Glock 41 45 ACP initial review [Archive]

W.R.Buchanan

06-23-2014, 12:54 PM

Love Life: well done on the load work up and Shoot Report. Very thorough!

I have been shooting a G21 SF at Front Sight and really like the gun. The G41 is merely a long slide version of the same gun, like the G17/22, 34/35's are.

When we saw the new G41 at SHOT this year I immediately wanted one, but found out immediately that this Glock is NOT on the CA Safe Handgun List and Glock is not going to go thru the BS of complying with their silly law. In fact Glock, Ruger and S&W are currently suing the state over this BS. Until this is resolved I can't have one.

I shoot my G21 better than my G35 and the best I can get out of them off a rest at 25 yds is about 3-4." So your results are directly in line with Glocks of the past.

You should do well at Front Sight with your new gun. :bigsmyl2:

Randy

captaint

06-23-2014, 03:38 PM

Great report LL. Refreshing to hear someone own up to being human. You've got plenty of company. Good company, too. Mike

FergusonTO35

06-23-2014, 05:25 PM

Glad to hear you and your gun survived. I thought those AA#7 loads sounded high!

W.R.Buchanan

06-23-2014, 05:45 PM

Love Life: My standard load for .45 ACP with 230 gr Copper plated boolits (X-treme) is 5.4 gr of Bullseye or 5.7 gr of W231. I switched to W231 as the Bullseye made the gun very dirty quickly. I tend to look for something that shoots well and functions well and then just do that rather than going on long load development safaris. 90% of all .45 ACP rounds loaded in the history of the cartridge were loaded with 5-5.5 gr of Bullseye. It was the factory load, powder of choice up until about 1970.

My G21 has had exactly two factory rounds fired thru it in it's entire life of 4000+ rounds. My bro in law gave them to me one day we were at the range and I wanted to see if they shot any different than my hand loads. they didn't! The whole reason I bought that gun in the first place is because I had thousands of .45 ACP cases that had gotten picked up at the range and I needed something to do with them.

Turns out I like the .45 a lot better than the .40 S&W, and I shoot it better. I still use both just because.

.45 ACP is a pretty forgiving caliber to load for. I would stick to the 800-900 fps range as far as loads go. Really that's all you need with the 230 gr boolits. not much difference between a bus hitting you at 55 or 65 mph, you're still squished flat. I tend to look at .44's the same way. I'm looking for 800-900 fps with a 429421 for my new .44 Special Popper, S&W 696. Right now I'm at about 750 fps with a 3" bbl. and 5.4 gr of W231. So 6.0 should get me into the 800-850 range. These same loads will end up in my BH Bisley and SBH Bisley as well. Lot to be said for standardizing your loads. You spend more time shooting and less time wondering.

I always check multiple sources when looking for a new load to try and cross reference between them. Usually you can find something that jives between 2-3 manuals and you know for sure it isn't a typo or something like that. Also you will note that similar cartridges tend to use very similar load amounts of the same powders. IE: .45 ACP, .45 LC, 44 Special all are very similar when using similar sized boolits. So you can cross reference with those as well. If you compare enough sources for load data side by side you will begin to see patterns emerge.

This helps you better understand the art of reloading.

Randy

dk17hmr

06-23-2014, 07:44 PM

......Once I get done eating my shredded beef tacos.....
I would like to hear more about this :)

My first thought when I saw this model Glock hit the market "this would be ideal for a 460 Rowland conversion and a Trijicon RMR melted into the slide"

garym1a2

06-23-2014, 07:58 PM

I like my G21SF quite a bit. Though I go the oposite route and instead of max loads I tend to go for the wimpy loads that shoot well. 4.2 gr of WST and a Lee 200gr SWC is very accurate in my Glock and reliable. Lubed with a thick groove of 50:50 Alox/Beeswax. This combo just works. So does useing about the same 4.2gr charge of Bullseye.

