Why Is S&W Not Moving out of Mass??

[ohiochuck]

Many firearms companies have seen the light and are moving to move gun friendly states. Why is Smith & Wesson still in Mass.??

[dtknowles]

I can think of one reason, the guys who work in the S&W Custom Shop won't move, and that talent cannot be replaced.

Tim

[Lee]

S&W have been closet libs in the past. Some old habits are hard to shake. Especially when you think you're the only game in town.

"Those who don't remember their history are doomed to repeat it."

[gandydancer]

Mass is anti GUN. not anti making money from S & W.

[Seancass]

If S&W is making good money where they are, why would they bother taking on the expense and risk of moving? It's not their job to protect human rights! They're a Business! It's their job to make money!

I doubt it has anything to do with the Custom Shop. I don't know if I've ever heard of a large company that is concerned with the value of skilled trades. Everyone is replaceable.

[Finarfin]

I always try to separate politics from business, but when your product is a political issue I suppose that is impossible.

Why would they move? To make a political statement? Would that statement help or harm their business? I'd have to say probably the latter, actually. They may save some in taxes if they move to a lower tax state, or one where wages are a bit lower, but it would be hard to offset the expense of relocation without a sweet deal by some governor for a 10 year tax free period or something.

The political impact I see as double-edged. Sure, they get to stick it to the liberals and take jobs and tax revenue out of their state, and that is such a wonderful feeling to have kicked 'em in the nethers like that. So much fun! Haha, take that, you liberal slobs! We sure showed you! The only problem is that now those Democrat Senators and Congressmen from those liberal states that have gun manufacturers no longer have gun manufacturers. They and their workforce and their families are no longer their constituency. Ergo, they really don't have the same vested interest in not pursuing gun control legislation that they had before. Currently we have quite a few Democrat legislators who are pro-gun and do not vote for gun control, and we shouldn't go out of our way to upset that. I am aware that the legislators from Massachusetts are probably all for gun control, but this isn't the case in every district where a gun manufacturer resides.

[jmort]

I predict that they will move at some point. When the jobs move, some/most of the talent will move as well. Better to move and have a job than stay and tell people you used to work for S&W. California had many manufacturing jobs when I was a kid, aerospace, automobile, firearms, whatever. Now, not so much. They all gone.

[chsparkman]

Isn't Khar still in Worcester, MA? It must not be too bad in MA for manufacturers.

During the Civil War, steel was smelted and formed into barrels in several mills along the Blackstone River which were then sent to the Springfield armory to make rifled muskets for the Union armies.

It's a pity that politics are driving firearms manufacturers away from the northeast especially given the rich history of the region.

[FergusonTO35]

I think economics are what drives manufacturers to move more than anything else. Even without taking taxes into account its way cheaper to operate in Alabama or Texas. This becomes more acute when you consider that the low to medium price segment of the gun business is dominated by startup firms already operating in cheap locations and foreign marques that are really stepping up their game. The old mainline firms should be keenly aware that one of them will probably become the next industry gamechanger.

[gandydancer]

S & W has had a manufacturing plant in Houlton Maine for many years now making the 22 semi auto. also the 1911's will be made there I'm told. GD

[jrayborn]

There are several problems really. First of all the cost of energy in the Northeast is high. Second is the prohibitive tax structure in the Northeast, Mass is worse than Maine and Maine sucks. Lastly, Smith is a corporation and at some point there will be enough reward to justify the cost of moving. Quite honestly I would be shocked if they are not already planning something.

Many States would offer tax free or tax reduced status for many years to have that type of industry ( JOBS!) in their state. If I were a betting man, I'd say watch for the announcement of a new facility in some Midwest/Southeastern state that will only be manufacturing "X" product. At first anyway.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

A. 100% of the relocating costs are tax deductible.
B. labor costs will be about 50% lower in the SE.
C. energy costs will be about 30% lower

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, what was the question?

[AK Caster]

Many firearms companies have seen the light and are moving to move gun friendly states. Why is Smith & Wesson still in Mass.??


You could call their CEO and ask them:)

[dtknowles]

A. 100% of the relocating costs are tax deductible.
B. labor costs will be about 50% lower in the SE.
C. energy costs will be about 30% lower

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, what was the question?

100% of the relocation costs are a business expense and come at the cost of profit, new capital equipment have to depreciated, none of this is really tax deductible just reduces profit with is what is taxed.

Tim

[Catshooter]

You'll get nothing but un-informed opinions and guesses for answers either here or on any forum. How could we know?

If you really want to know, go buy controlling interest in Smith. Or play a few rounds of golf with it's CEO. Maybe he'll loosen up and tell you.

Let us know if you find out. We'd like to know too! :)


Cat

[str8wal]

A S&W rep was on NRA News, Cam and Co. a while back and this very subject came up. He basically said that they just have roots there and don't wish to leave. It is like family to them.

[Combat Diver]

Doesn't mean that the may consider opening another plant elsewhere to produce a new product line. I believe all there steel framed autos are built in Maine.

