RIA / Armscorp M200 38spl

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I have been seeing these online for a while , heard all sorts of things about them

I got a chance to hold on in a gun store a few weeks back at a store i stopped in the M206 snub nose model even dry fired and the trigger was not bad

well I saved up some green and I have been having a lazy streak lately not wanting to chase brass but still wanting to shoot ,and I was talking my local dealer and asked if he could get me the 4 inch barrel model he looked and said his distributor had 2 did i want one , well sure

it seems like these revolvers are selling all the time , and I see some reviews and videos , but not nearly as much info as the sales seem like there should be.

either way I was curios , could the company who makes a decent 1911 for a decent price make a decent 38 for 230 dollars +tax , well i am going to find out

just wondering while i wait if any of you have any experience with them
it should be in later this week and I will let you know what i find

[bedbugbilly]

I haven't seen or handled one personally in 4" but I have read about them on a couple of threads. For the price, I got the impression that they were decent shooters. Maybe the finish / etc. not quite as good as a more expensive revolver but still a good functioning revolver. I hope you'll post some photos of yours as well as give us a range report after you've tried it out. I have a feeling that you'll end up with a good all around 38.

The indoor range that I shoot at in AZ when I'm there had a couple of the 2" snubs in their display case. I noticed them on the way out one day and was going to take a look at them the next time I went back. When I went back, they were both gone! The snubs I saw looked nice but the finish on them reminded me of a "parkerized" finish? Not having handled them, I don't know for sure but I wouldn't object to that type of finish on a "working / range gun".

I'll be interested to see what you think of it once you get it and shoot it. I have a feeling you'll like it!

[FergusonTO35]

My understanding is that they are loosely based on the late model Colt D frame such as Police Positive and Detective Special and so share the same attributes and flaws as those designs. The low price is accomplished by being made in the Philippines and use of aluminum frames and barrel shrouds. I wouldn't mind to try one sometime, they seem pretty nice for $200.00. Centerfire sometimes has them on sale for $189.95. The only thing I don't like about them is the shrouded barrel. Those shrouds eventually shoot loose or become cockeyed. I would prefer just a solid pencil barrel with exposed ejector.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

My understanding is that they are loosely based on the late model Colt D frame such as Police Positive and Detective Special and so share the same attributes and flaws as those designs. The low price is accomplished by being made in the Philippines and use of aluminum frames and barrel shrouds. I wouldn't mind to try one sometime, they seem pretty nice for $200.00. Centerfire sometimes has them on sale for $189.95. The only thing I don't like about them is the shrouded barrel. Those shrouds eventually shoot loose or become cockeyed. I would prefer just a solid pencil barrel with exposed ejector.

they show an un-shrouded model 202 on their web site but i have never seen one, then again I have never seen a m200 in person either only a M206 snubbie

I went a bit of faith and curiosity ordering the m200

[FergusonTO35]

I've seen the 202 over here a few times. I wouldn't mind getting one.

[Treeman]

Lockwork is Detective Special "2", Frame is steel. Finish is uninspiring. They shoot. A lot of gun for the money.

[Mk42gunner]

I have said for years that we need some decent affordable entry level guns; to fill the niche that Harrington & Richardson and Iver Johnson filled in years gone by. I am going to have to find one of these to actually hold in my hands.

Robert

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

update
picked up the gun friday evening - does that make it a friday night special rather than saturday ?

any way i looked it over the gun comes in a plastic bag in a bubble wrap bag in a MTM pistol case , put one it the value added column for a decent case that can be used not just for this gun but as another case fro range days

the gun comes fairly well drenched in oil in that plastic bag , I took it home , cleaned it and did some dry fire testing both in single and double action

after a few hundred pulls in double action ,the single action pull has no creep it breaks with just a tiny movement , i haven't got a scale but any less and I would move this gun into the too light of a trigger category the manufacturers web site says between 3.5 and 4.5 pounds , I am no trigger snob I am used to factory hunting rifles,as issued military rifles and safe action pistols but I am guessing mine is on the light side of what the factory builds them to and that is plenty light enough for me.

