45 acp 230 grain

[Chickenfarmer]

Does anyone have load data for the 230 gr tumble lube 45 bullet that lee makes... I have blue dot, clay dot and trail boss for powders

[Sweetpea]

I assume you are meaning the truncated cone version?

The Lyman cast bullet handbook has it listed.

[bangerjim]

I shoot the Lee 230gn 2R TL boolit all the time. Lots of load data in the books.

I use TiteGroup, 700X, and other fast powders.

Check your books!

bangerjim

[Chickenfarmer]

I only have 2 books and one has cast loads but doesn't list any of my powders.

[Chickenfarmer]

Can you guys list a load with blue dot , trail boss or clay dot.

[Artful]

Search function is your friend

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?205452-Cast-45-ACP-load-data-!
230 GR. LRN Trail Boss .452" 1.200" 3.5 658 11,200 CUP max 4.5 761 15,100 CUP
230 GR. LRN Clays .452" 1.200" 3.5 716 13,700 CUP max 4.0 793 16,800 CUP

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?74375-Clays-in-the-45-ACP


3.9 - 4.1 grains of Clays ...
You probably already know this, but do be aware that there are 3 different "Clays" powders.
There's "Universal Clays", "International Clays", and just plain old "Clays".
and they all load differently

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/6faed414-e792-4b11-8fac-ab52e4bf6028_zps0d50f8c6.jpg

[Terry37932]

I've got about 40lbs of lead bullets dropped from a Lee TL-452-230-2R mold. They usually throw anywhere from 236 to 242grns depending on what mix of lead your using, I load both 45ACP and 45LC. I use Bullseye, 700X, or Unique, never had any issues, but than again I just shoot for the enjoyment of it. I'm not trying to knock a dime off the target at 25yrds. I'm by no means an expert at reloading.

[bangerjim]

Go out and buy the Lyman Cast Bullet book that Artful shows the page from above!!!!!

Excellent listing of weights and tons of powders. If you can't find your powder in those listing, you really have a problem!

The best book for us casters. Most of us do not care about FMJ loads that all the other books have tons of.

bangerjim

[Chickenfarmer]

I'll go buy it today...just bought my first 1911 a sig one

[John Boy]

Does anyone have load data for the 230 gr tumble lube 45 bullet that lee makes...
If you have Lee Dies, just unfold the paper in the die case and you have plenty loading data for the bullet
They also do a super job with their reloading manual - An Excellent Reference in Your Library ... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/639649/lee-modern-reloading-2nd-edition-revised-reloading-manual

[Bloodman14]

4.5 grs. of Red Dot and Titegroup is all I've used. I have some Clays that I will try when I have time.

[Tackleberry41]

Doubt you will get great results using Blue dot in the 45 with cast. They will work, I just remember alot of unburned powder using it in a 45 colt with cast. And you will also use alot of it, vs other powders. Trailboss generally is at the bottom of the chart when it comes to velocity, I have used it in other things, would it even cycle a gun? Clays should give decent results, but might want to look around for something that would give better results. I have been using Shilouette in my cast 45 230gr.

[Blammer]

clays start load of 3.5 max of 4.0

trial boss start load of 3.5 max of 4.5

this is from Hodgdon website

bluedot 7.5 to 10.5 according to my lyman manual.

I love bluedot in my 45 acp, forget the charge at the moment.

[Blammer]

why is the unique blotted out?

[Animal]

I don't know anything about Clay Dot (there are so many Clay powders out there, it gets confusing). Blue Dot is an excellent powder for my magnum rounds, I haven't attempted to load it for my 1911... I just don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling with Blue Dot in the .45acp, I save it for my .357mag and .44mag. Trail Boss is a powder I have, and would like to try in my 1911, I just haven't yet. I wouldn't expect much more than a "mouse fart" load with it, but it looks like it should be a good powder for a practice round if it will reliably cycle.

If you choose to try the Trail Boss, I'll be curious to how it worked out.

[Bullwolf]

why is the unique blotted out?

I wondered about that as well. It bugged me enough that I had to go look in my Lyman Cast handbook 4th Edition.

Looking at the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition on page #278

With Alliant Unique, it shows a MAXIMUM of 7.3 grains with a Lyman 452374 and an OAL of 1.272. The test pistol (not pictured) is listed as a Universal receiver with a 5" barrel.