CD

[enfieldphile]

This, "We have no plans to move and Mass is like family" speech is a boiler plate statement. It comes right out of the "any corporation handbook".

They may be in negotiation right now, but deny anything until they are ready to bust a move.



A S&W rep was on NRA News, Cam and Co. a while back and this very subject came up. He basically said that they just have roots there and don't wish to leave. It is like family to them.

[W.R.Buchanan]

S&W is opening another plant in "I believe" Alabama. It was in an NSSF Bulletin I got a week or so ago.

Or maybe it was Remington. I already deleted the email.

Randy

[Deliverator]

Companies that are moving, from what I understand, are moving from states that are banning their ability to produce some of their products. So they are leaving that state so they can continue operating. This is not so much a political choice as it is a business choice. Why would you let a local government control your production line?

[monadnock#5]

There's a grocery wholesaler in Brattleboro, VT. Huge operation. The city bent over backwards to get them to build there in the 80's. Big concessions. In the 90's the city decided it was time for C&S to pay their "fair share" in taxes. Rather than pay the taxes, they moved their corporate offices to Keene, NH, and bought a big parcel of land to suit any possible future needs. The message, "LEAVE US ALONE". Brattleboro got the message.

The strategy here isn't to take your ball and go somewhere else. The idea is to maintain multiple venues so as to demand the best possible tax rate and other advantages. This isn't a strategy that works well in CA, but in MA, VT, NH ME... we all get it.

[FergusonTO35]

I can't imagine S&W not being permitted to manufacture anything by legislation, even though the citizenry is denied the right to purchase it. I think S&W will keep company HQ and revolver production in MA but expand elsewhere.

[RG1911]

I can't imagine S&W not being permitted to manufacture anything by legislation, even though the citizenry is denied the right to purchase it.

Well, in Colorado, the idiots passed the maximum-15-round-magazine law. Magpul could have continued (I believe) to manufacture its standard-capacity magazines here, but, if I recall correctly, all magazines would have to have been stamped with a serial number to show that they were post-ban.

The company moved its corporate offices to Cheyenne, WY, and its manufacturing to Texas.

Hi-Viz, another Colorado company that specializes in sights recently moved to Laramie, WY. I don't know all the reasons behind that move, because, so far as I know, the company doesn't manufacture anything affected by the legislative/gubernatorial stupidity.

I'm taking my job and taxes and moving to Wyoming just as soon as I can sell my house here in Colorado. My reason is entirely political -- I've watched the state degenerate for more than 25 years. I plan to spend my few remaining years where the liberal lunatics have not (yet) taken over.

Richard

[Duckiller]

S&W has a major investment in its plant and a well trained work force. As long as Mass lets them build whatever they want to and sell it other states why should they move. Moving costs money that seriously cuts into profits. Shareholders don't like reduced profits. Magpul hadn't been in Colorado for 100 years.

[FergusonTO35]

The Colorado situation with Magpul was unusual. Most anti-gun jurisdictions that are worse than CO don't care what you make or how you make it as long as you are licensed, pay taxes, and don't sell it to the citizenry.

[TXGunNut]

They really should close up shop, pack up and move. Look how well that's worked out for Marlin. ;-)

[jmort]

The story on Marlin has not been finished. As of right now it is one of hope, getting better all the time. We can only make a final judgment in the fullness of time. From what I have read, Marlin was far from a precision operation before it moved, less so after the more and an ever improving quality from the bottom right after the move. I predict good things for Marlin. We shall see.

[Whiterabbit]

There's a war on guns. Wars have front lines. When you take all your people off the front lines......... yeah, that seems like a strategy that works.

[bdicki]

I can't imagine S&W not being permitted to manufacture anything by legislation, even though the citizenry is denied the right to purchase it. I think S&W will keep company HQ and revolver production in MA but expand elsewhere.

I'm not sure what S&W products the citizenry of Massachusetts are denied to purchase. Look into the history of why Glocks are Mass compliant but not available to the citizenry by decree of the attorney general. Mass has treated S&W very well.

[FergusonTO35]

Very good point! Isn't it funny how coppers are always exempted from laws regarding "unsafe" guns? I would think that if a gun is such a death trap you would for sure not want the gendarmerie to carry it! If I'm not mistaken citizens in MA cannot purchase new mags that hold over 10 rounds, which S&W certainly produces.

[trapper9260]

Ma is a funny state ,I left there in 1995 and it was getting worst before I left and even more down hill after I left. It is all about money and always been and the east coast of MA is the part that runs the whole state and they do not care about the rest of the state because i know western part of the state always got the raw end of things there and center part around Springfield is where they got some things but not as much as the east coast.Not long ago I was told the H&R had change names when was bought up.I remember going by there when I was going to the Conn. River to do some fishing at times.I was liven and brought up in Southeast MA near the boarder of RI.

[bdicki]

It's true about the mags over 10 rounds.