i had picked up one box of American Eagle 38spl cast/swagged lead factory rounds to give it it's initial test, because need brass and i have not got dies yet although as soon as i get 38 dies I have hundreds of 356-120TC bullets to load as they drop .359 , so when i got done with our 4H shoot and i was the last one at the range I loaded up , i fired 32 rounds some from standing some from a rest at 10 meters , yes meters or 11 yards in single action 6 shot group was 3-4 inches not great but I can make it better with some more practice my best group was about 2 inches , and i had some paper still out at 40 meters and i put a few rounds out there , i was on the 12/12 paper with all of them and actually had a decent 6 inch group with 4 of the rounds
the double action pull is smooth and firm but not hard , i fired some from 11 yards and had about a 6 inch group well almost a 6 inch line up the target a few of my groups were showing some vertical stringing

I wondered if some of this was grip, the factory grip is hard plastic with some checkering on the sides but not on the front or back , I when i got home i wiped the grip down with rubbing alcohal to get the oil off and used some gun tape and put added grip front back and the smooth part of the sides

i found gun tape when i was looking for something to help my grip on a older (1994) polymer pistol http://www.guntape.com/searchresults.asp?cat=1854 buy the 24 pack for 14 dollars you will find all sorts of uses for it at about 60 cents a sheet
I had originally fount it on amazon and paid about a dollar a sheet for 12 , if you don't like it , the tape peals right off once you get a corner up , yest seems to stay on well when your not picking at an edge.

I will bring the gun back to the range tomorrow as I have another 4H shoot and I will give it a try with the gun tap grip improvement and see how it shoots with my remaining ammo , then I need dies

the cylinder latch pulls , it isn't a wicked fast reloader but , if you don't expect to need shots 7-12 in a hurry it will do just fine

the finish is parkerized black , and the cylinder latch didn't seem to want to click forward all the way the first 30 or so times i opened and closed it i think the finishe is rough enough and thing were tight enough that it tool a little wearing in

the hole gun looked to be cnc machined inclusing the serial number and manufacturers location on the right side of the frame , the left side sports a RIA emblem not sure if it is lazered on or some other way

the hammer has a good shape is easy to thumb back and good serrations for grip

the cases don't just dump out , i suspect the chambers could benefit from a run of a brass brush spun in them to smooth the parkerized finish

if your looking for an off the shelf , custom shop smooth gun this isn't it , but it seems to be a decent shooter and with a little time , a few small things like grip tape i think it's a definite keeper

as for an entry level gun , this will shoot circles around my old iver Johnson pocket pistol any day

[jrayborn]

Pic's man, we demand pics!!

please?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Pic's man, we demand pics!!

please?
maybe tomorrow , i will see what i can do with my last 18 rounds

[scarry scarney]

How's the "fit" of the side plate. The BX at my nearby base had some, and they all had a small "gap" between the frame and side plate. But they sold within a couple of days.

[35remington]

Any mention of rating for Plus P from the manufacturer?

[tazman]

Any mention of rating for Plus P from the manufacturer?


It is NOT rated for +P according to the RIA site although I have read reviews where people said they shot +P in it.

[bedbugbilly]

GREENCOUNTYPETE - good information! Sounds like it will be a good shooter the more you get used to it.

I use the Lee 356-12-TC boolit in my -mm and my 38s. I cast out of "range lead" and my mold drops 'em at .around .358 or so. I load 'em :as cast" in my 38s - TL them in paste wax / a lox and they make a nice plinking boolit. They shoot well out of my 4", 5" and 6" barrels.

Glad you got it and thanks for the information on it. We look forward to hearing more and hopefully some photos? Enjoy!

[Alablam]

My son bought one, its ugly as sin but it groups good as in beats the last S&W's I've shot. The DA trigger is heavy but workable. As tazman noted it didn't say it was +P rated but it came with two fired cases and documentation that it was CIP proofed (no such rating as +P rating) and I believe that means it can use 22,000psi ammo if memory serves me.

[tazman]

It is NOT rated for +P according to the RIA site although I have read reviews where people said they shot +P in it.

Correction. The revolver is rated for "occasional" use of +P ammunition.
Probably meaning that if you use +P it won't blow up on you but would shoot loose quickly with a steady diet of higher pressure loads.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I got around to shooting it again Sunday late afternoon after we cleaned up the range from the shoot , I was soaked in sweat my hands were sweaty so the groups are nothing to write home about but not bad considering , i only had 18 rounds left on the box of factory American eagle so i fired 6sa and 6da 109329109330the last round was just off the paper on the DA target but measured 6 inches I think i can shrink both groups I just need more time an ammo to get the feel of how i need to hold , and get my trigger control better , and maybe not be tired hot and sweat covered might help also

I have no intention of loading +p my goal is a nice light target load that will make a decent bunny thumper walk about , that i can reload and reload over and over the brass and not have to chase it.

