Colt Trooper MK III target 101

[40-82 hiker]

I am opening this post back up to thank all for their CORRECT advice to keep the Colt Trooper Mk III, and advice to change to Wolff springs. Please see current post # 22 for update.


This is NOT a WTS post, but asking advice for such. Knowledge of revolvers very limited...

I'm in the same boat as many, as I have to keep my shooting sport self supporting due to my medical problems. I am asking for some help to get this put together. I know very little about revolvers (pricing, models, etc), and asking about some advice on price of both guns I could expect, and best way to get to the end (get rid of Colt, get S&W Model 14 in same condition, or very close to it).

Gun I want to sell/trade/auction: Colt Trooper MK III .357 Magnum, certainly less than a few hundred rounds ever fired through it. LGS says it is 98%, certainly with light (?) cylinder drag mark, but that's about it. 6" barrel. No box. My father bought this revolver some decades ago and fired it but little with me.

Gun I want: S&W Model 14 with 3 Ts and target stocks, 6" barrel. In as like condition as Colt as possible.

I have looked at values in book, but that does not tell me much, really. I have been looking in LGSs for some time, and never see either revolver (haven't looked in many, but really can't anyway).

How much could I expect to get for the Colt? There are so many different "versions" of the Model 14 I'm not even sure where to start there. Price? Which model would be a good one to get?

Guess I'm wanting to concentrate more on the Model 14 here...

One option: I can sell the Colt through LGS, and lose commission. (?)

Thoughts and answers would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

Photos not good if posted for sale, but gives the idea for this post... Didn't even wipe off prints!

108434

108435

[brassrat]

You sure you want to?

[Frank46]

I've an old trooper III in 357 and it would be almost the last one to get rid of. Very accurate with S&B ammo. And I've a K38 also. Wanted one for years, also very accurate. Would think you'd be loosing money on that deal.back when ebay allow it I bought a spare barrel,cylinder and a lot of internal parts for the colt. Frank

[40-82 hiker]

I've an old trooper III in 357 and it would be almost the last one to get rid of. Very accurate with S&B ammo. And I've a K38 also. Wanted one for years, also very accurate. Would think you'd be loosing money on that deal.back when ebay allow it I bought a spare barrel,cylinder and a lot of internal parts for the colt. Frank

Looks like I might be going in the wrong direction? This is why I started this post...

Just always wanted a Model 14, and I'm in a position to have to sell one to buy one. If I had money left over, so the better. Still like to have one...

However, new direction: What's the list of mods needed to bring the Colt up to best accuracy potential?

Thanks,
Bob

[GLL]

Although I am a big S&W fan I would keep Dad's Trooper and save up for a Model 14 !

Nice S&W Model 14's are not that difficult to find although prices are rising.

This Single-Action-Only target version was very reasonable. Patience is the key !
http://www.fototime.com/45AEDF4F01AB411/large.jpg

Jerry

[40-82 hiker]

Although I am a big S&W fan I would keep Dad's Trooper and save up for a Model 14 !

Nice S&W Model 14's are not that difficult to find although prices are rising.

This Single-Action-Only target version was very reasonable. Patience is the key !
http://www.fototime.com/45AEDF4F01AB411/large.jpg

Jerry

Think I'm getting the idea about now. :)

[slughammer]

However, new direction: What's the list of mods needed to bring the Colt up to best accuracy potential?

Why are you asking this question? Is there something wrong with the accuracy of the colt? What accuracy issue are you having?

[smkummer]

I am A Colt collector and shooter. I really like the original V spring action of the Officer model match and Pythons. They shoot well and lock up solid. I was to understand that is why they shot so good. So I never gave the MKIII or later MKV actions much look. Then when the opportunity to buy a Trooper MKIII 6 in. came along for about $475 5 months ago, I pulled the trigger as someone paid me that for a holster worn 4in. MKIII. I took it to the range and it hit the 16" plate at 100 yards as well as the Python, meaning if I did my part it was a easy hit. That is with a plus P 38 load sending a 158 SWC out at 900 FPS. So I dropped in a reduced .357 load going out at 1100 FPS and set that same plate out at 200 yards, aimed where I think it should be and bang (pause) ting! On the first shot! I emptied the remaining 5 loaded cartridges and put the gun away that day( no way to top that). The friend that bought the 4 in. was amazed. In reality I can hit about 50% of the plate at 200 yards as my sight completely covers the target. If I sighted it in(raised the rear sight), and had a sight picture, my hits would improve. The point here is the MKIII from my experience shoot very well and it kind of shoots holes in the theory that a gun as to lock up like a python to shoot well. Smiths, Dan Wesson and Rugers can and do shoot as well, sometimes better and sometimes worse. Just buy a the Smith mod.14 and DONT sell the trooper. Just my .02 here. Oh and a buddy of mine shoots a K38 as well (ok, almost as well) as I shoot a officers model match.

[40-82 hiker]

Why are you asking this question? Is there something wrong with the accuracy of the colt? What accuracy issue are you having?


Wish the SA trigger pull was a little better. Don't shoot DA...

[Poygan]

I like the idea to keep the Colt and save for the S&W. Had a Mark III and sold it because I also had a Python at that time. My Mark III had as good a trigger as the Python.

[40-82 hiker]

I'm going to go the route with the Colt. Too much good advice to ignore. Let old "wishes" stay there... That's settled for good!

However, while it may not need much, it is "out of the box", and I do not know much about revolvers, as such. My 1911 NM and I have been friends for some decades, and I am truly happy with it. Not sure where to start with the Colt revolver, if anything at all. I need to work up a good target load (WCs ?), as the few hundred rounds this revolver has seen have been store bought 158 gr. SWCs I loaded long ago with BE. Sure the gun is too new for the trigger mechanism to smooth out, but I wish it was a little better.

