Loads and Pressure for 35 Whelen

[ColColt]

Last night I was pouring over the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook to see when was listed for the 35 Whelen. Lyman has their 204 gr bullet listed with six different powders. What caught my eye was their listing for IMR 3031. A start charge of 50 gr and a max of58.5 gr. That's seems to me an awful lot in light of the charge weights of the other powders to include IMR 4198 that has a start of 30 gr and max 37.5 gr. Moreover, the velocity variation was quite extensive. The max velocity for the 4198 with this bullet was 2097 fps whereby the minimum velocity with the start charge of 3031 was already way more at 2558 fps. Something seems wrong there to me. I've read RL15 is a good powder but Lyman has no loads listed with that powder.

The Lyman manual is the only source of info I have involving cast loads for this caliber. I don't see any 225 or 250 gr bullets even listed. Hodgdon use to, on their online data source, have loads for lead boolits but not anymore it seems. The information I was looking for involved heavier bullets, such as the 210-250 gr boolits and the associated pressures with a given load as to choose which alloys would be better to obturate the boolit at a listed velocity/pressure. Anyone know of a more concise source other than Lyman's?

[swheeler]

I would use an older IMR reloaders guide as reference, their data is for jacketed bullets, and shows max load(only) and pressure.

35 whelen,rem case, rem 9 1/2 pr, rem 200 gr psp- 24 inch barrel- 3.075"c.o.l.

IMR 4198- 46.0 gr-2595 fps- 51.9k cup
IMR 3031-55.0 compressed-2650 fps-49k cup

same-250 gr Hornady RN-3.240" COL

IMR 4198-43.0-2295 fps-50k cup
IMR 3031-53.0 compressed-2480 fps-51.8k cup

[ColColt]

I didn't mention it but looking primarily at slower velocity...something like 1800-2200fps. These bullets won't be for hunting per se just paper punchin'/fun loads with the RCBS 35-200 mould(or equivalent) and/or a 230 gr mould like Accurate Mould's 35-230D. I'm wondering if RL15 would be a good powder for those boolits but no info to back it up.

I have several manuals(about 6-7) that give plenty of data for jacketed but zero cast other than the mentioned Lyman and for the Whelen it's all but useless. it's all but useless for bullets over 200 gr and not many powders I have that they have listed.

[swheeler]

I didn't mention it but looking primarily at slower velocity...something like 1800-2200fps. These bullets won't be for hunting per se just paper punchin'/fun loads with the RCBS 35-200 mould(or equivalent) and/or a 230 gr mould like Accurate Mould's 35-230D. I'm wondering if RL15 would be a good powder for those boolits but no info to back it up.

I have several manuals(about 6-7) that give plenty of data for jacketed but zero cast other than the mentioned Lyman and for the Whelen it's all but useless. it's all but useless for bullets over 200 gr and not many powders I have that they have listed.

358315, 204 gr, #2 alloy
IMR 4198-38.0 gr-2230 fps- 25.8k cup Lyman 47

[swheeler]

Lyman 49th

358315-IMR 4198 30.0=1666 @ 22.4k, 37.5=2097@31.2k

[ColColt]

Any ideas where I could locate data for heavier bullets? I have the Lyman but it only shows their 204 gr boolit. I suppose you could just reduce the load 10% for the 225-230 gr ones. It would have been good had they included more powder choices.

[357maximum]

The 35 WHELEN is easy to get along with and does not require cast specific data (nothing really does).......you can use j-word data as your start point....if you use j-word data you will get (normally) slightly less pressure and slightly more speed.....but that is one of them GENERAL RULES.


My favorite powder for the 35WHELEN is H414 , but the 4350's, H-Hybrid100V are also good in them with a 225grain castboolit.


My favorite recipe for general range bummin/deer killin/250-300 yard steel wackin fodder in my 1/14 twist 24inch Mauser98 sporter:

BRP's 225 grain "clone" of the RCBS boolit that actually weighs about 226 grains made of waterdropped 50COWW/50PURE+5% railroad babbit.

52.1 grains H414

CCI 250 Primer

That load does 2460 from my gun with my current lot of H414 with 1-1.25 MOA from MY GUN. I have taken that load to 2700fps accurately by simply bumping the charge.....that higher loading was accurate, but it was bit more than I needed to kill deer...it killed em a bit too dead.....I would not hesitate to kill an elk with either speed load however.

For accurate range play IMR4064 (data on Hodgdons website) is also a fine powder for the 200-225 grain BOOLITS.



DO NOT USE REL15 WITH anything that resembles a REDUCED LOAD IN THE WHELEN with cast...TRUST ME....IT CAN GET SPOOKY......I.E CLICK.......wait for it........BOOOM ........SPOOKY.

[ColColt]

I've got nearly everything imaginable in the house but H414...H380, but no cigar. Current plans are to get Tom to make me a 2-cavity mould with the 36-210B and 36-230D bullet...that's approx. a 210 gr bullet coupled with a 230 gr just for grins. Both use GC's.