That's a bit higher than I like to go with Unique for most of my 45 ACP applications. I also require a somewhat shorter OAL closer to 1.25 - 1.26 to get a cartridge to pass a plunk test in either my Colt or my Springfield 1911 barrel.

That Lyman 4th Edition Cast load seems a tad high compared with other referenced data, and was probably only intended only for that specific Lyman boolit, and OAL.

I'm guessing that Artful thought it was a bit high as well (and I agree) and blocked it out to prevent any accidents.

In comparison, Alliant's online reloader's guide suggests a start load of 4.8 grains of Unique and a MAXIMUM of 5.4 grains using a 230 grain Speer LRN and a 1.27 OAL.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

The Lyman 4th Edition cast load could be potentially unsafe if you experienced say mild boolit set back for example. It is warmer than I prefer to go with my 45 ACP loads at any rate, and another good reason why you should always check a few different sources of loading data when getting an idea for your load work up.

I personally load the Lee TL452-230-2R to an OAL 1.265 over 6.0 grains of Unique

I have also used the same 6.0 grains of Unique load with RN plated or jacketed bullets at the same loaded cartridge overall length (1.265 OAL) in my 1911's, and had good results.

I consider 6.5 grains of Unique to be my personal top end MAX with either a jacketed or a cast boolit. Often accuracy deteriorates before I get to that point. It's quite peppy in 45 ACP, and tends to be a tad faster than military hardball loads when shot across a chronograph in my pistols.

I find that things work best (accuracy & no leading) around 6.0 grains of Unique or less for me with a 230 grain cast boolit. That's no powder puff load, and it comes pretty close to duplicating hardball velocity and point of aim.

I know some folks go as high as 7 grains of Unique, but that's pushing things too much for me when I'm simply target shooting. While it may be safe, (Unique is often pretty predictable when you add a few tenths of a grain to a case) again it is higher than I like to load 45 ACP in a 1911.

If I need more velocity in 45 caliber, I use a different platform than the 1911 such as a stout revolver, coupled with a slower burning powder.



- Bullwolf

[ourflat]

I only use Bullseye and load 4.2 gn with my 230 RN PC bullets.

Frank

[TXGunNut]

Which books do you have? Lyman's 4th edition Cast Bullet handbook is among the best. If you can score a 3rd edition, jump on it. If you can score two, I'll buy it from you. If you don't have the Lee manual, buy it. It's cheap. It's good. Just like most everything Lee makes. It talks about a lot of Lee tools, casting and even black powder. Richard Lee is a tireless self-promoter but most of his stuff is quite good.
My go-to fast pistol powder is 231. I've had good luck with Unique in the 45acp but prefer 231. There are probably better powders, it's just a sentimental favorite for me. I have no experience with the powders you list but a fast powder and a good manual will get you in the ball game. Pistol powders are pretty scarce in my neck of the woods but if you have Universal Clays instead of "Clay Dot" you'll be OK.

Welcome to the affliction! Study Uncle Nick's "plunk test" drawings above. Seating depth is critical for the 45acp and no manual (other than Lee's) will come close to giving you the correct COAL.

[35remington]

I've preached here for a very long time that Lyman's data using the 452374 and their top load of Unique is WAY too hot. Glad others agree.

Lyman has listed that load for years, and it should have been revised lower long ago. If they won't do it, concerned individuals will do it for them.

Agree that 6.5 is plenty fast, and 6 grains duplicates standard ball very well with the 230-2R Lee.

[TXGunNut]

I've preached here for a very long time that Lyman's data using the 452374 and their top load of Unique is WAY too hot. Glad others agree.-35remington

I've used a slighty lower charge under a 200 gr CCI "flying ashtray" bullet and it was definitely a max load. Does seem a bit odd to publish (and continue to publish) a load that hot.

[bangerjim]

why is the unique blotted out?


Probably because it is the dirtiest filthiest powder you can burn! It is blacked out in mu book too!!!!!! (by me)

Never use it.