Tom W.

06-23-2014, 08:19 PM

Kinda looks like the first bunch of brass from my new Mod.30.... Which I have since regulated to my Ruger Blackhawk, due to high pressure signs... Shooting store bought until I can get my press set up again...

9.3X62AL

06-23-2014, 08:39 PM

Save that AA-7 for the 10mm, use BE or WW-231/HP-38 in your 45 ACP applications. Sola mi dos centavos.

rintinglen

06-23-2014, 11:02 PM

It is precisely this sort of problem that has kept me off the Accurate Arms Bandwagon. The lack of consistency from lot to lot can be darned scary! I ran into a similar problem with one of their rifle powders--I think 2520, but I don't have that data any more--two tenths of a grain off the start load and I was sticking cases.

Jupiter7

06-23-2014, 11:55 PM

Hey LL,

The AA5 data may restore your confidence. I've been testing it out and have been pleasantly surprised with +p data, but I don't do Glocks anymore. My testing has all been in 5" 1911's. I suspect this may be a Glock issue more than a load data issue.

W.R.Buchanan

06-24-2014, 11:58 AM

I agree the Glock issue pretty much doesn't exist. In fact most Glock Issues begin just below the wrist. [smilie=b:

On the slide. The G35 and G34 have a cutout on the top of the slide. Everybody thinks this is some kind of porting. It is a lightening hole and as a result the slide on a G22 weighs the same as one on a G35. I can take the entire top end off my G35 and put it on the lower from my Bros G22. They are identical in that respect. They also use the same recoil spring, so all parts are interchangeable between the guns.

When I saw the G41 at SHOT, and then quickly found out I couldn't have one, I said well I'll just buy a slide and barrel and put it on mine. The answer was "we won't sell you a slide and barrel," But if we did, it would work.

LL look at Dawson Sights. I have a Green Fiberoptic (Red in pic) on the front and it shows up really well in the daylight, and their Adjustable Rear is pretty nice as well. I have them on both my guns.

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/CategoryProductList.jsp?cat=SIGHTS+FRONT

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

06-25-2014, 01:31 PM

I held the gun recently at a LGS and it feels just like a G35 with a larger grip. or a G21 with a longer barrel. I want one, but right now the only way for me to get one is to buy it from someone as a private party transfer. I could get a G42 the same way.

In CA right now the is something known as a Single Shot Exemption. This is done for a gun that is not on the list, and involves changing the barrel and magazine. Then when you pick the gun up 10 days later you leave the store and then come right back in and they put the original barrel and mag back in, and off you go.

The problem with this is the fact that it adds $ to the cost. A G42 which is normally about $440 ends up being $650+, and I don't need one that bad.

Same with the G41. I'd like one but I don't need one that bad. A used one will come up sooner or later.

Randy

jmort

06-29-2014, 05:52 PM

I respect that you evaluate and call them as you see them. You do the work, apply the "scientific" method, and let the chips fall where they may.

fivegunner

06-29-2014, 07:05 PM

I was just going to buy a 41, now I will hold off awhile, still planning on getting a 30S. please keep us informed on your 41. best regards Frank:bigsmyl2:

W.R.Buchanan

06-29-2014, 10:48 PM

Love Life: I am having problems with some of your logic. You are trying to push a load on this gun that is well beyond what is necessary for the .45 ACP, and complaining when the gun doesn't run right?

Your statement that "there are no pressure signs noted" is of no consequence with the 45 ACP since it doesn't run at high enough pressure even at +P loadings to generate any visible case deformation. This is why it is such a good round to learn to load pistol ammo for,,, It is very forgiving. You could be getting 23,000+ psi and not know it, and that is above +P which is 21,000psi .

Then you proceed to say,,, "At the end of the day you ran 200 rounds of 5.0 gr of Bullseye with no malfunctions!"

Well maybe that's your answer? [smilie=b: Just sayin'?

