Swaging .224 billets from .22lr casings newbie needs advice

[donovansn585]

I'm thinking about getting into making .224 projectiles from .22 lr casings and scrap lead. Can someone please tell me the cheapest and easiest way to get setup for doing this. I have watched many videos on this subject and everyone uses lead wire. I want to use the scrap lead I have so what is the best way to use scrap lead. Can someone also please make a recommendation on the cheapest easiest dies I should buy to do this. I'm sure this has been covered before my apologies.

[Sitzme]

First, it will not be cheap or easy. You might get lucky and find a set of good used dies for a few hundred$ but not likely. If you buy a new set you will be better off to purchase from an established vendor. There are multiple cavity core molds available for .22 that should make it easier to use your scrap lead. Be aware that unknown alloys can be harder and create issues including breaking things. Budget about $1500-$2500 and be prepared to wait a long time for tooling.

[clodhopper]

Sitzme is right on with his advice.
If your scrap lead supply has such things as lead flashing, and lead pipe they will should work pretty good to make bullet cores, just be sure to cut out any soldered joints before melting.
Solder contains tin which makes lead tougher. Which breaks expensive dies.
If you can get access to air rifle pellets they will make good cores too. Find a local air rifle program teaching marksmanship, Like 4-H or the turkey foundation, volenteer to help get kids shooting, and possibly get free lead from the traps.

[BT Sniper]

Larry Blackmon offers the least expensive set of dies last I heard. Don't know if he offers a core mold though? My complete set up is $1460.

BT

[donovansn585]

All the lead I have is cable sheath lead so it's pretty much pure other than a few solder joints, but when I tested it's bnh it was just a little above pure

[BT Sniper]

That should be very good lead for cores. I would use it without hesitation.

BT

[bullet maker 57]

I can make wire for you. Pm if you are interested.

[clodhopper]

Cable sheath is as good as it gets for making cores! I have had good dealings with BTSniper, Bulllet maker 57
and A L Floyd for dies, tools and components.

[tiger762]

I have RCECO kit. Press, 3-die flat-base soft-point 6S die set and derimming die. Got a pint of swaging lube and a spool of 3/16" lead wire. I think to the door it cost $1280.

There's not much difficulty to it. Everyone's dies will work more or less the same. Unless you try to use the reloading press dies you see on ebay. Here's what they are not telling you. To derim a 22LR, you'll have the die starting up high, to partially derim the 22. Then, pull the 22 out and move the die one or two turns down and finish it. Reloading presses just aren't meant to generate the high pressures needed and the use of one I believe is false economy.




I'm thinking about getting into making .224 projectiles from .22 lr casings and scrap lead. Can someone please tell me the cheapest and easiest way to get setup for doing this. I have watched many videos on this subject and everyone uses lead wire. I want to use the scrap lead I have so what is the best way to use scrap lead. Can someone also please make a recommendation on the cheapest easiest dies I should buy to do this. I'm sure this has been covered before my apologies.

[donovansn585]

Thank you everyone for the advice. So it looks to me like you can't get in to this hobby for under a grand. I am definitely going to have to do some thinking, that's more $ than I expected and the investment may never pay off. I can buy a lot .223 projectiles for $1000. I was really trying to find a way other than casting to use all this cable sheath lead as well as feed my ar. I cast for most everything but found .223 to be a pain to cast for.

[tiger762]

Well, you might find someone who is burnt out or just needs money. I have seen some complete kits (press/dies) for less than that but it'll get scooped up quick. To get my mind wrapped around the cost and the wait was to take how many projectiles I wanted (12,000) and how much they are worth to me ($0.10/ea). The $1200 comes close to the total price I paid. Now on the one hand, there's labor in there to take into account BUT I have a TV in the basement I can watch while swaging. Also, the press ($469) is not totally dedicated to swaging that one caliber only. It makes a formidable platform for doing reloading operations or swaging other calibers in the future. I put it on the credit card and paid it off over 1.5 months. That's just what worked for me. Others will of course have their own reasons that are important to them.....

[MUSTANG]

Thank you everyone for the advice. So it looks to me like you can't get in to this hobby for under a grand. I am definitely going to have to do some thinking, that's more $ than I expected and the investment may never pay off. I can buy a lot .223 projectiles for $1000. I was really trying to find a way other than casting to use all this cable sheath lead as well as feed my ar. I cast for most everything but found .223 to be a pain to cast for.

Or you might try posting a "Want to Trade" (WTT) on the Swap and Trade Forum for this site. Given the number of Swagers here, you might find someone willing to trade "XX Pounds of Lead" for "XX Swaged .224's."

[IT Hitman]

I know that there are very few people who have dies for swaging for commercial sale. BT has a good set. iv seen the bullets they make, very nice.
then there is corbin.

