Smelt opinions for a large amount of lead?

[GoodOlBoy]

Hey guys and girls, I am new to the forum but have been lurking for a long time. I have been reloading for around 15 years, but I am just now getting into casting. Anyway on to the point.

I picked up 217 pounds of lead from a scrap yard today. 134 pounds of it is in the form of 1/4" thick very old lead flashing. The rest is a mix of homemade fishing weights, boat anchors, and just weirdness (example? how about a Budweiser can full of lead, or a lead tube filled full of concrete?) Anyway the scrap yard guy only charged me for 200 pounds to make up for the various junk included, and on top of it he only charged me 2 cents a pound above what he pays for it because he just doesn't like dealing with it. So my question is when I get around to the smelt would you smelt the whole kit and kaboodle together (ie a mix not really talking about 217lbs in one pot) or keep the flashing separate? I am casting primarily 45-70, 45 long colt, 30-30, and 303 British so I know the flashing is going to need some tin and antimony at some point.

Anyway thanks in advance for any advice!

GoodOlBoy

[William Yanda]

GOB
Since I don't know your smelting set up, I assume it will not melt the whole lot at once. It would make sense to me to keep separate any lead which might be substantially different than any other, for instance the flashing. As I recall the flashing is probably close to pure or at any rate fairly soft. Any other lead in quantity enough to make a pot full as well. Good luck with your project and congratulations on the find.

[Defcon-One]

He said it!

I'd do the flashing separately and mark it as Soft Lead.

The rest I'd do in one batch and then test it and harden it as required for my intended use. Your line up of cartridges does not require anything super hard, but you'll need some Antimonial Lead and Solder to get exactly what you want.

[RogerDat]

That flashing is probably pretty close to plain lead. I'm with the others melt that separate if nothing else once you figure out what to mix into it for good results you will have a recipe for the all of that flashing lead. Might want to check out the sticky on using art pencils to test hardness. Good way to get an idea if any of your stuff is hard enough to use as is or harden the soft stuff.

Not to get your hopes up but things like fishing weights could have been made out of whatever was available at the time, WW's used to be free, and hard printing lead was common scrap for awhile as printing switched to digital. Some casters use a can as an ingot mold, peel the can off when ready to use, fits right into the pot.

I would pencil test to find out if any of it is hard and at least sort into harder and softer to make ingots from. Then maybe the scrap yard will use the gun to test an ingot from each batch.

[1_Ogre]

I'd smelt the flashing by itself because it most surely is pure lead, when your smelt pot is empty or about empty start with the rest and keep them separate. The Flashing will need some TLC to harden it up to a BHN of 12-14 for your uses. Test both of the batches after you have smelted them, then you can go from there to get your BHN to what ever you are looking for. I use linotype personally, it's available here in S&S for pretty good prices.

[merlin101]

Like everyone else, keep it separate (for now) The dive weights can be lead or zinc or a mix of the two so best to test them. For the lead pipe filled with concrete USE CAUTION!!! CONCRETE WILL "POP" WHEN HEATED AND THAT'S THE LAST THING YOU WANT IN A POT OF LEAD!! I'd beat on the pipe and get the concrete broken up and knocked out of there before melting. have fun be safe and welcome!

[fredj338]

I also vote separate. The flashing is near pure lead, good for certain applications & you can always alloy it up. The rest, melt it together & test for hardness, mark it accordingly. YOu could have something like range scrap to just over or under in hardness, about 10BHN.

[GoodOlBoy]

Thanks for the welcome, the information and the opinions guys both in posts and pms, I will certainly follow your advice on the situation. My smelt situation basically boils down to a cast iron pot; a few stainless spoons, ladles, and, spatulas; and an old lodge cast iron cornbread mold that I picked up at a garage sale for $1 when my wife wasn't looking :p . My heat source in the past (mostly for fishing and dive weights) has been just a small pit fire and really good coals, but I am keeping my eyes peeled for a good garage sale camp stove these days. I also appreciate the info on the issue with concrete in the lead pipe/tube. I honestly had not considered the possibility of a problem with it, and I smacked myself in the forehead after reading the post. I really should have caught that one myself. Same goes for the possibility of zinc in the fishing weights. Dunno where my head was. I had so focused on keeping WW lead free of zinc it never even clicked that whoever cast those old weights my not have cared about it.

I did a little digging last night before the thunderstorm hit us and I think I am going to have to watch this scrap guy a little closer. I found a handful of junk nails, and a few spark plugs in the bottom of one of the buckets. Not enough to be a problem, but enough that him rounding down the weight is seeming less and less magnanimous by the minute. :p Still I can't really complain considering how much I didn't pay for the whole kit and caboodle. Just makes me realize I really gotta keep my eye on this guy in the future. I guess the old hard and fast rule about scrap yarders and patent medicine men still holds fast. :p Live and learn.