My standard .45 ACP load with Bullseye is 5.4 gr with a 230 gr copper plated boolit. This is not far from your 5.0gr. load and in a 5" bbl. should generate @850-900 fps.

My G21 with a 4" bbl. does this same thing with 5.4 gr of BE or 5.7 GR of W231. I started at 5.0 and upped the charge to get a little more Vel.

Why not use your Bullseye load and be done with load development? Then you can go to Front Sight with your Mom and shoot 800 rounds in 4 days. You will need factory ammo for that trip, and I just bet your gun will do fine.

Your last paragraph, I feel, is a little premature.

If the gun functions with factory ammo either standard or +P loadings then the problems you are encountering are not with the gun.

Just because a load is in a book doesn't mean it is going to work in every gun. Your gun is exactly the same as mine except for the slide and barrel. Pretty sure Glock took all this under consideration. My gun has had exactly two factory rounds fired in it, the rest of the 4000+ have been my handloads using either of the above two powders. I don't remember the last time it malfunctioned. All of my reloads have been high mid range loads, and I see no reason to push the .45 ACP to +P levels ever. Browning didn't see a need and nobody even did +P .45's until the last 20 years. Why we need +P , I still haven't figured out? The round has functioned perfectly for over 100 years at normal pressures. Served the Military for 75 years, was replaced by a gun that is meant for people who can't hit with the first shot, and is now being reinstated.

If I need a heavy boolit load I have .44's for that.

One last point,,, Glock doesn't care if it's guns function with YOUR Reloads. They only care about them running with "FACTORY Ammo.

I just bet yours will run perfectly with normal Factory .45ACP ammo. Duplicate that and you'll be up and running.

Randy

robertbank

06-29-2014, 11:01 PM

Working on eliminating variables. I pulled 5 rds and weighed the charges on both my Chargemaster and beam scale. The charges were dead on for what they were supposed to be.

I then took 3 virgin starline cases and got the H20 capacity: (1) 27.5 gr (2) 27.9 gr (3) 27.8 gr
I then took 3 Winchester cases that have been SS cleaned and got H20 Capacity: (1) 26.8 gr (2) 26.8 gr (3) 26.8 gr

I was very surprised with the capacity consistency of the Winchester...however that is not the point. The starline brass has more case capacity so the issues are not cause by the brass.

Hmmm... not much else to really test here to try and say it's not the gun. Anything else I should be looking for?

Something to think about. I recently have been developing loads using a 200 gr boolit for my 38spl cases shot in a GP-100. Recomended OAL was 1.500 which leaves a portion of the bullet , before the olgive exposed. For competition this can add time to a reload as shorter cartridges generally load faster than longer ones in the same caliber. I reduced the OAL by 15/100th of an inch thus reducing case capacity. My load is at maximum for the cartridge based on my Lyman manual. Over my Chrony there was no increase in velocity, I have no way of knowing what the pressure difference was but based upon velocity achieved it would appear to be nominal. My conclusion is, while on the surface logic might tell you one thing, for all practical purposes there may be no significant increase in results ie velocity.

All that aside I sometimes think we over think what we are doing. Over the years there have been developed some pretty standard loads for some bullet /cartridge/powder combinations. Something to think about.

Take Care

Bob

robertbank

06-29-2014, 11:41 PM

With today's powder shortages it helps to experiment a little. FYI 231/HP 38 works well in the 45 ACP. For us up here right now neither powder is readily available so the question is moot. I have enough 231 to keep my 1911's running for awhile. The powder shortage can't last forever.

Take Care

Bob

W.R.Buchanan

06-30-2014, 05:05 PM

Love Life: the only way to see what is really going on is to shoot your loads over a chronograph. That will tell you how hot the loads are for sure.

