The Gunsmith Machinist 1 & 2

[deltaenterprizes]

I just received vol 1 & 2 from Village Press plenty of good info and they have the best price!

[Tom R]

Link please?

[deltaenterprizes]

I don't know how to do that on my phone, Google Village Press

[10x]

Thank you. Been looking for this

[ulav8r]

https://secure.villagepress.com/store/items/list/group/322

[GBertolet]

I have both volumes, purchased directly from the Village Press. They have a lot of good information on many relevant projects with pictures. I find it amazing that the author gets away with using the 3 jaw chuck for so much of his work. He must have a very concentric 3 jaw, to avoid having to setup with a 4 jaw.

[country gent]

A good 3 jaw can be very accurate IF. 1) once mounted on a clean spindle it ground in to true. This usually only removes a few thousandths from the jaws. It trues the jaws to the bed and spindle making for a very true chuck. 2) it isn't over tightened or stressed. A lot of 3 jaws scrolls are sprung from using popes or over tightening the chuck. 4) chucks need to be kept clean of swarf and chips.

In the shop the chuck was marked to the lathe. index marked as to 0 when ground and cleaned and lubed we had D-6 mounts and this was cleaned and chuck mounted. It was then tightened with the marked socket on a ring and the front jaws ground in to just clean up. Jaws were lightly coated with lay out ink. The ring was then moved to the front jaws and the rears ground to clean up + .005 bigger than outer jaws. This kept the jaws in the right alignment.

As long as the above was maintained these chucks ran very close until something was spun in them or other damage done.

[john.k]

Some of the best 3 jaws were made by Charles Taylor, Birmingham ,and of the coned jaw type....I have several made for a crankshaft grinder ,and of very high accuracy and repeatabilty........bought the grinder to get the chucks ,then scrapped the grinder.

[Hdskip]

If I remember Steve often used the three jaw but using a center that he turns each time he uses it.

[elysianfield]

Well..."Gunsmiths" are not necessarily tool and die makers, and most will accept the .003"-.005" run out (if the chuck is in good condition). You can trick a 3 Jaw into near zero run out, but it will not repeat...a 3 jaw is a 3 jaw is a 3 jaw. On my go-to lathe, I have a 10" Buck Accu-Chuck...pretty good chuck and over a grand new. If I am working to very close tolerances, I remove it and use collets, or use a 4 jaw.

[country gent]

In the tool room we had few lathes with 3 jaws on them. With use and practice its only a couple mins to have one running with in .001. My complaint with 4 jaws is the coarse teeth most have on the jaws surfaces.
Where the 3 jaw is best is turning multiple parts where every surface is turned in the one chucking start to finish then parted off. Here a little run out is moot. I did a lot of small work between centers here turning the center point In the chuck from soft steel allowed the part to be held under tension between centers and turned.

[EDG]

The author may not know how to use a 4 jaw very well or he may just be too lazy to use a 4 jaw.

I once worked with an old alcoholic geezer who was too lazy to change chucks.
A 10 inch 3 jaw was too heavy for him and rather than ask for help he did everything with a 4 jaw.
In that shop we also had a variety of Bullard VTLs and other boring mills with swings up to 60 inches.
We were used to dialing in big forged rings and pressure vessel heads so we were really fast.

A 3 jaw is pretty much a solid chunk of steel for the full diameter front and back. Most 4 jaws have open cavities on the back between the jaws so they are much lighter.

There were a few times that I got to run a new LeBlonde 15" lathe. The precision of the new chucks were amazing compared to the old rattling Cushman chuck on the 1923 Pratt and Whitney tool room lathe.

There is one other difference. Often the sequence of the operations and the machining technique when making a new part from scratch permits use of a 3 jaw. You can hold an over length blank on the end and turn the entire thing keeping all diameters concentric. Then you part it off, reverse it and face the back side off.
When you do repair and maintenance you are often working on an existing item that must be dialed in to keep the reworked surfaces concentric with some existing diameter.



I have both volumes, purchased directly from the Village Press. They have a lot of good information on many relevant projects with pictures. I find it amazing that the author gets away with using the 3 jaw chuck for so much of his work. He must have a very concentric 3 jaw, to avoid having to setup with a 4 jaw.