Sorry.......just my experience with it. MUCH better powders out there!!!!!!!

bangerjim

[Chickenfarmer]

Thanks guys... I'm going to try clay dot first then trail boss then blue dot....what about number 7 is that a good powder for 45

[bangerjim]

Which books do you have? Lyman's 4th edition Cast Bullet handbook is among the best. If you can score a 3rd edition, jump on it. If you can score two, I'll buy it from you. If you don't have the Lee manual, buy it. It's cheap. It's good. Just like most everything Lee makes. It talks about a lot of Lee tools, casting and even black powder. Richard Lee is a tireless self-promoter but most of his stuff is quite good.
My go-to fast pistol powder is 231. I've had good luck with Unique in the 45acp but prefer 231. There are probably better powders, it's just a sentimental favorite for me. I have no experience with the powders you list but a fast powder and a good manual will get you in the ball game. Pistol powders are pretty scarce in my neck of the woods but if you have Universal Clays instead of "Clay Dot" you'll be OK.

Welcome to the affliction! Study Uncle Nick's "plunk test" drawings above. Seating depth is critical for the 45acp and no manual (other than Lee's) will come close to giving you the correct COAL.

If you want #3...........just buy a reprint! Readily available. I just ordered one and had it in about 5 days.

www.cornellpubs.com

Good company! Abby is great!

Every book reprint you could possibly ever want.

It has loads Lyman took out of #4 for some reason.


Bangerjim

[Animal]

Thanks guys... I'm going to try clay dot first then trail boss then blue dot....what about number 7 is that a good powder for 45

Don't forget to let me know how the Trail Boss works out! I can't wait to hear about it :Fire:

[frank505]

Gosh, I shoot a Ballisti Cast 230 truncated nose 230 grain slug with seven grains of Unique for thousands of rounds So did Jeff Cooper. All three of my 1911's run just fine with small radius firing pin stops and heavy mainsprings. Includind an aluminum frame Sig with three thousand plus rounds through it. Thats my carry pistol for working in the Absorkee Mountains of northwest Wyoming. My choice, because it HAS to be concealed and a revolver is too big to hide in the summer. This load should run at 19000 psi, maybe this winter I'll run through the ballistic lab with state of the art equipment and prove this load again.

[Bullwolf]

Probably because it is the dirtiest filthiest powder you can burn! It is blacked out in mu book too!!!!!! (by me)

Never use it.

Sorry.......just my experience with it. MUCH better powders out there!!!!!!!
bangerjim

If you load most modern pistol powders at lower pressure levels, you get unburnt powder and more residue. Unique is not special when it comes to this. Where Unique is special is in how many different applications it fits, and fits well. When you load Unique at higher pressure levels, it burns cleaner.

No surprise there as Unique a very old and popular powder that has withstood the test of time. Many new so called cleaner burning powders perform this exact same way.

Try reducing the charge of your favorite "clean" burning powder with a similar burning rate and note the results for yourself.

I hear this occasionally about Bullseye as well (a fast economical burning powder) however I have yet to find another powder that beats Bullseye for performance at the target or economy, although Promo comes close. I can live with cleaning my guns and washing my hands for this level of performance.

Not to restrict this to Alliant powders, I'll use another example here Winchester 231 Powder. I had a supervisor while I worked for a cartridge reloading company that was in love with W231. He liked the powder so much that we used it instead of almost any other powder selection. We had a full powder magazine, but 99% of what we loaded he made sure that only Winchester 231 was used to exclusion. Now there is nothing wrong with Win 231, it's a good powder across a wide range of pistol cartridges, but when you load light target cartridges using it, it can be dirtier and leave more residue.

As you up the pressure and charges Win 231 will clean up nicely. I would see filthy light 38 Special loads using Win 231, dirty enough that they occasionally tied up rental revolvers that were rarely ever cleaned. Win 231 cleaned right up in target 357 and 44 magnum loads, and other moderate pressure applications. I still use Winchester 231 and do not blame the powder for being dirty when light loaded, it is a useful powder in many cartridges. The fault lies in loading W231 using light for caliber bullets and with light charges, and not the powder.

You can take one of the fastest powders like Red Dot, and download it low enough that it will leave unburnt powder flakes and more residue in light 12 gauge loads. Up the powder charges and it will clean right up.

I can, and have done the exact same thing while shooting trap with Red Dot and Unique, but it takes more powder, and higher pressures before Unique cleans up, but then again it should as Unique is a slower burning powder than Red Dot. I can also get more velocity from Unique than Red dot at lower pressure levels, that's just how it all works.