[Treeman]

Paperwork with mine says not +p.......but I would shoot +p through it without great reservation(My reasoning is that +p is less than proof(current factory +P seems to be less than standard loads of a generation ago!), the revolver is beefier than many +P and .357 mag rated guns. I know that doesn't make the metallurgy match up but there is plenty there for .38 spl +P. It isn't going to blow up. To shoot it loose will take more $$$ in ammo than the cost of the gun...................so I would load 'em up for self-defense without fear.

[Alablam]

I don't know if my son's Armscor is one of the few good ones or not, but on a rainy day at the 50 yd. range it was capable of 3-5" groups depending on my shaking hands and wobbly support. The groups seemed to be about 1-2" lower and about 2-3 inches left of the sights. For what he paid, I think he got a bargain.

[tazman]

I don't know if my son's Armscor is one of the few good ones or not, but on a rainy day at the 50 yd. range it was capable of 3-5" groups depending on my shaking hands and wobbly support. The groups seemed to be about 1-2" lower and about 2-3 inches left of the sights. For what he paid, I think he got a bargain.

If the sights are that close a 50yd, they would be dead on for all practical self defense work at much closer ranges.
I don't shoot well enough, or see well enough to do any worthwhile testing at the longer ranges. I am thoroughly impressed by anyone who can shoot3-5 inch groups at 50yds.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

109347
try that SA target pick

[Alablam]

Trust me tazman, I was more surprised than you. It helped that I was using a rest as well as having a steady hands day. Makes me wish Armscor would scale up to a New Service frame and offer a .44 special and .45 Colt. As it stands that cheap ugly gun shoots better than a few of my more expensive weapons. I also need to do a phoney "whoops" moment in front of my son and drop it a mud puddle to see it will still cycle dirty. My shooting past at chert pits on windy days told me the "six shoots sure" ain't so certain with a DA revolver. Very true with a SA revolver.

[tazman]

Greencountypete
I can't see the attachment.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I click the insert image , then upload the file from my camera it shows it to me on the screen 109387 i can see it as i type this

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

i clicked on it and it takes me to it this time

[tomme boy]

Not me. It seems that any picture that is attached will not work.

[tazman]

Still can't see it. I get an invalid attachment message.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Try this i opened a photo bucket account




http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m234/trapperpetebernstein/CIMG2079_zpsa3d61995.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/trapperpetebernstein/media/CIMG2079_zpsa3d61995.jpg.html)

[Mk42gunner]

Not a bad looking gun.

I wonder if grips meant for a Colt will fit it?

Robert

[tazman]

That works. Nice looking gun. In some ways I prefer a dull finish. Nothing reflecting to give you away.
I would like to be able to handle one of those and see how it fit my hands.
Is that the 50 yd target you were referring to?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

no , this was just 10 yards , and me being tired , and wringing wet with sweat , the 40 meter group was bigger i kept it all on a 100 yard sight in target , i don't recall if it was a 12x12 or 14x14 inch target

but it makes me think that this target has to large of a bulls eye if I went down to a smaller maybe 1 or 1 1/2 inch bull at 10 yards i could tighten up my sight picture then try a 3 or 4 inch bull at 25 yards and a 6 inch bull at 50

it is amazing how the size and shape of the target in reference the sights can make such a big difference when shooting groups with iron sites

I also think with some of my own reloads and trigger time and not being tired and sweaty it will improve

this target was not my best shooting

on the other hand this a fair example of walk up to the line load 6 rounds and shoot them no sighting shots no warm up, second day with the gun, just fire

[Treeman]

Mk42gunner, I put Colt DET SPL, Pachmayers on one Armscor snubby so yes! OTOH it is intgeresting to see the rubber grips on the 4 inch gun-Nicer look than the bulbous wood panels.

[FergusonTO35]

Cool! Got any pics? Also, with a medium burning powder you can get +P velocity no problem. My pet load is 5.8 grains Accurate #5 with Remington primer under a 158 grain boolit for a measured 875 fps out of my S&W 10-5.