I am looking in Lyman 49 at the loads for 225 gr cast boolits. Of the loads I talked about with Bullseye and W231/HP38 my BE load is .4 higher than max for that powder however they are saying 14,400 psi so I don't see 5.4 pushing it too much. using extrapolation I estimated 850 fps which is not that hot either.

My W231 load which is now my standard is 5.7 gr which should be at 890 fps and about 17,500 psi. This is very near the top for that powder and at 17,500 psi is just into +p.

I see no loads for AA#7 there are loads for AA#5.between 6.6 and 8.2 gr with 17,300 listed as top pressure.

There are 19 powders listed in Lyman 49 for that boolit type and weight. Typically the one in bold type was the one they got the best results from. That's why I chose W231 for this cartridge. It also works great in my .40 S&W loads and .44 Special as well.

I am not the one telling you to use only Bullseye loads, in fact I would be the one telling you to use W231 loads if I was telling you anything at all.

What I am telling you,,, is that YOU told US that the gun functioned perfectly thru 200 rounds of Bullseye loads. Those loads are probably the closest to Factory loads there is

Maybe it doesn't like the pressure curve of the other powders? And that could be why the thing acts stupid with those other loads.

Also nobody is putting you down, we are just trying to encourage to solve this problem. I guarantee that if you send the gun back to Glock and tell them it won't run with your reloads they are going to give you the finger.

Solving the problem and finding a powder that the gun actually likes is the answer to the question. You have one load that does work, find another. :bigsmyl2: Then go to Front Sight!

Randy

9.3X62AL

07-06-2014, 02:26 PM

What is the OEM/"stock" recoil spring rate? 16# like the 1911A1?

9.3X62AL

07-06-2014, 02:51 PM

Talking to Glock (or SIG-Sauer) is An Interview With The Omniscient, in my experience. If a matter is outside their experience, it couldn't can't and won't happen. Teutonics.......if not kept at your feet, they'll be at your throat.....that last bit from my deceased uncle of German extraction, a native-speaker who helped debrief Nazis during and after WWII.

W.R.Buchanan

07-06-2014, 04:51 PM

Good to see you solved this problem.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

07-08-2014, 12:23 PM

LL Like I said, "they don't care about your reloads." The gun is designed to shoot factory ammo. Yours ran fine on similar loads.

I have found with Glocks that every single aftermarket internal part I have installed has either failed outright or failed to provide any advantage over the stock parts. In most cases the former is the norm.

There was thread I started a few months declaring that I was done with aftermarket Glock Parts. It had a good following of people with similar experiences. I posted it in response to a Brownell's 4lb trigger spring kit installed in both my guns. One failed and I took the other one out to prevent failure. Both replaced with the stock springs that had 5000+ rounds and still work perfectly.

Trigger jobs are a waste of time and only last for a few hundred rounds, after market barrels, for the most part, are unreliable, and the light weight Spring kits only last for a little while and then you get light strikes.

Nope, internal stock parts for me.

Now I do like my Dawson Sights and JP mag release button.

Randy

Artful

07-08-2014, 02:23 PM

Screw it. I'm a retard for not sticking to only bullseye loads. The fact that a smidge above start loads (.1) gr is irrelevant even though those loads are well within the normal load specs for the 45 acp cartridge. Usually I'm open to criticism and input, but there is no way I'm accepting "Stick to a standard load for cartridge" when I can't even load a standard load with normal 45 acp powders (other than Bullseye) without issues.

All data deleted.

That was mature - I thought you were above that sort of thing.

Love Life

07-09-2014, 09:36 AM

I didn't lose any sleep over it.