I personally got my dies from a guy on ebay and i love them. they make a beautiful 55gr FMJBT that my AR just loves. sized right at .224

Other than the dies you will need a decent press. i use a RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme with no issues. I recommend if your using a reloading press (some dies require a specific press type) that you get/use one that cams over. i found that, when adjusted right, the cam over helps you know when the bullets are swagged properly. i have all my dies preset on Hornady lock-n-load bushings so i never have to adjust my press to swage.

other than dies and press you will need supplies. soft lead to swage into the jackets, jackets, lube, etc.

i would avoid the .22 rim jackets for your first bit. they can be a bear if not annealed right. i got one stuck in my die because it wasnt annealed right and it was a $200 fix. YIKES!

copper jackets and patience is key. lube your dies and jackets well and you wont have a problem.

keep in mind noone is perfect at this stuff. it took me quite a while before i actually got the dies set properly. i still screw up now and again. just be patient and do things slow and you will be fine.

i bought my dies for $300 from ebay and i have made almost $700 worth of bullets for me and my friends, all of which are in a burm at the range atm. =D

[fredj338]

I went with BT's dies & core mold, not cheap but really high quality. I never understood the lead wire thing. It's not cheap for sure, still lots of work cutting cores, still have to swage them. So casting from scrap means free cores & free jackets from range pickups. BT's core mold does 11 at a pop, 1000 in less than an hour. I'll never pay for the dies, but will always have bullets.

[plus1hdcp]

I went with BT's dies & core mold, not cheap but really high quality. I never understood the lead wire thing. It's not cheap for sure, still lots of work cutting cores, still have to swage them. So casting from scrap means free cores & free jackets from range pickups. BT's core mold does 11 at a pop, 1000 in less than an hour. I'll never pay for the dies, but will always have bullets.

It is also in how you look at your investment. I too bought BT dies and am glad I did. The wait was longer than I wished but I learned a lot during the time and since then also. I also appreciated the tooling required to create the dies. More importantly, and this is how I also rationalize my purchase, I spent Tuesday at the range with my 11 year old son and 77 year old father and we shot till we decided to leave. I cannot put a price tag on a that day at the range. I have had numerous similar range sessions like that too.

Reloading supplies are also starting to show some signs of returning to an in stock status but how long will that last. Until the next Evil Black Rifle scare or political rally cry? All I now need is some time in the shop to knock out some new swaged bullets. There is a sense of freedom from having to mail order or run to the gun shop for bullets, just like our cast rounds.

Best of luck in your decision.

[fredj338]

Reloading supplies are also starting to show some signs of returning to an in stock status but how long will that last. Until the next Evil Black Rifle scare or political rally cry? All I now need is some time in the shop to knock out some new swaged bullets. There is a sense of freedom from having to mail order or run to the gun shop for bullets, just like our cast rounds.

Best of luck in your decision.
Exactly why I went with a swaging setup. Sure, I could have just bought $1000 worth of 223 bullets, probably never shoot that many, but it's also a new hobby that produces useful results. Now if I could just make a reliable primer, I would be all set. Powder can be scrounged form many sources, but primers, gotta have those.

[IT Hitman]

Exactly why I went with a swaging setup. Sure, I could have just bought $1000 worth of 223 bullets, probably never shoot that many, but it's also a new hobby that produces useful results. Now if I could just make a reliable primer, I would be all set. Powder can be scrounged form many sources, but primers, gotta have those.
reliable primer? work for CCI, get the formula, then tell us and resign. problem solved!

[fred2892]

reliable primer? work for CCI, get the formula, then tell us and resign. problem solved!

Not if the latest batch of CCI large pistol primers are anything to go by. Bought 3000 a couple of months ago and am just coming to the end of the first thousand. Averaging 5 in 100 failure rate. Not just me either. CCI primers are regularly cursed at my local range recently. If only they were as reliable as the white box Russian primers. Just finished off 5000 of those without a single misfire and they are less than half the price of CCI.

[IT Hitman]

I got started for under 600$. Iv made over 8k bullets for me, my father, and several of my friends. At $0.10 each on the bullets thats over $800. Its paid for itself already. The press you have really doesnt matter. So long as you have your dies set right your golden. Iv had amazing results from my ebay set. Granted they are nowhere near what BT's do. But nonetheless they are fantastic for the money.

[OBIII]

Another option might be getting a .223 mold that is designed without lube grooves. Cast your bullets, powder coat them, size as needed. No gas checks or brass/copper jacket required. Done correctly will leave very little leading, if any. Plus, you can make them any funky color that you like. :Fire:

OB

[IT Hitman]

Another option might be getting a .223 mold that is designed without lube grooves. Cast your bullets, powder coat them, size as needed. No gas checks or brass/copper jacket required. Done correctly will leave very little leading, if any. Plus, you can make them any funky color that you like. :Fire:

OB

My enamel coated boolits are jet black. I dont even GC them. No need. Just cast, coat, size, load, and bang. I cant tell you how many times iv been complimented on my black beauties.

