechtech upper. Ended up with some really soft loads to get 180gr cast to not go super sonic. 200gr wasnt that hard to do. And does show the difference between the high pressure 9mm and 40 compared to the old 45 ACP. Even some really hot 45 200gr loads wouldn't go supersonic out of a hi point carbine.

[Finster101]

" Nope not a rifle in the velocity range although it beats a 22LR and a bigger/heavier bullet"


Right now, at least for me, it is a whole lot cheaper to shoot too.

[Hunter]

I truly appreciate all of the feed back.
I am going to look into that match. I am going to shoot the carbine at a distance before the review is over and see how it does.

[tazman]

Please make sure to post your results. I am finding this very interesting.