Grain for grain it is cheaper for me to use a fast powder like Red Dot for lighter loads. Unique however gives me a safer higher window for higher velocity loads than Red Dot, and a slower powder still like Blue Dot will give higher velocities at lower pressures. Each of these powders has a specific range where they perform optimally.

One of the reasons that Unique is so special is that it performs well across such a wide range from light to medium to high, in so many different platforms like pistols or rifles.

It may be dirty at the bottom end, really starts to shine in the middle, and is still darn serviceable at the top. Unique is not position or temperature sensitive, it's not known to pressure spike, nor is it a powder with a very short operable window of range where it will perform safely. This might help explain why Unique is such a popular powder with so many. Unique works well in so many different applications. Even in applications that it's not optimal in, Unique is still a viable selection. In today's times of poor powder availability, it's even more desirable. It's very predictable to work up a load with, and the results are often quite accurate as well.

If you shoot low pressure loads, simply stick with faster burning powders. It may very well be how you are using Unique, and not the powder that's causing your issues.

Marketing is big in every industry, and the newest crop of shooters is big on buzzwords like cleaner burning powders. Even Unique has been hit with the new cleaner burning formulation advertised in recent years. Having used a wide variety of the modern supposedly "cleaner" burning powders available, I fail to see much of a difference, except to my wallet. I still clean my guns and wash my hands when I am through shooting, and I don't live in a bubble.

I learned from an early age that you might get dirty shooting guns and while doing gun related activities, so I don't wear my Sunday go to meeting clothes to the range.

All that being said, use whatever powder you like. Myself and many others will be quite happy to find all of the so called dirty Unique out there that you're not using.




- Bullwolf

[Chickenfarmer]

My best guess says with trail boss and the 230 gr tumble lube it's going to really smokey...

[Artful]

Any grease based lube will smoke - sorry to tell ya.

Sounds like Chickenfarmer may be visiting Harbor Freight, Airgun emporium and Goodwill and learning about powder coating
- http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?240500-a-trick-for-tumble-powder-coating

[Bullwolf]

Bangerjim,I have noticed you are quite fond of using Tightgroup powder from many of your posts. Pardon the mess as I am still not quite familiar with how the multi-quote function works.


PC your boolits and all that will go away!
I use TG as my standard powder on all cals and do not have ANY leading.........ever.
bangerjim

I cannot find Unique. I have lots of TG ( and others).
There are some cal's that U is listed but TG is not. I built a little spreadsheet and grabbed data from Lyman CB book using known starting loads for the two powders as an example: Question is, can one use that ratio of ~1.3 as a good starting point for pistol loads that do NOT have TG data but do have U? I know this does not take into account CUP or other factors, but the load data for most pistol powders seems to be within a grain or so of each other anyway. In no way am I proposing anyone use this simple mathematical solution for MAX loads! I am sure there are others out there that are pondering the same questions, what with the extreme regional scarcity of certain powders on the shelves.
Looking for a little input from those wiser than I in the venue of powder loads.
bangerjim

No. Follow the manufacturers load data. You can already see by your chart that the ratios are not consistent. There is plenty of data out there for Titegroup, use that.


TG is listed almost EVERY category of cal and slug! I consider it a universal powder for all the cal's I use. I have a good supply of it and really like it. And it is cleaner than Unique, which seem to be everybody's favorite powder for some reason! Again, with most powders, light loads will lead to more dirt. That is a given.
banger

TightGroup, BE, Clays..........anything but WST. Unless that is all you have. Then shoot it! I have WST and it seems very dirty compared to most others. It must be what they use in their whitebox ammo! Dirty. But...............we have to use what we have in today's shortage of good powders.
Load 'em.............and let 'em rip!
banger

If you look at all the load data out there, TightGroup seems to be universal....even more than Unique. And it seems to be somewhat cleaner. I have found Unique to be very dirty, even at full loads. Every cal I load (5 of 'em) has published TG data for all the weights I cast. And I found 8# at a smookin deal. I have several other powders in the stores and will gradually use them up like runfiverun is doing. But today...............burn anything you can get yer hands on!
banger

Please do not take my posts about Unique or this one about Tightgroup as any kind of attack. I agree with many of the things you have said, especially about using whatever powders you can find in today's buyers market of powder availability. Heck I have even recently used Hodgdon's new Copper Fouler Eraser powder with cast boolits, and a few other unlikely powder selections lately due to shortages myself.