[country gent]

For someone used to using the 4 jaw chuck, changing chucks may take longer than indicating the 4 jaw in.
One of the first "projects" in the schools shop was indicating a 4 jaw in to .001 in 2 minutes. Use one and learn it you will get quick at it. Tramming a mill head in and indicating vises true were some others.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My 6" Buck Chuck for my Hardinge Chucker goes on and off and repeats within a couple of thou every time. It has adjustable jaws that can be tweaked like a 4 jaw to true them to the center line of the spindle.

It is called a Buck Adjust-Tru chuck.

I had 2 of them and sold one for $600 on Ebay!

Not cheap but very good chucks.

I use collets 99% of the time, and the whole point of the chucking lathe is so you can do many operations to a part which will all be concentric and then cut the part off the bar and on to the next one.

Randy

[John 242]

Brownells has both books- $38.99 dealer price. Retail should be around that. SKU- 926-000-002WB and 926-000-003WB. https://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=gunsmith+machinist&ksubmit=y

[John 242]

Well..."Gunsmiths" are not necessarily tool and die makers, and most will accept the .003"-.005" run out ...

Not any gunsmith I know or know of, but I suppose that some do. We shoot for less than .0005 for dialing in a barrel, use a four-jaw and normally don't accept .003 to .005 run out on anything.

[Willbird]

My 6" Buck Chuck for my Hardinge Chucker goes on and off and repeats within a couple of thou every time. It has adjustable jaws that can be tweaked like a 4 jaw to true them to the center line of the spindle.

It is called a Buck Adjust-Tru chuck.

I had 2 of them and sold one for $600 on Ebay!

Not cheap but very good chucks.

I use collets 99% of the time, and the whole point of the chucking lathe is so you can do many operations to a part which will all be concentric and then cut the part off the bar and on to the next one.

Randy

Those are really good chucks, even better is the 6 jaw version. They work out a LOT better for use in the milling machine, one can take out 3 jaws if need be for some reason, or use 4 or 5 jaws. We sometimes left out 1 jaw on the mill to allow indicating a keyway in the part for orientation.

The other way to make a 3 jaw run pretty much dead true is to use soft top jaws that can be bored. Many 3 jaw chucks have 3 places to insert a chuck wrench, one we had on a toolroom lathe had one pinion marked because it ran more truly if you always used the same pinion to tighten it. The scroll inside is what locates the jaws, if there is any slop between scroll and chuck body using the same pinion every time might give a more consistent runout.

Sometimes you do not need .001 runout but minimizing it will allow you to use smaller dia stock to make a part.

I'm leaning towards an ER40 camlock collet chuck for my Grizzly lathe, lots less screwing around than using 5C, nose, and drawbar.

Bill

[rbt5050]

90% of the machine work I do is done with a 3 jaw chuck.

[KCSO]

Steve is a writer for the Home Shop Machinist and machinist Workshop and that is where the articles were originally published. If you read the full instructions you will see he uses a 3 jaw when he can do it to tolerance. He is well versed in the 4 jaw chuck.

Since I had to learn on a 4 jaw and had to be able to dial it in in a minute or less that is what I use almost all the time. The 3 jaw is on a dedicated lathe and never comes off but for cleaning and has been ground in.

[JeepHammer]

Steve is a writer for the Home Shop Machinist and machinist Workshop and that is where the articles were originally published. If you read the full instructions you will see he uses a 3 jaw when he can do it to tolerance. He is well versed in the 4 jaw chuck.

Since I had to learn on a 4 jaw and had to be able to dial it in in a minute or less that is what I use almost all the time. The 3 jaw is on a dedicated lathe and never comes off but for cleaning and has been ground in.

Second what he said.
I've been a machinist & gunsmith for over 40 years.
*IF* everything you do has to be surfaced turned for size, then a 3 jaw saves a little time, but if you aren't turning the outside, 4 jaw is a must to center the work.
And you can forget about getting anything tapered, like a barrel, to center in a 3 jaw and stay in place.

[country gent]

Some lathes chuck mounts are better than others. The Hardringe system is very accurate and repeatable with the longer taper and 1/4 turn locking it. With a dedicated chuck it repeats within .001 and a good chuck ground to the spindle will be very accurate. We had 4 Hardringe lathes in the tool room at work with chucks dedicated to them ( other than the 6 jaw) The draw back to the hardinge mount is it doesn't take fast reversing of the spindle as good. Keeping the chuck clean and in good shape makes a big difference. Another is not to over stress the chuck tightening it, this springs the scroll and makes it loose accuracy