TXGunNut

07-13-2014, 01:51 AM

This truly disappoints me, wish I'd discovered the thread earlier. It's quite obvious Glock made a poor spring choice in the 41 and that surprises me.
A little background: more than a few years ago in a land very close to here an early Colt Delta Elite 10mm showed up on the police range, at the same time an early Glock 10 mm was on hand along with a nice pile of 10mm ammo.
In the interest of full disclosure I'm a Colt man; was carrying one then, still do. To be quite honest that day was an eye-opener. I decided right then and there that the Colt was going to beat itself to death shooting 10mm loads. At the time, folks more learned than I disagreed with me. I think time has proved them wrong. The Glock was actually quite pleasant to shoot by comparison, when we field-stripped it the reason was obvious. The Glock had the superior spring system.
That's what bothers me about LL's 21, I know Glock knows better. I have no idea why a 21 wasn't equipped with springs to handle full-power loads, it truly should have been. Full-power loads are the norm for the 40 S&W, not functioning with them is unacceptable.
Yes, I'm an unabashed Colt 1911 fanboy. But I also know the Glock is an awesome gun, in many ways better than the 1911.

I'm sorry folks didn't understand or appreciate your efforts, Love Life. I'm glad you got your 21 performing like it ought to.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter

07-13-2014, 10:33 AM

Yes, I am disappointed too. Would have loved to see the write up on the gun...

9.3X62AL

07-13-2014, 04:09 PM

The best way to receive ongoing commentary on any subject in any thread is for the peanut gallery to not disincentivize the posting in the first place.

scattershot

07-13-2014, 09:02 PM

+1! ..

W.R.Buchanan

07-14-2014, 12:21 PM

I hope no one thinks I was Dis-Incentivizing LL's posts. My posts were and are only meant to increase awareness and convey my own experience.

The only point I made that could have been taken as "harsh criticism," were ones relating to LL"s choice of loads for his gun. He had good reliability with one load and with the other, not. In my mind that kind of answers the question, and blaming the mfg for the guns inability to digest only one of his handloads essentially puts a negative about the gun out there that is not really fair to the gun. I say this because virtually every gun shows preference to certain loads. Some less so than others.

The point is,,, others have already chimed in and said they wouldn't buy the gun based on this thread. This is not fair to the gun or the mfg. which is one of the best out there.

I think that we,,, and I mean a lot of people here,,,get way too touchy about responses to their postings. Taking immediate offense when someone posts something after you read it once is not productive. Half the time people don't understand what they read in the first place, so posting a snotty response only fuels the fire with no positive outcome.

This is a discussion forum and if you think you are going to get nothing but agreement,, you're probably wrong about that.

I have been proven wrong more than once on this forum and I have the ability to accept that, state that I was wrong,,, and move on.

Puffing up like a toad when someone doesn't agree with you is not conducive of good discussion.

This would be a good lesson for all of us to look at.

By the way, I fired 100+ rounds of my reloads in my G21 yesterday at an IDPA shoot in Santa Barbara CA and had no malfunctions. I placed 3rd in 2 of 4 stages, with 20 shooters. 5.7 gr of W231 and 230gr ball plated boolit.

Randy

robertbank

07-14-2014, 01:03 PM

Hey Randy congrats on your performance. Try 5.4 gr under that same bullet for slightly less recoil. The polymer guns (Glock & M&P) are slowly taking over CDP division. They are lighter and far more reliable than a match tuned 1911. The latter generally get tuned to the point where they won't run. The lighter guns seem to do better in IDPA. Some say they can be driven faster.

Take Care

Bob

Love Life

07-14-2014, 02:44 PM

Randy- I tested AA#7, WSF, 800X, and AA#5 all with a 230 gr ball boolit. The gun failed to cycle from the start loads all the way to the max loads.

So, I dropped the powder charges, sometimes up to 1.2 gr below listed start charges, and the gun still failed to feed. It failed to pick rds up from the magazine, slide rode over the case body as it was feeding , etc.

I tested a bunch of powders using the scientific method to eliminate variables.

Conclusion: MY Glock 41 fails to function due to slide cycling issues using 1.2 gr below the start charge all the way up to the max charge with a ball profile bullet with 4 different powders. It also had the same slide cycling issues with Factory, I say again FACTORY, Remington ammunition.

