30/30 crimping, how often annealing ?

[rosst]

Hi, just new to loading boolits for the 30/30 - some advice please.

going to have to crimp the boolits i realise which has raised the questions - if i want the cases to last forever ( yes ) or close to it, how often would i have to anneal the cases or will that even work long term with all the sizing/work hardening going on, even at these low pressures.

FL sized with Hornady custom grade dies, trimmed, Lyman M Die, GC, boolit sized to .310

Load is subsonic 1025fps - 7.0grns Nobels No.2 - WLR primer - FC case - 180 FN RCBS GC boolit 50/50

rifle - Marlin 336 - 15'' barrel suppressed
Leupold mildot 3.5-10X40 LR109470

any advice appreciated . . . R

[YunGun]

That's a sweet rifle! Unfortunately I can't really weigh in on the frequency of annealing question as I haven't yet undertaken that adventure, though I plan to begin experimenting in that direction soon. The biggest difference I've noticed was when I switched to a neck-sizing collet die after the first handful of cases developed cracks in the neck & around the mouth - that seemed to almost completely eliminate the problem, & appears to have greatly reduced case stretching & the subsequent need for trimming. From what reading I've done on the subject it seems to be a matter of personal preference as far as how often you anneal, but most seem to have settled on around every 3rd or 5th loading.

[John Boy]

The Science of Cartridge Brass Annealing
http://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing

[ourflat]

I anneal my 300 Blackout brass after reforming from 5.56 brass to soften it up a bit so that it will not split around the case mouth. Nothing better than a freshly polished brass case with fresh annealing done! Looks nice!

Frank

[fishnbob]

Has anyone tried to anneal necks and check temps with a Temperature Gun? Does it work or do I have to experiment with it? I was thinking about setting the brass in a pan of water and using a propane torch on the neck and aftermoving around the neck, check it with my temp gun and see what results I get.

[Tackleberry41]

I load 200gr cast subsonic in my 30-30, I dont crimp them. Just a hint of flare so I can load a cast bullet, then crimp it back to straight again. But you are running a lever gun where you need a crimp, I have a bolt gun.

I never really messed with annealing until I got a 577/450 martini and had to make brass from 24 ga shotshells. I tried tempilaq, but found, just setting them in a cake pan so I can turn them in a dark garage works pretty good. You get a feel for the color after a bit. Got it down so I only ruin 3 or 4 out of a box of 25, And I have to anneal 3 times from start to finish.

[rosst]

cheers YunGun, very happy with the 336 project, my first Marlin and first time with a microgroove barrel. all positive impression so far in the 2 weeks i have been loading/shooting it since the gunsmith did the cut and tuck.
did the google/utube search of collet neck dies, many thanks for that, theyre on the list .. . maybe a while tho - so 3-5 firings and an annealing it is then.

cheers JohnBoy, a good site and well worth a look thank you

totally agree Ourflat on freshly annealed cases ' lookn good ' did my first batch of .308 cases recently and felt pritty pleased with the result, reminded me of watching the tempering colours on knife blades.

i tried a cheap infrared heat gun FishnBob on cases for longrange work, it had difficulty getting a good reading on anything shiny, maybe a more expensive model might work better . . .. good luck with that.

cheers R

[rosst]

i did have hopes tackleberry41 that i wouldnt need to crimp, being such low recoil and the full length of the neck sized. had planned on one in the chamber and 2 in the mag but after a few trial runs at the range and one bullet setting back i gave up on that idea. tried only one in the mag which worked ok giving me two shots, but it just doesnt seem worth the risk . . . reluctantly i'm going to crimp or have a singleshot.

a mate of mine is going thru the joys of making cases for his new/old 577/450 - lookn forward to letting off a few shots with that rifle, may even let myself imagine a horde of zulu coming at me as i do . . . R

[MattOrgan]

I anneal my 30/30 and other thin cases ( .32/40 .38/55 etc) every 5 to 8 firings. You can feel the hardness of the necks when you crimp and when a group of brass has the hard feel it all gets annealed. Tempilaq is the way to go, you get a consistent anneal and while brass won't last forever, my .30/30 brass lasts a long long time with 1800 fps cast loads.

[blixen]

I seat my .311" 30 cal boolits in my Marlin and Winny 30-30s tight in the necks, with a hint of crimp (I bell the necks a little to get the boolit in). If i load one in the chamber and two in the magazine tube--I don't have a problem with the bullets moving in the neck. Haven't tried to load more than that in the magazine.

[rosst]

cheers MattOrgan, blixen, . . . . gave the cartridges a very light crimp, non firing tests show the boolit stays put with up to 3 at a time in the mag, so all good, 2 at a time and 1 in the chamber will work it seems. only question to be answered is are the ballistics the same now, point of impact, fps etc . .. hope so, heading away soon for a week shooting and time is short if i need to reload more ammo etc.

many thanks for all the advice n thoughts, very much appreciated by me . ... R

[GoodOlBoy]

I do not anneal my 30-30 brass (or any others for that matter). What I find extends brass life more than anything (as has been said) is light to moderate loads and neck sizing only. This isn't a problem for the single gun per caliber shooter. No non-straightwall case is going to last forever, and in point of fact straightwall cases don't last forever either. But you CAN extend the life of the straightwall case to the point where it outlives you. For bottlenecks? That remains to be seen. But I do have some 30-30 brass that is older than I am and still being reloaded.

GoodOlBoy

[trapper9260]

I done some 30-30 brass that was old and sit a long time for years that when I first load some to test they start to split on the mouth and then I heat treat them and then no more problems as for crimp the rounds I use the Lee factory crimp die because I found that my marlin is tight chamber and after I use the Lee die I did not have any more problems.I also had to use the Lee die on my 44mag marlin also because the rounds I use in my Redhawk did not chamber good in the Marlin and after I did with the Lee die It took care of the problem for chambering.This is what work for me.

[blikseme300]

Nice rifle rosst.

I have 3 different vintage Marlin 30-30's and I have found that brass life can be extended if I do the following:

1. Use the same brass in the same rifle. There are slight differences in the chambers.
2. Don't FL size. I don't use a collet die but back out the FL die 1/4 turn.
3. Anneal after 5 uses. Easy to do using a small propane torch and case spun in a deep well socket.
4. Lightly crimp using Lee FCD or other collet crimp.

Not over working the brass and annealing extends brass life in my experience.

[rosst]

cheers Guys, i'll experiment with backing the FL die out some when i get back - anneal every 5 reloads sound good - the collet crimper will have to wait but its on the list.

got out to the range yesterday and between showers managed to check at 50/100/150/200 yard targets, POI is unchanged, a happy camper.

ok, i'm good to go thanks guys, thank you for your time/experience, its been a great help. . . R

109814 here's plan B - 1800fps or so with the 180s - Burris 1X scope