[bedbugbilly]

Nice looking! I like the dull parkerized like finish on it. The hammer spur looks like ti would be an easy one to cock with the left thumb while shooting in SA. Looks to me like a good value for the money! Thanks for the photo!

[Mk42gunner]

Treeman, Thanks, that answers my question, since GreencountryPete said the issue grips are slick plastic.

I am going to have to hunt one of these down, I have been kind of wanting a no frills .38 for a while. I think one of these four inchers would work.

Robert

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

her is a pic with the grip off to give you a better idea of what might fit

http://http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m234/trapperpetebernstein/CIMG2089_zps8390875d.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/trapperpetebernstein/media/CIMG2089_zps8390875d.jpg.html)


also the grip is hard plastic but feels well shaped , just slippery in a few spots and the guntape gives it some traction in the hand on the cheap you can see the gun tape on the first picture there is a piece where my thumb sits , a piece in each finger groove and a piece down the back strap

the hammer spur lends it's self very well to left thumb cocking

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. So I guess the Armscor has the late model Colt DS grip frame or very close to it, meaning you have many options. Do you know what bullet weight it likes? I've been thinking about an econo wheelgun for when I'm working outside and that looks ideal. Here is a thread from another forum I found that shows the old and new style DS grip frames:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=343095

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

the manual says right hand one turn in 455mm I though i read that it was a 1:16 inch twist , but 455mm converts to 17 29/32 making it closer to 1:18 twist

not sure what it likes for boolits yet

[Alablam]

the manual says right hand one turn in 455mm I though i read that it was a 1:16 inch twist , but 455mm converts to 17 29/32 making it closer to 1:18 twist

not sure what it likes for boolits yet


I've loaded both 158gr. swaged SWCHP and 158gr. (actually 154-155gr.) RNFP. I think my son's Armscor liked best the RNFP with 4.5gr. Herco although the same weight of Universal with the swaged bullet was pretty good as well. Both loads are standard pressure, the Universal load is Hodgdon max.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I had a timing issue with the RIA M200 , so i called up RIA and just before the 4th of July they sent me a shipping tag and not wanting my gun spending any more time in a fedex terminal than needed waited to send it till the holiday was over

sent it off , RIA said they were expecting about 4 weeks time to repair

I got the gun back yesterday in just under a month , well actually i got the new gun they replaced minw with back in just under a month

so i have a new M200

the serial number is only about 100 higher than the one i sent in

this one seems good the trigger isn't quite as light as the other , i will get out to shoot it as soon as i can

[c1skout]

I just picked up a M206 this morning! I tore it apart and gave it a good cleaning & lube job. Doesn't look like I'll get to try it out till this weekend though. I've got various loads with 3 different bullet weights already made up to test, hopefully it likes the same load that my Charter 38 likes, that would make keeping a ready supply easier. I was planning on getting some Pachmayer's for it but I actually like how these ugly wooden grips feel in my hand, so I'll hold off on ordering different ones for now. I even lucked out and had 2 holsters in the holster box that it fits in!

[Tracy]

I had a timing issue with the RIA M200 ,

Did it have the timing issue out of the box, or did it develop over time?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Did it have the timing issue out of the box, or did it develop over time?

with time or at least time before i noticed it

i only had 50 rounds in it but had used it for dry fire training for several hundred more pulls of the trigger

i noticed the one i sent off the back of the cylinder where the hand lifts the cylinder to bring around the next round was pakerized , and the one i got back looks like that part is now stainless steel or at least bare of any finish

so i suspect that through many pulls of the trigger in double action that it wore down just a bit

the new one is tight and does not have the problem i have dry fired it maybe a hundred times and have about 60 round through it

i need to make up more and take it our again

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

made it to the range today and ran just short of a hundred rounds through it , the load is 2.5 gr Tight Wad under a lee 356-120tc lubed with 2 coats alox , it's nothing fancy but seems to shoot decent

I know there is no data on tight wad for 38 , i looked over the info and found some others testings and started as low and this was an increase from the last batch that were 2.3 gr , 2.5gr seems to be working i see no need to go any higher at this time

at 2.5 that is 2450 per can the cans are only 14oz as it is a bulky powder $16.75 is the price marked on the can .007 cents or less than a penny a round in powder , the primers i am currently using i gave 31 dollars the K so i have .038 cents plus tax coming to .0409 cents a round for powder and primer the lead i got with 4 tires and brakes i needed any way and it is so much easier to find that 22lr

i had no trouble hitting a 6 inch plate from 15-20 yards back i didn't get much on paper

on my next batch i will have to put some on paper from a rest and see how they do

really enjoying not picking up brass and not loosing any cases I am keeping a box of 50 federal factory loads that i mostly ran through the first gun separate and marking the box with how many loadings , to see how many i can get on one batch of brass , this was the second loading of those 50 pieces of brass

