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View Full Version : Anybody here shoot a 1863 Remington "Zoli" brand "Zouave" 58 cal rifled musket?



bedbugbilly
06-28-2014, 03:45 PM
Long story short - I have a repro Zouave that I purchased back in the early 1960's - I shot it when I was in NSSA and over they years, I've put thousands of rounds through it. I have shot BP for 50+ years. A few years ago, I pretty much sold my long gun collection off. I kept this one as it has a special meaning to me. Now, I'd like to shoot it again - nothing serious - mainly plinking and such. I have the Ideal HB Minie Ball mold that I used for many years and just picked up a Ideal HB SWC mold.

So . . . the barrel on mine is getting pretty well worn bore wise. (Way too much clearance for the minie balls) and I have problems with key-holing. I want to "re-barrel" this rifle. Here are my alternatives . . . .

Whitacre (sp?) shows $250 for a "re-line" and $350 for a new barrel + cost of sights + installation.

Dixie GW shows a replacement barrel at $275 which has the sights/finish/breech plug. I believe they are Zoli barrels.
For the shooting that I want to do and for a drop in barrel (I'll hang on to the original) this seems to be the most economical way to go. I'm not going to do a lot of shooting but I still want it to be accurate.

I have now experience witht he Zoli reproductions. If anyone has one and shoots it, could you advise on your thoughts on the quality of the barrel? I.E. does it shoot decent and are you satisfied with the accuracy you can get with it. I'm not talking about "driving tacks" but I would like to be able to hit a hanging clay pigeon at 50 yards, nail pop cans and novelty targets. On my shooting area I have here on the farm, I normally shoot 25 and 50 yards.

Any info on the Zoli barrels would be greatly appreciated. I'm not comparing a "Whitacre job" to a production Zoli in terms of quality, I just don't want to waste money on a complete Zoli barrel to drop in if other folk's experiences are not good with them.

The history of my rifle is this - just to show a little nostalgia. :-) When I was a kid, my Dad and I made friends with an old gunsmith (in the early 60s) who was in his eighties at the time. He owned a small gun shop and he taught me how to shoot ML rifles. He had this Zouave on his rack with the whopping price of $65.00 on it. Every time I went in, I drooled over it and he knew I wanted it. He would hand it to me and I would just be on cloud nine it felt so good. The next time I went in, I was disappointed as it had a "sold" tag on it. He saw me looking at it and told me not to worry, it really wasn't sold . . he said he was "holding" it for me. I worked all summer mowing lawns (we're talking 50 cents an hour) and saved my money up. I had saved up around $50 or so and my Dad knew how much I had in the jar. We went over to the gun shop one day as Dad said he needed some shotgun shells. When we got there, the old man smiled when we walked in and he told me to follow him in to the back. When we got to his work area, he picked up the Zouave off of his bench and handed it to me with a big smile on his face . . . then smiled and told me it was mine to take home. My Dad handed him a check and told me that he knew how much money I'd saved and that he was kicking in the rest of it. That was my first ML rifle and every time I shot it or looked at it, I remember the old gun smith and my Dad. The old gunsmith threw in a pound of 2F, a tin of musket caps and 50 minie balls.

I'm older now than my Dad was when I got the rifle - in fact, my Dad would have been 106 yesterday. He's gone now but I still think of him . . . so many fond memories and he always encouraged my interest in ML shooting even though he had no interest.

bob208
06-28-2014, 05:26 PM
zoli barrels had the reputation of being the best of the repro barrels.

you mite also check Robert Hoyt about a reline. he is in Fairfield pa.

bedbugbilly
06-28-2014, 06:37 PM
Thank you bob . . appreciate your reply.

I remember Bob Hoyt's barrels from when I was shooting NSSA - the man did fantastic work. I located his contact information and will give him a call.

For the amount that I'd be shooting the barrel, I want to get out as cheap as possible as my NSSA days are over and it wouldn't see that many rounds. The problem with the barrel I have on the Zouave now is not only the bore size/wear but the sights as well. I'd like to have a new rear and front. I have tried getting the rear sight off in the past to replace it - it's put on with a phillips head screw of some description of all things :-) and it's a lost cause without possibly either drilling it out or some other method.

I'd have no problem going with a Whitacre reline but by the time you add in the sight work, I could almost buy a new Zouave repro. I will try and get in touch with Bob Hoyt and check on a re-line but I have a feeling it might be more dollar wise to go with the Zoli barrel (I'm assuming that is what Dixie carries - will have to call and check.) I googled a Zouave replacement barrel and Taylor's site shows them - I will contact them as well and see what they carry.