I'm simply trying to explain that some powders work better in their optimal range, and suggest that perhaps you did not find that range with your limited spread of caliber selection while you were working up you loads using Unique.

Let me make another comparison for you. I'm going to use Tightgroup here, since you mentioned that you like to load it in just about everything that you use. I've used Tightgroup before myself and noticed that my guns ran much hotter wile using it, especially when shooting quickly. I never had any problems with Tightgroup, but the narrow operating range, and how warm my firearms got caused me to eventually quit using this powder. Even though I stopped using Tightgroup in my pistols, if I actually managed to find any on the shelf today, I would still buy a few lbs of it.

Tightgroup is a very popular powder, and yet it is also surrounded by much controversy.

1. Tightgroup is known to be hot burning powder.
There are still some out there who will not use this powder because it gets their firearms to hot. There are rumors of top strap cutting, forcing cone erosion, and other problems associated with this powder as well. My personal favorite was hearing that it runs to hot to effectively work with cast boolits. (Seriously Google it, I don't make this stuff up) Some even have gone so far as to say online that it gets hot enough to melt poly and moly coated boolits. We know this is not possible for the brief time a boolit is in a barrel, but it's still out there none the less.

2. Tightgroup can give unpredictable pressure spikes, and functions in a narrow operating window.
Lets look at the data we originally were referencing before all the thread drift about dirty powder.

Page #278 of the Lyman 4th Edition cast shows a very narrow range for the Lyman 452374 using Tight Group as a propellent.

Start 4.5 grains of Tightgroup = 735 FPS at 11,200 C.U.P.
MAX 5.1 grains of Tightgroup = 841 FPS at 16,100 C.U.P.

That's only a .6 TENTHS of a grain range from a Start to Max Load using Tightgroup.

I would be extremely careful if I was using dippers with this powder and this load. I would also not recommend a new loader just starting out using Tightgroup as the margin for error is quite small.

Many other powders work well in a narrow range, and also fall into this category. Tightgroup is still a pretty fast burning powder at #14 on the Hogdgon burn rate chart just a bit under Red Dot, and right next to Bullseye. This means you can use a lesser charge of Tightgroup than slower burning powder, making it a economical powder. Using less grains per charge = more loads per lb of powder. That's not a bad thing.

3. Tightgroup can burn very dirty in some situations, especially when downloaded.
Tightgroup burns quite hot, and yet it can still be dirty. It has also been known to stain brass. Many have reported burned looking areas on the side of their brass when using tightgroup. IDPA shooters report their arms covered with flakes of unburnt powder after a long shooting string, and yet, this powder is still a popular economical IDPA powder to reach major with in a few calibers despite all the negative press.

4. Tightgroup has a fast snappy and somewhat abrupt felt recoil impulse.
As the burn rate of a powder selection gets slower, the felt recoil impulse transfers from a sharp quick snap to more of a brisk fast push. Titegroup is pretty fast and can send a quick enough impulse that felt recoil feels increased or feels stronger. Some shooters may be more sensitive or simply aware of this behavior than other shooters.

5. Tightgroup has been reported to cause key holing and damage the base of boolits.
There is nothing gentle about Tightgroup. It is more of a kick in the seat powder than a gentle push kind of powder.If your boolit fit and design are prone to gas leaks and flame cutting, Tightgroup will likely find the passage of least resistance and leak past the boolit causing gas cutting and leading. In some situations as well as poor accuracy may result due to boolit base damage. Often times simply changing to a slower burning powder can eliminate the keyholing and leading caused by use Tightgroup.

6. Tightgroup can discolor, or even melt some types of plastic powder measures.
This one's a no brainer, especially if you have a clear powder measure. Do not store powder in your measure for long lenghts of time. It's a sloppy reloading practise, and some powders will etch or even melt your hopper when stored this way. I have heard Bullseye can do this as well, but I have not experienced it in a Dillon or a RCBS Chargemaster or Uniflow measure. I have never left either powder in the measure longer than the duration of a reloading session.

