Handi-rifle is getting there

[Marlin Junky]

I thought I'd post some targets shot after a long haul of breaking-in and load experimenting with my .35 Whelen H-R.

The first four targets were shot about a week ago with my 260 grain SWC cast of clip-on WW metal and heat treated for 1 hour at 450F. The charge was 50 grains of Ramshot Hunter with a 1/2 sheet of 1-ply stuffed on top to act as a wad, removing all the airspace. I also added one TBS of Carnauba to my 1.5 pound lube sample and haven't determined yet how much credit can be given to the Carnauba. Yes, the rifle is still throwing flyers, but I hope to correct that with a few applications of Tubb's Final Finish, which was referred to me by Bass Ackward who has also given me much needed good advice on this project. I have noticed that 1) this particular barrel has pretty shallow grooves that need to be keep clean in order for it to shoot well. The first four targets are posted in the sequence they were shot. 2) I have also noticed (with the aid of a magnifying glass) that lead builds up just forward the chamber, next to the lands while the muzzle end (using the Carnauba additive) stays clean... much cleaner than I usually tolerate with the old Ballard rifled 336's. I'm betting 35+ bucks that the Tubb's Final Finish will take care of the fouling problem and reduce (hopefully eliminate) the flyers.

The last target was shot about two weeks ago on a very damp yet well lit day, also with the 260 grain SWC cast of clip-on WW metal and heat treated for 1 hour but at 425F. The charge was 53 grains of Ramshot Hunter with no wad of 1-ply. The lube was the same as above but without the Carnauba ingredient. I purchased a 5-pound bag of Carnauba flakes about mid '07 with the recommendation of .357 Maximum and this was also a wise investment. If one does experiment with Carnauba (this stuff is T3 Carnauba), go slowly with it because just a TBS in a pound and a half of lube will make a very noticeable difference in the lube's physical properties.

The range is 75 yards and the sight is a Leupold VXII set on 4x. The velocity averaged 2069 for the first four strings and the 53 grain charge averaged 2102 fps (obviously the TP wad increased pressure somewhat). The white dot is 1-1/4" in diameter. I just want to take this opportuninty to thank Bass and .357MAX publicly, because without them, this .35 Whelen barrel would probably be holding up a tomato plant this summer. :drinks: One other handloading technique that might be worth mentioning is that the .35 Whelen necks were only sized to about half way to the shoulder. I haven't tested the hypothesis yet but I believe this technique helped align the rounds in the very loose throat which is .391" in the neck area while the groove diameter is .357". I am shooting .3585" boolits. (.3585" + .024" = .3825")

I need to post a quick P.S.: I loaded and shot all rounds just about a week after the boolits were heat treated.

http://www.theartdepartment.net/images/targets/360-260_1.jpg
http://www.theartdepartment.net/images/targets/360-260_2.jpg
http://www.theartdepartment.net/images/targets/360-260_3.jpg
http://www.theartdepartment.net/images/targets/360-260_4.jpg
http://www.theartdepartment.net/images/targets/360-260_0.jpg

[lathesmith]

MJ, it looks like you are on the right track. If you can figure out why you are getting leading in front of the chamber and correct this, I think you will have a decent shooter. Hopefully that bore polish will help get rid of the roughness, and hence the leading. You are right, those H&R barrels have very shallow rifling, and I suspect everything has to be just right for cast to work consistently, especially at those higher velocities.
lathesmith

[Marlin Junky]

Lathesmith,

Yeah, I shot the H-R today and was ready to sell it when I shuffled off for home. 49 grains of DP-85 did pretty good but after running a few through at over 2100 fps propelled by 51 grains, the accuracy was gone and I didn't have access to any cleaning equipment. I'm going to order a Tubb's kit just because I need to see what happens but I really want to work with a barrel that'll handle softer boolits. Those heat treated WW boolits would probably be fine for a brain shot on an elephant but bambi isn't going to slow one down much. I shot a rain soaked 4x4 length-wise today and the boolit penetrated 11" in a perfectly straight line.

MJ

[lathesmith]

I was going to suggest as a last resort, you might try some of that fire-lapping stuff. I don't know though...with that shallow rifling you might strip it out with just a few shots! My H&R's shoot cast okay, but only just okay. And I am not trying to push nearly the velocities that you are in that setup. Also, as you point out, heat-treated WW is less than optimal as a hunting slug.
I guess that is why I have gravitated to the T/C stuff--I have had much better consistency and accuracy to start with, without all the fiddling. You may yet succeed there, and if you do it will be a major accomplishment. Good luck!
lathesmith

[EMC45]

I just saw that you were getting leading in front of your chamber. I am too. In a 45-70 Handi. Only about one inch in front of the chamber area. No where else, just there. I am perplexed by this.

[mroliver77]

EMC45 Load and boolit alloy? Lube? Size. Have you tried softer? Harder? J

[Marlin Junky]

I just saw that you were getting leading in front of your chamber. I am too. In a 45-70 Handi. Only about one inch in front of the chamber area. No where else, just there. I am perplexed by this.

I've been monkeying around with boolit diameter, boolit hardness, lube and powder for months, that's why I've decided to try to smooth things out in the barrel. The barrel looks mirror bright on casual inspection (that's probably my Carnauba) but if you examine it with a magnifying glass near the chamber you'll see lead build up in the corners. Also, the rifle will group the majority of its rounds inside 1MOA (sans flyers) but once it gets a bit fouled it's like shooting buckshot one at a time. If lapping the barrel out to the point where it doesn't foul any longer near the chamber doesn't stop the flyers, then it could be something else (pretty profound, eh? :roll:).

MJ

P.S. OK, so I just ordered the Tubb's kit. I only hope 1 kit will do it cause this isn't designed for $100 barrels. Assuming I can find this thread again in a few weeks, I'll post "after" groups using 49 and 50 grains of DP-85 with the 260 grain SWC heat treated again at 450F. If I don't get any flyers or all else goes well, I shoot some ACWW metal afterwards.

[mroliver77]

Are you talking the Tubbs fire lapping kit? If I recall correctly it uses jacketed bullets to lap with. THAT really scares me! I only use soft lead and push as slow as I can. From what I have seen of the rifling in the new NEF barrels I would be very slow to take that leap. I would take a sugestion the Bass Ackward gives and shoot the crap outa it with some high antimoney low tin air cooled boolits with a mid range load if you can find one that dont lead. Let the boolits do the lapping for a while. Or buy some jacketed and do the break in procedure and then fire a bunch in it to smooth barrel.
J

[garandsrus]

mroliver77 ,

The Tubbs kit does use jacketed bullets for fire lapping...

John

[yarro]

If a .243 will kill bambi then a non-expanding 35 Whelen will kill Bambi. Plus you can break the shoulder with a 260 grain .35, but can't do that with a .243. I have killed 190lb northern Whitetail with a 8mmx58R rolling block carbine with a bullet a little over 200grains and the bullet did not expand one bit. Double lunged near the tips of the lungs, the deer went 65 yards from where I shot it. As far as fouling goes, you only have to shoot once to kill your deer if you can shoot it in the heart or lungs.

-Yarro

[mroliver77]

Like yarro reports a .35 boolit should not have to expand given the right nose shape. I use a .311440(Looks like a boxing glove for a nose) from the old GB mold when rifle hunting deer. Driven at 2000+fps it pokes 1"+ holes through them. The boolit does not expand one bit.
J

[NoDakJak]

I have had good luck using low velocity boolits and using JB Bore paste as a lube to smooth rough barrels. It isn't nearly as agressive as other products and you can judge your results without worrying about ruining a barrel. It is slow but certainly leaves an ultra fine polish. neil