[FergusonTO35]

Glad to hear its going well. I think you will find that the case mouths of your brass will eventually crack from repeated crimping before the brass actually wears out. That usually happens to mine sometime after the 20th loading. ;-)

[c1skout]

Got to shoot my snubby some. Didn't try anything on paper but we were ringing steel with it at 15 and 20 yards more often than not! I'll have some more rounds and try some on paper next time out. My gun's trigger felt pretty good to me in both double and single action, and I had no leading shooting my range scrap cast sized at .358, mostly Lee tl158swc but I burned up some 125rf and 148wc too, all with Bullseye powder.

Greencountypete, mine has the stainless-looking rear of the cylinder too, no timing issues yet.

[FergusonTO35]

There is a 4" barrel version in a pawn shop near me that looks to have not been used much and has been there awhile. Might have to go make a deal on it...

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

There is a 4" barrel version in a pawn shop near me that looks to have not been used much and has been there awhile. Might have to go make a deal on it...

check the ejector if it is bare metal i think it is better
brand new peice was 230 dollars plus tax and fees
I would offer 75 dollars , say your willing to take the risk on it for that, but you have heard of some issues , and the used ones don't carry a warranty , the warranty sheet says 1 year warranty from registered purchase

[FergusonTO35]

Centerfire Systems one county over sells 'em brand new for $199.95 so they turn up in pawn shops from time to time. The one I really would like to have is the 202, which has a 4" steel unshrouded barrel.

[Tracy]

with time or at least time before i noticed it

i only had 50 rounds in it but had used it for dry fire training for several hundred more pulls of the trigger

i noticed the one i sent off the back of the cylinder where the hand lifts the cylinder to bring around the next round was pakerized , and the one i got back looks like that part is now stainless steel or at least bare of any finish

so i suspect that through many pulls of the trigger in double action that it wore down just a bit

the new one is tight and does not have the problem i have dry fired it maybe a hundred times and have about 60 round through it

i need to make up more and take it our again

That's good to know. That's actually good that it happened at such a low round count, because it indicates a simple fitment problem rather than a durability problem. If it had cropped up after 1,000 rounds, that would be bad news.
I've thought about buying one and putting 1,000 rounds of +P through it to see how it holds up.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

made it to the range today

this fairly well sums up this gun ,

115328

the first few shots will be perfect on the mark then it wanders low and right then settles in about just to the right , I have never had one do this but it seems the first shot or 3 will be right on then it starts to wander , I am probably responsible for some of the fliers but the pattern seems to keep happening it shoots to the right after warming up but not before wandering low

I didn't get to shoot the first one near as much I am at 300 rounds now on this one , but it also seemed to wander as it warmed up but low and left not right



I would really like to see a M202 with the un-shrouded barrel , i wonder if it stays put without the shroud of a different metal

but i am definitely digging being able to fill up one pocket with a box of shells and walk around shooting and when i am done all the empties are clean and in my other pocket , no picking up to do , no lost brass

[Low Budget Shooter]

Yes, that is one of the nicest things about revolvers over against bottom feeders.

[FergusonTO35]

Do you guys find these revolvers shoot point of aim with 158 grain boolits?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Do you guys find these revolvers shoot point of aim with 158 grain boolits?


I only had the one box of factory 158gr LRN on a 6 inch target I had to use a 6 Oclock hold to hit he middle and then start wandering you can see that on my first targets posted at the beginning of the thread

with the 120-356tl and 2.5gr tight wad i am setting that approximately one inch dot drectly on top of the sight post and hitting it then wanderingdown then settling in just to the right

[tazman]

That wandering pattern is strange. I have no idea what would cause that.

[c1skout]

I shot mine some more this weekend, maybe another 120 rounds or so. Still didn't try it on paper, but I can hit the steel almost as well with it as with my 4" gp100 or 1911 from up to 20 yds. I've been using a 6 o-clock hold shooting 158swc with a moderate bullseye load.