W.R.Buchanan

07-14-2014, 11:30 PM

LL: I'm sorry I offended you, and it was not my intention.

It sounds like you now hate my guts and are unwilling to accept my apology,,, so I will just end off.

Randy

Love Life

07-14-2014, 11:34 PM

Never said I hated you and no apology is/was needed. Clashes happen.

W.R.Buchanan

07-14-2014, 11:34 PM

Thanks, this is the biggest problem with internet postings. It never would have happened in person.

Randy

Love Life

07-14-2014, 11:40 PM

I'll be trading it in for a 3rd Gen Glock 21 tomorrow and call it a day. I really wanted this pistol to be awesome and amazing. I had high hopes for it. I probably just got a bad one from Glock and I dang sure won't stop buying Glock handguns in the future.

It's not even worth the effort of mailing in the warranty card and sending it to Glock.

On the upside, it is quite accurate.

A lot is lost in translation on the internet. I cleaned up my last post.

9.3X62AL

07-14-2014, 11:56 PM

Generation 4 Glocks seem to have a lot more issues than the previous 3 ideations. They got it right early and often. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm in no hurry to be a Glock Gen4 guinea pig.

W.R.Buchanan

07-15-2014, 12:01 AM

Love Life

07-15-2014, 12:18 AM

LL: Sorry about that gun, At least you could buy one, We can't even get them in CA. That said,,, I have not been a fan of the Gen 4 guns either. I just don't like the grip texture, and they also have that mag disconnect thing.

I bet you'll have better luck with the G21.

Randy

I'm thinking I'll be happier with the 3rd Gen 21 as well. I'm just flustered as can be over this pistol.

At least with the 21 I can swap in a 10mm and 50 GI down the road.

If Glock works the bugs out later on, I may reinvestigate the Glock 41 as it handled very well and the accuracy was very pleasing.

Catshooter

07-15-2014, 01:30 AM

Sorry to hear of your troubles LL. I too am not all that impressed with the gen 4s.

Randy, what mag disconnect thing? No such thing in any Glock I'm pretty sure. The gen 4s have a reversible mag release, is that what you're thinking of?

Cat

Jupiter7

07-15-2014, 01:33 AM

I'm thinking I'll be happier with the 3rd Gen 21 as well. I'm just flustered as can be over this pistol.

At least with the 21 I can swap in a 10mm and 50 GI down the road.

If Glock works the bugs out later on, I may reinvestigate the Glock 41 as it handled very well and the accuracy was very pleasing.

When you get the 50GI, let us all know. It's at the top of my "things I want but don't need" list. Of course, part of that package for me would be the guncrafter Ind. 1911 to match.

freebullet

07-15-2014, 01:56 AM

What happened to the review? I would like to read it but it appears as if much was deleted from this . What kind of problems did you encounter?

garym1a2

07-15-2014, 08:22 AM

I would recommend getting one of those Gen 4 Glock Guide Rod Adapters to allow you to use standard type guide rods and recoil springs. I have one on my Gen 4 Glock 35. It would allow you to get a spring kit and try out all the different weights of springs till you got one that works. Just find someone that makes G41 guide rods as they are different than G21.

robertbank

07-15-2014, 09:18 AM

I don't want to appear tpo be a Glock hater because I am not but I am a very big fan of the M&P, a pistol with all the good qualities of the Glock without any of the bad. I use my M&P's in IDPA with reasonably good results both in SSP and ESP. My problem is I want a 45acp version. My thought being I could shoot it in all three divisions by down loading the cartridge and or by using 250 gr lead boolits which is the same thing really. The M&P in 45acp has had none of the issues LL incurred and is rather highly regarded.

Love Life have you considered looking at a M&P in .45acp. It maybe the answer you are looking for.

