For 9mm shooters who like heavier boolits.

[tazman]

Heavy for the cartridge boolit weight in 9mm require more thought and some special designs in order to work correctly in a comparatively small case.
I started researching heavier boolits for my 9mm pistols recently. I have been casting, loading, and test firing for nearly 3 months now and have some data to look at. The heavier boolits can cause problems that don't arise with lighter weight boolits due to the boolit length.
After having tried 7 different boolits that weigh 135 grains or more I have come to some conclusions and a theory.
First the data. All boolits were cast from range scrap and sized .357, tumble lubed with White Label 45-45-10 then loaded in mixed brass with AA7 powder. Later the powder for the NOE boolit was changed to a faster powder for the sake cost per round. The accuracy and function remained excellent.
The boolits I tried were the following

NOE 358-135fn ------------------------------Great results(perfect feeding and excellent accuracy)
Lyman 356634 135gr tc(actual 135gr)---- very poor(good feeding-lousy accuracy, some keyholing)
Lyman 356637 147gr (actual 152gr)------ so so(ok feeding, poor accuracy-no tumbling, just large groups)
Lyman 358212 146gr rn (actual 148gr)--- Great results(perfect feeding and excellent accuracy)
Lee 358-150-rn 150gr(actual 156gr)------ so so(good feeding, ok accuracy but very slow fps due to powder capacity)
Lee 356-153-rn 153gr(actual 158gr)------ Great results(perfect feeding and excellent accuracy)
Lyman 358311 160gr(actual 162gr) ------ Failure(never got to shoot, base of boolit consistently too small from being too far inside case, case swaging the boolit)

The ones that worked well had about .250 inside the case or just slightly more in the case of the Lee 153gr boolit. These boolits allowed OAL of nearly the maximum for the 9mm(except for the NOE 135fn which was 1.075) and still fed perfectly in my pistols. With relatively little of the boolit inside the case, there was plenty of room for powder and normal(for the boolit weight) or slightly heavier charges could be used. This is important to reduce the risk of over pressure spikes due to normal powder charge variations in a small volume case.

What I Noticed was that the boolits that performed poorly needed to be seated deeply into the case to feed/function in my pistols. My theory is, the thickness of the case as the boolit got seated deeper had an effect on the base of the boolit just enough to cause problems with accuracy in my pistols. In the case of the 358311 the problem was so obvious, I didn't even get to the range with it.
Unfortunately 2 of the best performing boolits for me came from discontinued molds. I may need to send some samples to Swede at NOE and see if he can make me a couple of his wonderful molds to get a bit more production.
I hope this can be of some help to someone .

[tazman]

Over 100 views and no opinions or comments?
That surprises me a bit. I figured some one would at least tell me what a dip I was for wasting my time with heavy boolits like this.

[obssd1958]

I don't see where any time was wasted. It sounds like you had a curiosity, and you worked at figuring it out.
In addition, you took the time to share your results with all of those who might be interested, and for that, I say "Thank you!"

My interest in your thread was purely random, as I have not cast for, nor shot cast in, my one and only 9mm.
It has a difficult time with jacketed!!

[Mr opinionated]

I guess i missed this post as the 9mm was what i first started to mess with about 4 yrs ago but more with 124 GR and under plated because at that time there was not much data on shooting plated bullets and i was not in to shooting cast that much. My question is why are you after the big bullet in the 9mm? never mind I guess i can answer that my shelf


My quest was just how fast and what would happen while shooting a plated pill that's were i used a lot of different weight and manufactures and a lot of different powders and i found out what would happen and were to stop, that could be a different store, enough with my rambling enjoy your quest as i can not help much in the direction your going but if you decide to go to the lighter side 125 GR an under i will surly help



MR."O"


What pistol are you using?

[DrCaveman]

I appreciate your work, and report, tazman

I have been wanting to go heavier in my 9mm, but i feel like 158 gr just loses too much velocity. Like you observed, you start losing case capacity real quick, so either get pressure spikes or are stuck with slow boolits.

Im thinking that something around 135-140 launched around 950-975 fps might be a good one. The NOE mold you mention looks like a winner

Unfortunately, im shooting an IMI 'baby eagle' and it has polygonal rifling. No big problems with lead buildup so far, but had some serious keyhole issues. Water dropping the boolots has helped, im essentially shooting jacketed round nose. Also, i have none of the molds you are using.

The lee 356-153-rn interests me but im concluding that is one of the discontinued ones.

Thanks for posting, nice writeup!

[Bohica793]

My ventures into heavy 9mm have involved the RCBS 9mm-147 mold (drops at ~152) range scrap sized at .358. Results were mixed based on different powders and poor attention to detail. I intend to revisit this round soon with a more detailed approach.

[Love Life]

WONDERFUL write up!!!

Thank you for the time and resources spent testing, and thank you for posting your result here.