Got a nice surprise this morning. One of the old men who lives nearby brought me a couple of heavy old soft lead and rebar boat anchors he found while he was fishing on the Neches river. Think I am going to have to find my great grandfather's old homemade sinker mold and return the favor. Heck he even brought us a bucket of green tomatoes ('maters for the rest of the country folk like me) for frying, and a few ripe tomatoes for canning. Said the deer and coons are just slaughtering his pea patch and tomato bushes. After a bit of conversation I found out he has an old Remington rifle chambered in 30 Rem that he used to use for deer hunting when he could get ammo for it. I ordered a set of loading dies for it this morning after he left. No reason in the world that fella shouldn't have food for his favorite old rifle.

Anyway! Thanks again for the info! Sorry about the rabbit trails!

GoodOlBoy

[boho]

Academy has their fish fryer for $29.99. Get it or your gonna use a lot of wood for 200+# of lead. Ask me how I know!

[GoodOlBoy]

Now that ain't a half bad idea boho! I think the closest academy to me is only about an hour and a half away. Might just hafta take me a road trip soon!

GoodOlBoy

[boho]

Yep there's a lot more wood for brisket and ribs around here since I got mine. A mans gotta eat too!

[lightman]

Very thoughtful of you to buy a set of dies and consider loading for the old fellow!

[country gent]

I have smelted over open fires for large batches years ago. Use a heavy large pot and make sure it is very stable. Get a good fire going and with pot full of lead put a shop vac blowing on the bed of coals. It really boosts the out put of the fire. You need to watch it close as it will melt alot of lead quick like this. I had a stand made up with 2 heavy racks. One for the fire one for the pot to set on. The shop vac blew in the very bottom. I used stoker coal and could melt 300+ lbs in about an hour. Took longer to clean, flux, and pour into ingots than to melt. Wood will work fine a blower will speed up the process. I would definitly get that slug of concrete out before it is smelted. Concrete is notorious for holding moisture, and is going to be a problem to get out of the pot otherwise. A cold chiesel may peel the lead of fairly easily. I to would keep the flashing seperate as it is close to pure lead and would be handy to alloy into a lead tin alloy for the 45 colt and 45-70. Once mixed it is alot harder to un mix. Also label the ingots as to what theyy are in a permenant method. I have a set of 1/2" metal stamps. I stamp the alloy into the ingots. 20-1, #2, lino, depending on what they are. You can tape the stamps together and one solid hit with a big hammer does the job quick. But you know forever after what they are.

[GoodOlBoy]

Thanks again for all the information folks! The more I get the less boo boos I can make down the road! I completely sorted through one bucket yesterday and was pleasantly surprised that the whole kit and kaboodle is lead flashing except for that old pipe with the concrete in it. The bucket (sans the pipe) weighed in at 109 lbs by itself. :p I had to unload it to move it, but I got it done. There's a few more pieces of the flashing in one of the other buckets, but the rest is either home cast fishing weights, or odds and ends. (More odds than ends I think) I pulled 2+ lbs of like new 3" decking screws out of the one bucket along with I dunno how many spark plugs. Still like I said I can't complain considering what I didn't have to pay for it all.

Lightman, it's just the way it should be, and heck it's just the way I am. That old fella has lived on that property for more years than I have been around. As far back as I can remember he and my grandparents traded, or just gave each other anything and everything from the forests, the creeks, the chicken yard and the garden. I've never known him not to tag out any given year he was hunting, and I've never known a better conservationist who keeps the predator count down and the game count high on his land. Like to broke my heart when I found out he was dry on feed for that old rifle. Those RCBS dies cost me more than I would have liked because 30 Rem is so uncommon, but I would buy them again in a heartbeat. I picked up 37 rounds of old brass from him today. 33 rounds are in good enough shape to be reloaded, though after de-prime I thought the dry walnut media in my tumbler was NEVER going to get it clean. I finally broke down and gave them all a good going over with 000 steel wool to cut the crud off of them and dumped them in again. They don't look new but they certainly are prettier than they were. I already have some bought 165 grain hard cast lead that I use for 30-30s that will find their way into those old brass when the dies get here. Along with IMR 3031 and a good Western Staynless Large rifle primer and he should be sittin' pretty for awhile.

country gent, Thanks for the info on the open fire smelt. This winter I may just have to park my caboose on a stump and give that a try. For now it's so danged hot outside that by august I may just lay the lead in the molds on the dashboard of my old truck and let it melt that-a-way :p I was going to try a small melt this afternoon, but the good Lord convinced me that it was hot enough outside without me addin' to it :p

Anyway sorry about the rabbit trails again, anybody who knows me knows I do it when talkin' or typin'.

Have a good one!

GoodOlBoy