Mystery dies- .450/400 B.P. Express?

[fatelk]

I came across several sets of oddball RCBS dies that I bought, and one is something of a mystery to me. It's a 3 dies set, marked ".412 M&V B.P. Express".

I can't find anything with a Google search by that name. The closest thing I could find was a .450/400 Black Powder Express. Any ideas?

[Nobade]

I'd do a cerrosafe cast of the inside of them, that should shed some light on the subject. Possibly 450/400 designed to be used with a 405 win barrel? But no way to know without some measurements.

-Nobade

[fatelk]

A bell went off when I saw you mentioned a cerrosafe cast. There is a chamber casting in the box with the dies, in a nice little RCBS bag. I did a google search and found dimensional drawings for the .450/400 Black Powder Express 2 3/8". I measured the cast and it matches right on. I also found mention that groove diameter was known to run as high as .411 on the rifles.

I am currently assuming that someone sent in a chamber cast and had RCBS make some custom dies? I couldn't find any indication of what "M&V stand for". When I get a good idea of what they are, I suppose I'll put them up for sale on Gunbroker or fleabay since I don't think I'll ever have a use for them.

[Nobade]

That's a really neat cartridge for an elegant target rifle. Of course you need to build a rifle now that you have the dies for it!

-Nobade

[elk hunter]

I have a set of RCBS custom dies that came with my T. Turner 500-450 3 1/4" BP Magnum. Yes, it was called a "Magnum" way back in the 1880's when it was built. The box is marked "500-450 Turner Mag." Based on what my die box say's I'll guess that M&V are the initials or the rifle maker, or original dealer that ordered the rifle built under their name.

The 450-400 2 3/8" would have been a Deer/Boar or possibly a Stag hunting rifle when built and would still be great for them today.

Fatelk; If you're interested in selling the dies, drop me a PM, I may be interested.

[Huvius]

I have a set of RCBS custom dies that came with my T. Turner 500-450 3 1/4 (tel:500-450 3 1/4)" BP Magnum. Yes, it was called a "Magnum" way back in the 1880's when it was built. The box is marked "500-450 Turner Mag." Based on what my die box say's I'll guess that M&V are the initials or the rifle maker, or original dealer that ordered the rifle built under their name.

The 450-400 2 3/8 (tel:450-400 2 3/8)" would have been a Deer/Boar or possibly a Stag hunting rifle when built and would still be great for them today.

Fatelk; If you're interested in selling the dies, drop me a PM, I may be interested.

Could very well be custom dies for a Miller & Val. Greiss rifle chambered in 10.3X60R.

[fatelk]

The 10,3x60R is identical to the obsolete British 450/400 (2 3/8-inch) black-powder Express.

A quick search for 10.3x60R came up with this. Interesting, thank you.

As to selling them, I need to take the time soon to take some better measurements and figure out exactly what they are. I'd hate to sell them cheap if they're worth more, but I really haven't got a clue what they're worth yet. Any ideas?

There are other dies too: 8x56R (I'll use these), 9.3x74R, 9x56 Mannlicher, 9.3x64 Brenneke, 9.5x57/56, and .375 H&H.

[SharpsShooter]

"M&V" Modified and verified…? Seems possible.

SS