Despite Tightgroups popularity and controversy, it is still used by many in the shooting sports especially to make major powerfactor in IDPA with certain calibers. I encourage folks to do a little searching for themselves about its reputation so it doesn't appear that I am mudslinging here.

Some more opinions about Tightgroup from the Brian Enos forums
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=134972

The Tightgroup Burn (burn marks on the brass)
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-505565.html&&

Do not leave Tightgroup in your powder measure.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-418662.html

Tightgroup keyholes using cast boolits
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-711257.html

An assortment of negative Tightgroup quotes pulled off of the web:



Chism - I started to reload 200gr. LRN using 4.8 grns of Tightgroup which according to my manual is the starting charge. But what I notice is that compared to the WST I was using, I get a stronger recoil from the Tightgroup.

Noisewaterphd - Titegroup has always felt a little 'snappy' to me compared to other powders, and I swear it melts the base and causes more leading. (Some call me crazy, some agree completely).

Red Ryder - Am I the only reloader that thinks Titegroup sucks. It's cheap...but that's all it has going for itself. It's dirty, especially at lower power factors. It doesn't fill the case up very much at all (I think this is a safety issue). It is very "snappy" with increased felt recoil. In my personal testing, I had to load it to almost 140 PF to get decent accuracy from it.

Otto - I don't care for it...burns too hot, stains the brass, excessive recoil and was less accurate in my 1911s.

SLM - I burnt a pound when I shot Production and like you found it to be quite dirty and it put a bunch of heat in the gun. I got it to minor PF under 147's without issue as long as I used jacketed bullets. I couldn't get it to work with lead or moly coated. They would tumble.

Skydiver - You are right on the money about the gun being "hot" after a fast 32 round stage ... I found TiteGroup much too snappy for .40 180gn bullets. Also snappy for .45 200gn bullets

blaster113 - I'm another one thats underwhelmed by Titegroup. I tried a little of it in 9mm minor with 124 grain bullets and found that it had more recoil than my other powders on hand. I've used alot of it for .40 major and didnt care for it at all. For the same PF as N320 it kicks much harder, makes the gun get hot real quick and is dirty.

mlmiller1 - I tried it repeatedly & never got any results that I liked, either. I moved on & sold what I had left.

59Bassman - I like it in 9mm ... However, out of my 1911 in .45ACP, I've fallen out of love with it. I used to shoot WST, then switched to TG under a 200 LSWC. Everything was fine until I had to shoot a long array on a stage with no wind. By the 10th shot, I couldn't see the targets anymore. I'll be looking for another powder in .45

shred - I've also found it to run very hot in most loads.

CZinSC - Another former Tightgroup user here ... My analogy I give people is this: (shooting 124 FMJ) TG is like catching a baseball in a glove straight on the palm. N320 is like catching the ball in the webbing. Both do the job, but N320 feels a lot better.

gm iprod - Dirty, but it is just a carbon / soot fouling that comes away easy enough. Hot, yep, that is true, but no nasty hot, just hotter than many like.

RePete - I don't like TG in .40S&W and .45ACP with lead bullets. IMO it burns too hot and melts the bullet base creating more leading in the barrel.

CocoBolo - TiteGroup don't suck, just because it is violent, nasty dirty, overheats your gun, smokes like burning the sugar cane in mexico, well maybe you right. I tried it I quit it, there are lots of better alternatives.

Miker - I didnt like it last time I tried lead bullets as it produced alot of smoke compared to jacketed bullets

DoubleA - I like TG alright. The accuracy is good, not too dirty in the gun, but I do end up with flakes all over my arms after I have shot 200 rnds or so. The recoil is sharp and snappy

Joe4d - WST isnt bad, but its gonna smoke. I shot cast over WST and tightgroup for years and never knew smoke was a problem, I was perfectly happy chugging along, Then I started reading all these smoke threads and got all concerned with it.

I am reminded of the preacher and the Eskimo story.
The preacher told the Eskimo all about Jesus and that he wouldnt go to heaven unless he accepted Jesus,
"So all my ancestors are in hell because they didnt believe?"
"No", said the preacher, "They get a by because they didnt know any better and had never heard of Jesus"
Eskimo, "Oh so then why did you tell me?"