Take Care

Bob
ps While the M&P 45acp is on my list of wants so is the 9MM C.O.R.E. model with a slide mounted optic......decisions decisions

scattershot

07-15-2014, 10:00 AM

Following that line of thought, I have a M&P 45c, and I love it. Check one out before you buy, you might like it.

jmort

07-15-2014, 10:52 AM

M&P may not last as long as a Glock, but with the Apex trigger, there is nothing better out there in my opinion.

robertbank

07-15-2014, 10:59 AM

M&P may not last as long as a Glock, but with the Apex trigger, there is nothing better out there in my opinion.

And you base that on what?

Bob

jmort

07-15-2014, 11:08 AM

Just reports from heavy users on ninja sites. That is why it is a qualified remark, i.e. "may" followed by opinion that the Apex trigger makes it the best of the best.

Love Life

07-15-2014, 02:16 PM

I've looked at the M&P, but I am firmly entrenched in the mindset that my plastic pistols need to be Glock. Unless this next one sucks as well.

Hunter

07-15-2014, 04:40 PM

The Glock 41 is Glock's new 45 acp pistol. That is all.

Very thorough review.

Love Life

07-15-2014, 04:45 PM

I worked very hard on it! :bigsmyl2:

Love Life

07-15-2014, 08:26 PM

A quick follow up here. The gun shop talked me into a gen 4 Glock 21. I reckoned "why not" and it would give me a direct comparison. I took it out, and it ate all my reloads. Even some questionable ones I loaded back in 2007.

Glock happiness has been restored in my life. Now if I can just quit guilting myself for not buying the pair of Tech-9's for $300 out the door...

IllinoisCoyoteHunter

07-15-2014, 09:58 PM

I really enjoy my 21.

Lefty Red

07-16-2014, 05:54 AM

M&P may not last as long as a Glock, but with the Apex trigger, there is nothing better out there in my opinion.

I never understood this. You take a $450 weapon and then add a $125 trigger to it to make it more like a $525 weapon. And I like M&Ps! :) But I have a Gen 4 G19 and G17.

Jerry

garym1a2

07-16-2014, 06:01 AM

With the M&P don't for get to also get the Apex extractor.
M&P may not last as long as a Glock, but with the Apex trigger, there is nothing better out there in my opinion.

robertbank

07-16-2014, 09:04 AM

I never understood this. You take a $450 weapon and then add a $125 trigger to it to make it more like a $525 weapon. And I like M&Ps! :) But I have a Gen 4 G19 and G17.

Jerry

Jerry for most the advantages implied by the Apex parts only applies if the shooter wants a lighter wallet. Yes aftermarket parts can make the gun feel better but whether it has much affect outside of the competition environment is doubtful. Folks buy Glocks then spend $250 give or take to replace the barrel in order to shoot lead, replace the plastic sights ($100) to get something more sturdy and play with the springs to lighten their wallet such is the nature of those of us who tinker. None of which are necessary but we do it anyway.

Take Care

Bob

Lefty Red

07-16-2014, 09:09 AM

robertbank

07-16-2014, 09:19 AM

Bob

True, next to the Ruger 10/22, the Glock is like a $525 canvas which folks can build up a personal firearm.

But the Apex a Trigger is made to give the MP a "Glock like trigger" I just don't see the logical behind that. I think the MP has a very usable trigger as is. And it makes me scratch my head when someone buys one model of firearm and then made it fell or work like another.

Jerry

Yes you are right. I traded for a M&P .40cal that has the Apex trigger installed. I really don't like it but it does shorten the reset substantially and for competition it is an advantage. While the trigger may look like a Glock trigger it is certainly an improvement over anything I have seen in a Glock. The FSS trigger from Apex is more like a 1911 trigger with a silly safety shoe installed. While the FSS trigger provides a shorter reset I am not talented enough to gain any advantage over my 9MM M&P with the regular trigger installed. I am sure there are those who have the ability to take advantage of the feature, I am not one of them. My splits are no faster using the FSS trigger nor are they slower.