[Bzcraig]

Yes, thanks for the post. I have the same NOE mold as you and use it for hollow points in 9 & 38.
great write up

[Catshooter]

Nice write up Taz.

I too have used the Lyman 356634. Mine, lubed with LARs 2500 weigh in at 140 exactly. Over a slightly less than max charge of Universal Clays they shoot very well out of my Glocks. But they must be water dropped or they lead badly, regardless of size. These are the factory barrels.

I like the fat meplat of these boolits. They run at just under 900 feet.


Cat

[jayjay1]

Thank you for your work and your will to share your results!

My experience with Lyman in .40 and .45 was, that the bullits came out to small, so I even cant size them to the dias I wanted to (.401 and .452)
In the opposite I love my Mihec molds, which are having an outstanding performane (where I wish I could get them in iron).

But I now will take an eye on the Lee 153gr., because I´ve shot some 153gr. Ares - bullets with great sucess in the past.
Would you be so kind and tell me in which dia. the Lee 153/358 throws?

[tazman]

It was listed as 356-153-2r. It drops at 157grains with range scrap at .358 diameter. I load it as long as I can fit in the mag. Approximately 1.158.
I have been running it over 5.0 grains of AA7. I tried more powder but got less accuracy. Obviously there is no data available for this particular boolit. I extrapolated from an old Lyman manual that had a listing for the 358311 in 9mm.
At this charge weight the load is soft shooting. Sorry, but I haven't run it over a chrono yet.

[oso]

I've had no lack of accuracy and no keyholes with boolits from my Lyman 4 cav 356634. In fact it is my preferred 9mm carry load with 5.1 gr surplus W 540. Agree with Cat about the large meplat. Mine drop at 138 gr with WW. IIRC the Lyman 356634 was originally thought of for 38 Super and more popular in Europe. I use it in 38 Super for light loads, but prefer the greater mass of the Lyman 356637.

Grüss jayjay1, good luck finding a Lee 356-153-2R, the mold has been discontinued for some time. My wife loves that boolit in her 9mm.

[bannor]

heavy bullets are de-regieur for IDPA and IPSC users of 9mm and .38 Super. standard weight bullets tend to keyhole and foul the bore, cause the normal alloy is not tough enough also, .357" sized bullets will bulge the cases in some brands of brass.

[jayjay1]

I agree.

I´ve used the 153gr. Ares bullets for IPSC with great sucess, high accuracy and pretty low recoil with faster powders (AA2 and N320).
But I only used one kind of brass and loaded very carefully, did chrono some after every loading session.

It´s well worth it, a dream of a soft load making Minor.

Now I´looking for a mold to do this bullets on my own.
In lack of other products, the LEE is a hot candidate now.

As tazman wrote (good to know) the 160s are a liiiiiittle bit to long and are bulging the case?!
Right?

[robertbank]

I have to say I have had little luck using the Lyman 356637 boolit. My mould drops the boolits out at 154 gr. I size them .357. Aside from so, so accuracy the recoil pulse was not significantly different to me than loads at the same PF using the Lyman 356402 boolit @ 125gr. That said I do have an itch that needs scratching. I may go back to my heavier boolit and spend more time with it. I use an M&P Pro for IDPA and I am not convinced the 1 - 18 twist favours the 154 gr boolit in 9MM.

Take Care

Bob

[tazman]

I may have an advantage on the twist rate. My barrel has a 1 in 10 rate(approx). It may do a better job of stabilizing a heavier boolit.
Also the felt recoil may just be due to the particular powder charge I am using as opposed to the boolit weight.
Since I am not loading for power, only accuracy, I may be running a fairly slow velocity, hence lower felt recoil.
I really need to put these loads over a chronograph.

[robertbank]

Your 1 - 10 twist should work well with the heavier bullets. S&W has since changed their twist rate on the M&P to 1 - 10. I have a 1 - 10 twist barrel on order. God only knows when it might come.

PM me your email address and I will send you my spreadsheet I have developed over the years with my 9MM loads recorded on it. You might find it helpful. Each load listed has the gun I used, temp and OAL etc.

Take Care

Bob

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

In the late 1980's, I loaded several thousand 9mm with a 150 gr bevel base SWC intended for .38 Super. I used a starting load or Red Dot for 147 gr JHP. Work great, no leading, no malfunctions, accurate. Whacked plates good for a 9mm. These were fired out of a Ruger P85.

[tazman]

In the late 1980's, I loaded several thousand 9mm with a 150 gr bevel base SWC intended for .38 Super. I used a starting load or Red Dot for 147 gr JHP. Work great, no leading, no malfunctions, accurate. Whacked plates good for a 9mm. These were fired out of a Ruger P85.

Is that the design with the long nose section? I think I may have seen one like that from Saeco

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Is that the design with the long nose section? I think I may have seen one like that from Saeco

I bought them already cast and sized from Bullet Meister in Phoenix area. I don't know the manufacturer/design of the mold.