My rifle is not marked as to mfg. other than a serial number (1492) - easy to remember when you think of Columbus sailing the ocean blue . . . . It has a very nice walnut stock that is comparable to the originals I've seen over the years and great fit. It's a shame it just sits when with barrel work, I could be enjoying it.

Thanks again - greatly appreciated!

fouronesix
06-28-2014, 06:49 PM
I have two repro muskets and a pile of originals. The repros are a Zoli Zouave and an early P-H P53 Enfield.

My original Remington Zouave with 7 groove bore will outshoot my Zoli Zouave. Not by much but it's measurable. Overall I think Zoli makes a fairly good barrel. Zoli probably used their vast experience of shotgun manufacture in making their repro muskets and barrels. The 275.00 barrel seems like a logical choice.

Skirmisher
06-28-2014, 06:54 PM
One advantage to a reline is that you can specify bore size. If you buy a new barrel it's highly likely you'll need a new mould. I've seen Zouaves that require anything from .574 to .581. If you call Bobby Hoyt be prepared to wait for him to answer. When he's in the shop running machinery he can't hear the phone. I highly recommend his work as well as Dan's.

fouronesix
06-28-2014, 07:35 PM
I think this is what bedbugbilly was getting at about relative cost of a replacement barrel-
http://www.lodgewood.com/Unfired-Zoli-1863-Remington-Zouave_p_1714.html

At this price, almost makes sense to retire the old one and get a "new" one.

BPShooter
06-28-2014, 07:51 PM
A replacement barrel may not fit. A reline is your best choice.

slim1836
06-28-2014, 08:24 PM
Would paper patching be an option?

Slim

fouronesix
06-28-2014, 09:48 PM
These things can turn into something like buying a $500 saddle for a $50 horse.

You might call someone like Lodgewood and ask. They refurb and refit all manner of muskets, so might know how interchangeable the various "Zouave" models' parts are. If it is close enough, then not much problem making them fit. Really only the tang and breech geometry could cause major misfit and there can't be that much difference among them.

Yes, if you have a mold that casts a .577 Minié and your bore is .580-1" then even a thin single wrap of paper can make it work. It's exactly what I did with a musket with a .584" bore. I finally got a .584" mold-- problem over. The paper patched Miniés worked fine but were a pain (especially since it's best to swab between shots for ML paper patched) for a gun designed to shoot, without cleaning between shots, "easy to load", as-cast Miniés.

Dan Cash
06-28-2014, 10:28 PM
I had a Zoli Zouave about the same vintage as the OPs. Handsome rifle with a good lock but the barrel was junk, having rings cut in the bore deeper than the rifling every couple inches. A smooth bore would have been more accurate. I chopped it down and made a "Buffalo" gun out of it and sold it to some guy in Las Vegas. No more zoli barrels for me. Install a liner.

Newtire
07-18-2015, 10:42 PM
I now am the proud owner of 2-Zoli Zouaves. First one I bought from GB. It was pretty nice looking and shot well but had a big bore that took a .580" Minie. It is a 3-groove Zoli barrel.

The 2nd one, I traded for on this board and it was a little rougher than the first one but in pretty decent shape. Thought I 'd be smart & screw in a Taurus 62 tang sight like someone suggested. Couldn't hit anything at 50 yds. After a few loads of 75 gr. 2F Black MZ, the stock started getting beat up by the tang so I quit shooting it.

Later at home, I disassembled both rifles & found that the first one had been glass bedded.

Got me a bedding kit & glass bedded the 2nd Zouave. What it had going for it was a tight bore which took even .575 minies. This thing now shoots great with the tang sight. Had to modify the tang sight post to give it room enough to crank over to the right enough to compensate for the front sight being mounted to the right of center.

This barrel is also a Zoli and it shoots 50 yd. groups right there around 2-3" for 3 shots.

Southron
07-19-2015, 04:15 PM
Regarding your rear sight problem, you can get a Rear Sight tool from S & S that will allow you to remove and/or re-install the rear sight screw.

http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=58S219

Baron von Trollwhack
07-20-2015, 11:13 PM
If your barrel has been taken care of so that it is not rusted, pitted, dinged or in need of a significant muzzle recrowning, the best bet is to just buy a new mould of the same or similar bullet length as the bullet that shot well for you all those years. That keeps the original barrel going, and a similar weight and length of bullet is likely to shoot as well as the barrel ever did. Minie' gun accuracy requires a close fitting ball and Zoli rifles typically shot very well.

BvT