[Prospector Howard]

Here we go again. Trying to compare powder coated boolits to REAL JACKETED bullets. Unless someone can put up some legitimate testing with targets showing the same type of accuracy with powder coated lead boolits as real brass or copper jacketed bullets at the same speed, then everyone talking about this is comaparing apples and oranges. Powder coated boolits are nothing more than lead boolits with a thousandth or two of paint on it. It may help keep leading down but it is still a lead boolit. The lands on your rifle are going to cut through the paint and reach and make contact with the lead. With a properly made jacketed bullet the lands never come close to making contact with the lead core. They may look cool or whatever, but they are not the same in any stretch of the imagination. Please keep the discussion on powder coating where it belongs, in the powder coating section.

[MUSTANG]

Here we go again. Trying to compare powder coated boolits to REAL JACKETED bullets. Unless someone can put up some legitimate testing with targets showing the same type of accuracy with powder coated lead boolits as real brass or copper jacketed bullets at the same speed, then everyone talking about this is comaparing apples and oranges. Powder coated boolits are nothing more than lead boolits with a thousandth or two of paint on it. It may help keep leading down but it is still a lead boolit. The lands on your rifle are going to cut through the paint and reach and make contact with the lead. With a properly made jacketed bullet the lands never come close to making contact with the lead core. They may look cool or whatever, but they are not the same in any stretch of the imagination. Please keep the discussion on powder coating where it belongs, in the powder coating section.


Have to agree with Prospector Howard. I tried the "Swaged Lead" .224 and powder coating, and my results were less than spectacular. See posts #23 through 26 at: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?211708-224-65gr-SP-Pointed-Tip-Mould-Group-Buy!&p=2585532&highlight=#post2585532
I have abandon Powder Coating Swaged Lead .224's until I see someone produce better results than I got. I am still cranking out quite a few .224's wearing jackets that were previously 22LR's, and get immensely better results on targets and steel plate.

[OBIII]

Perhaps someone would point out the salient points on where cast PC boolits were compared to jacketed. I put in the PC to ensure that the OP knew of alternatives, (which I am sure that he did, but you never know). Please excuse my ignorance.

OB

[IT Hitman]

Pc is also different than enamel coating. I have successfully smashed a coated lead bullet without any of the lead being exposed. May not work for others but it does for me.

As OB said. Excuse my ignorance.

[MUSTANG]

My comments are based on my experience, and not an attempt to beat down some ones questions or ideas. If I were able to swage a 60, 70, or 80 Grain .224 with a 6 ogive or 8 ogive; and then coat it with Powder coat and shoot it at the same (or in some shooting application - near) the same accuracy level I get with my .224's swaged with 22LR, then I would go that way. It is just in my experiments it did not work out and I did not see any blue skys on the horizon so I left it for others to explore.

Each shooter will have different goals and acceptability criteria. My criteria is weighted more towards accuracy than "Speed of Mass Production" for .224's. To each his own, and if someone finds a way to swage a lead .224 boolit - powder coat it - and shoot 1MOA or less groups at 100 yards, post results and help me and others do the same with PC.

[Prospector Howard]

I'm not trying to jump down anyones throat. It's just that it's seems like every thread nowadays gets hijacked or polluted with stuff that has nothing to do with what was originally asked. The OP wanted to know about swaging dies. What I'm saying though is I've seen no credible evidence for powder coating for the smaller diameter bullets like .224 to come anywhere close to the same level of accuracy as real copper or brass jacketed bullets at anywhere near the speed that is intended for these rounds. There is no way I'd be happy shooting lead boolits at under 2000 fps in a .223 rifle. I might as well plink with a .22, (which I do, and then use the spent cases for jackets and shoot those at 3000+ fps). That makes way more sense.

[DukeInFlorida]

Chuckbuster has made some amazing wire extrusion tools. Mine starts with a 44 mag pure lead cast bullet as the "ingot" and extrudes .187" lead wire in sticks. Chopped to size, and run through a core swage die, they end up at 47 grains.

[fredj338]

Another option might be getting a .223 mold that is designed without lube grooves. Cast your bullets, powder coat them, size as needed. No gas checks or brass/copper jacket required. Done correctly will leave very little leading, if any. Plus, you can make them any funky color that you like. :Fire:

OB
may work for lower vel bullets, but what about 223 vel? I have some vht coated 165gr lee I want to try in a 300bo, well see.

[OBIII]

This is where experimentation comes in. How fast can you push them out of a .223? Do 2 coats allow for higher speed vs. 1 coat. Once you reach the point where something you don't like happens, what ensues when a gas check is then applied?
I was not intending to hijack the thread or misdirect anyone. It seemed to me that the OP was interested in making plinking ammo, but did not want to go with strictly lead. Given the prices required to even get started swaging, I thought I would point out another option. In retrospect, I probably should have just sent him a PM about it. But then, only he and I would have known about it. And yes, I do swage my own .223's.

OB