Pick a powder thats cooler and slower than tightgroup and shoot, its gonna smoke some but dont worry about it.
Leading comes from undersized bullets, again all of them will lead some.


So it seems that even Tightgroup your favorite powder used to exclusion, can also burn somewhat dirty when loaded at the bottom of its range. Yet whenever someone mentions Tightgroup the next posted reply is not "it's a filthy dirty powder don't ever use it". Many folks seem to enjoy getting on the bash Unique for being a dirty powder bandwagon as soon as it's mentioned. All powders can be dirty under the right conditions, some even more so than others.

Alliant 2400 is another very popular powder, which is occasionally reported to burn dirty. When I loaded it to subsonic levels in the 50 Action Express, it left unburnt powder flakes in my barrel and all over the towel placed on the bench. There is even data for 38 special loads using A2400, but unless I was using really heavy projectiles, 2400 would not be my first choice for the caliber. I would also expect quite a bit of soot and unburnt powder from such a load combination, yet it really starts to shine in the .357 magnum with cast boolits.

For a mild load I like to load 10 grains of Unique and a 240 grain cast boolit in 44 magnum. When I load A2400 with heavier boolits in the 44 magnum I get good accuracy, higher velocities, and low SD's along with no leading. A2400 also burns much cleaner in these higher pressure applications. A2400 works very well for me in .30 carbine as well, with both cast and jacketed boolits. Others have reported it working well with cast boolits in .223, 7.62X39 and 30/40 Krag.

I don't condemn A2400 because I downloaded it in 50 AE and it was dirty. Part of what makes A2400 such a great powder selection in so many calibers is that you can download it, and it's safe and very predictable to do so when you start adding or subtracting grains of powder. It is also very versatile across a wide range of calibers like magnum pistol, and even some cast rifle applications... Kind of like Unique.

Someone who loads and shoots mostly 38 Super is bound to have a completely different opinion of powders like Unique, Tightgroup and A2400 than someone who's preferred caliber to shoot is say 38 Special.

As I said previously, of course use whatever powder you like. I just fail to understand the bad rep Unique gets for being dirty, and the condemnation of the use of this powder. I have found it's performance to be quite impressive across a wide variety of calibers but then perhaps I'm just odd. I actually prefer the smell of burnt Bullseye, Unique and Alox, they bring back pleasant memories of the 4th of July and fireworks for me.



- Bullwolf

[Chickenfarmer]

I have one more stupid question what's better large primer brass or small or no difference.. Sorry for all these questions not new to guns or reloading or casting but just bought my first 1911 a sig

[Artful]

I have one more stupid question what's better large primer brass or small or no difference.. Sorry for all these questions not new to guns or reloading or casting but just bought my first 1911 a sig

I like Large primer - in theory either should work just fine but if you have a mix of brass you have to sort it before putting it thru your press/priming station - PITA - I already went thru this in the old days with 38 spl brass in large and small variety.

[Chickenfarmer]

The vast majority of it is still large primer right?

[Chickenfarmer]

I've heard rumors that the sig 1912 has a hard time cycling cast

[Artful]

The vast majority of it is still large primer right?
as far as I am aware - yes


I've heard rumors that the sig 1912 has a hard time cycling cast
you mean 1911?
a search on http://sigforum.com didn't turn up anything - where are you finding these rumors?

[hanleyfan]

Those wanting to know about trial boss and 45acp, I have been using trial boss for a while now with good results, using 4.5gr. with a 230gr. bullet. it cycles good and is accurate pushing around 800 fps.

[Chickenfarmer]

Just got back from testing the 230 grain lead... The load of blue dot kicked a little hard for plinking the trail boss had the perfect about of recoil for a plinking load... Thanks to all of you for the help you've provided me with this caliber that is new to me.

[Artful]

Hey, your welcome - now show us a pic of the finished product of all your efforts.

[Chickenfarmer]

I will after I go make some more. I only made a few just in case I messed up I wouldn't have to pull to many

[John Boy]

The vast majority of it is still large primer right? As Artful said - Yes
The 45 ACP brass with small primers are head stamped NT (Non Toxic) Many more indoor ranges are now requiring them because of the Lead styphnate in the primers to meet the EPA laws of various States