[Larry Gibson]

ColColt

Assuming your 35 Whelen has the usual 14 or 16" twist then most starting jacketed loads can be used with appropriate powders with cast bullets.

As 357maximum says any of the 4350s are excellent in that cartridge with 220+ gr weight cast. RL19 and H4831SC are also good. I favor 4895 with the RCBS 35-200-FN and 2400 - 2500 fps+ with very good hunting accuracy can be achieved. That makes an excellent hunting load BTW. I never could get any real decent accuracy with Lyman's 358315 at much over 1800 fps in any 35 cal rifle.

Larry Gibson

[ColColt]

Thanks for the information. I have a smorgasbord of powder types, all of the above plus, I just wasn't sure about the load data due to little I have on hand for this caliber using cast. A fellow on another forum was nice enough to send me 50 of the ones from the RCBS mould I'll no doubt try first followed by the one's I'm going to get Tom to make. This is my first Whelen and know zilch about it, unlike other calibers. So, any info is most appreciated.

[357maximum]

I never could get any real decent accuracy with Lyman's 358315 at much over 1800 fps in any 35 cal rifle.

Larry Gibson


Do not feel lonely there Larry. The 358315 and the 358318 both share the same issues......... They are both perfect examples of a good idea poorly executed. Both designs make great paperpatched boolits if nothing more than for acedemic reasons however.


:lol:

[Larry Gibson]

"paperpatched boolits"


Answer to a question that shouldn't have been asked[smilie=l:

Larry Gibson

[357maximum]

......or,,,,,,,,,,every solution needs to find a problem for it to justify it's existence.

[swheeler]

Get some 4320 and forget about it:)

[swheeler]

Colt I wouldn't worry about RL15 in reduced loads if you use a filler, my choice would be dacron. I don't believe its any different than any double base powder, extruded or ball, especially at reduced loadings) RL 15 was my powder of choice for 35 Whelen, 375 H&H and 308 for many years-90- 2000. RL15 gave the highest velocity I ever achieved in 375 H&H with 270 Hornady, 2700+ in 23 inch barrel, I will add reduced loads weren't my game at that time in my life;) ifin you got some try it at start load`+c what u get, I don't want to tell Mike hes full of ****e, but I smell somethin:)

[ColColt]

I had bought a pound of RL19 to try in another caliber and after reading here and there about it with the Whelen I thought it might be good to try. I'm not much into reduced loads, especially with fillers, and had rather use a powder than will fill the case more. I do have a pound or so of RL15 as well primarily for the 22-250 and .243.

[357maximum]

I don't want to tell Mike hes full of ****e, but I smell somethin:)


Scott...I honestly believe that day was the closest I have ever come to the famous deflagranation detonation thingy....I am rather light in skin color to begin with and I lost a few extra shades that day.......DO NOT GO BELOW BOOK...that's all I was saying as it CAAN BE some rather scary territory......it's your gun, and your body parts...do as you may...I will not see the mushroom cloud from here.

[Loudenboomer]

ColColt If you're going to have Tom do a 2 profile mold consider a heavy weight in the mix. I've mentioned it before but I'm Having way too much fun with Accurate molds 36-275E. This boolit also shoots well With H-414. Mostly I use a case full of WCC 860 (I HAVE ALOT OF IT) . It does need a Fed 215 primer or I'll use a 4198 kicker. My tightest groups to date are with AA2230. It's my hunting powder of choice under an air cooled COWW 36-275E with a small HP drilled.

[Tatume]

The Hodgdon web page lists your starting load of IMR3031 for a 200 grain jacketed bullet, but doesn't go as high as the max load you listed. Speeds run from 2467 to 2711. Those seem like awfully fast loadings for cast bullets.

H4895 is an ideal powder for cast bullet rifle loads. It can be loaded to just about any reasonable cast bullet speed, using the Hodgdon 60% rule:

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

I have had outstanding results using H4895 (and IMR4895) with cast bullets in the range of 1400 - 2250 fps.

Take care, Tom

[ColColt]

I am going to have him make the mould with the 36-210B and 36-230D. That's probably as heavy as I'll go. Well, that's not in stone yet as I may go up to his 36-245S as the second cavity.

[ColColt]

Tatume-That link doesn't work. All I got was a "www" in the address tab.

I guess I still feel in the dark a little with where to start/stop with powders like RL15 and 4064. Start loads for a 200 gr bullet in Horndady's manual suggest 54-57.8 gr max. Speer list the 220 gr bullet and RL15 at a start of 56-60 gr max. With 4064 and that same bullet their start is 52 gr and max 56 gr. How close can you get to maximum with cast loads using this data?

[robroy]

In a Whelen with a 14 or 16 twist I think you can get prerry darn near max. I haven't tried it yet but I'm on the way there

[ColColt]

I settled on the 36-210B and 36-245S from Tom and got the mould delivered while I was still in the hospital. I still can't stand long enough to do any casting but hopefully not much longer. I'm looking at 56 gr of RL-15 for the 210 gr bullet and about 50 gr for the 245 gr. Both use GC's. If this is too much/little please, someone chime in.