One part worth buying for the M&P from Apex is their striker block. It is far more rounded and does improve the feel of the M&P trigger and for some that is important.

Take Care

Bob

Love Life

07-16-2014, 01:12 PM

The trigger that came on my Glock 21 is actually very smooth. I am impressed with this one.

Now that Glock has redeemed themselves in my eyes, I will take a moment to call all the other plastic pistols wannabes!! :bigsmyl2:

I held a M&P yesterday and it actually felt pretty nice.

garym1a2

07-16-2014, 02:31 PM

Most USPSA competitors that I know that went from Glock to M&P for the better grip had extractor issues and went back to either the Glocks or the CZ75's.

Hunter

07-17-2014, 12:11 AM

Jerry for most the advantages implied by the Apex parts only applies if the shooter wants a lighter wallet. Yes aftermarket parts can make the gun feel better but whether it has much affect outside of the competition environment is doubtful. Folks buy Glocks then spend $250 give or take to replace the barrel in order to shoot lead, replace the plastic sights ($100) to get something more sturdy and play with the springs to lighten their wallet such is the nature of those of us who tinker. None of which are necessary but we do it anyway.

Take Care

Bob

Solid words of wisdom brother.

9.3X62AL

07-17-2014, 03:54 AM

Glocks are livable. Mine have all been excellent, but the few I ran into at work that stunk REALLY did so, to the point of putrefaction. CZ-75s are SUPERB, and are made of ordnance steel--as the gods of conflict intended.

Love Life

07-17-2014, 10:28 AM

I reckon I need to get me one of those CZ 75 pistols after all the good press I have see on them.

robertbank

07-17-2014, 10:39 AM

Love Life the CZ 75 Shadow Line takes handgun artwork to another level. Where can you find a combat pistol that can substitute for a target pistol with the reliability of a '55 Chevy all wrapped up in a pistol. The basic CZ 75 is an outstanding firearm and it's upscale breather-in just get a little better.

Take Care

Bob

Love Life

07-17-2014, 11:12 AM

The accu-shadow looks legit, but a bit spendy if I do say so myself.

robertbank

07-17-2014, 12:07 PM

Yes but you need not go that far up the food chain. The 75B is an excellent pistol in itself and is just as accurate. You will be surprised how accurate these guns are with a grip that was made in heaven.

Take Care

Bob

9.3X62AL

07-17-2014, 01:11 PM

My example is a box-stock 75B in 40 S&W. It is the most accurate 40 S&W pistol I have ever fired, period. Its ergonomics put both Glock and SIG-Sauer in the shade. IIRC, I paid about $450 OTD for it 6-7 years ago. Best pistol for the money I've ever bought, though Glock usually cops that distinction.

W.R.Buchanan

07-17-2014, 01:37 PM

My first major power auto pistol was a CZ40 P in .40S&W. I liked it a lot and it was accurate. It was a DA/SA Decocker and was simply too complicated to learn the basics of pistol handling with. I sold it for twice what I paid for it and got a G35.

Mind you, I could go back now and shoot that gun well because I now have the basics down, it was just too complicated to learn with.

The CZ75's can be ran DA or SA cocked and locked like a 1911. The ergonomics of that gun are excellent and the reliability is alos excellent.

CZ makes good stuff.. I just bought 2 CZ82's last week and will be doing a write up on those soon.

Randy

TXGunNut

07-17-2014, 10:47 PM

This is a discussion forum and if you think you are going to get nothing but agreement,, you're probably wrong about that.-W.R.Buchanan

It's hard to learn anything from someone who agrees with you on all points. Some folks around here are a bit blunt but it's all good, I appreciate constructive input and the time it takes to give me a reality check. I'm not a Glock fan but always look forward to learning more about them. I know enough about them to have recommended them several times to new shooters. I've shot more than a few, even owned and carried one for a few years.

Good job at the IDPA shoot!