This is a case of old dogs learning new tricks, and really appreciate the help. Really need to start at the beginning on this one...

Plenty of BE on hand due to my .45ACP target load, but have very few .357 M casings.

1) Need to get cases, so, .38 Spcl. or .357 Mag. for target loads? WC or SWC? Need to get a mold for the target boolit... If I go WC, how the heck do I get WC cases?

2) Size for cylinder throat or groove diameter?

3) Any trigger work to help it out?

Just want to get started off on a good foot...

Wish this post was now called: "Colt Trooper MK III target 101", or, "Target revolvers for idiots and Semi-auto shooters".

Thanks,
Bob

[HeavyMetal]

any good smith can adjust that SA pull on the Trooper, selling a 357 to buy a 38 special is a bad choice any day of the week.

I do understand the finanace side of the issue, but I really doubt you'll find much difference between the Two revolvers your asking about and you may find a need for 357 rounds in the future, meanwhile you can shoot 38's in the Trooper.

As I see it the Trooper is the win win here and a trigger job is a whole lot less money than a pistol!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

...snip...
Wish this post was now called: "colt trooper mk iii target 101", or, "target revolvers for idiots and semi-auto shooters".
Thanks,
bob
done.

[slughammer]

Sorry to hear about the SA pull, the only Colt I have is a detective special and the trigger is not an issue even for longer range shooting. Certainly you should get yours fixed.
I would find a smith with a decent reputation and ask them flat out how many Colt triggers has he worked on. Make decision from there, but good offhand shooting needs a trigger pull you're not fighting or guessing about.
I would skip the WC and go with a SWC or a RF, accuracy should be just as good as a WC.
Other guys with Colt dimensional experience will comment about the throats and groove dimensions. ( I accumulate S&W's)

[Guesser]

I have a MK III, great gun, and no where near as many were made as the M 14. Both are great guns but they are not comparable. Save and buy a 14, then you will have the best of both worlds.

[smkummer]

You can buy the bullseye or trapper spring kit for the MKIII and install it yourself. Its a lighter spring that is also supposed to work in double action also. Myself, I question if lighter springs will still make good ignition in double action. Also magnum primers in .357 may be harder to ignite. I believe they also include a lighter trigger return spring and that will required taking the sideplate off. The main coil spring can be change without taking the sideplate off. good luck A caution should be observed when working with the trigger/hammer of the MKIII action. I believe both parts are of a sintered metal with a surface hardness only. So stoning can remove the surface hardness and the part could be ruined.

[brassrat]

If you blast that old gun out with brake cleaner and then oil it up again, it will probably feel nicer. Of course, remove the stocks.

[Frank46]

The trooper III I have has the adjustment screw on the trigger behind the curve of the trigger. You can adjust the trigger with that. Tried it and could get a very light single action trigger. Actually too light for me. So readjusted it to more saner levels. Simpson's LTD have or had some K38's in single action only trigger setup and regular da/sa trigger. Frank

[9.3X62AL]

I have owned 4 of the Mk III Troopers, 2 each in 4" and 6" barrels. Mine weren't quite as refined as a Python, but were likely stronger and easily as accurate. I'm glad to read that you'll be retaining it. Strength level is at or slightly above that of an L-frame S&W 586/686. They don't get out of time with extensive double-action firing like the V-spring Colts did, either. All of their internal parts are MUCH more robust than those found in V-spring variants, and the mechanism is MUCH simpler. They weren't made for very long, and they are a real sleeper on the used gun market.

If it has had so few rounds through it, one good way to slick up the trigger stroke is to just SHOOT THE CRITTER.

[40-82 hiker]

I have owned 4 of the Mk III Troopers, 2 each in 4" and 6" barrels. Mine weren't quite as refined as a Python, but were likely stronger and easily as accurate. I'm glad to read that you'll be retaining it. (emphasis by Bob)

So many have educated me now on this issue, and it is greatly appreciated. I am working on a few select gun projects that must be self-supporting, and not knowing what I had in this case was a great mistake on my part. I was largely following the thoughts of a guy at our LGS, and he must have had a prejudice I missed.

I cannot state strongly enough how much I appreciate and benefit from the people here on Castboolits who give so willingly of their time and knowledge. I nearly slipped up on this one, but that is why I started the post as I did. Out of my league with revolvers and asking advice... Not a bad way to start!

The lack of brass availability has me aggravated again, as I just went through a process of getting some .45-70 and now get to do it again with the .357 Magnum. I have a post in S&S to exchange some new .45ACP for some .357 Magnum cases, but .45ACP cases on this site are as plentiful as grass. Little hope there... I'm okay with primers and BE for now (I had some LP primers on order, and changed them THIS AM to SP primers just before they shipped - that close!). Getting a mold is next, so guess I'll start out with a SWC. The cylinder throats will need addressing before I can figure out the sizing die size, but one step at a time...

Thanks for your post, and those of all others.

Bob

[Lance Boyle]

I think the ammo and component storm is slowly passing by now. When I couldn't buy .357 magnum brass I would go to walmart and buy some of the better priced .357 ammo. I really didn't want the ammo, I wanted the brass. I think the best I could do at the time was Federal 158 JHP's. All I really want to do is make 158 SWC loads in .357 brass. I skip the .38 spl cases as I don't want to change my dies that much and I get to skip the cylinder lead/soot rings.

I just backordered .357 starline brass at the starline website after hunting for it for over a year and not willing to pay some of the exorbitant prices sellers were asking. Unfortunately they only had that order window open for about half a day. It closed before 4pm yesterday and I only saw the email at 11am. I was on their notify me list for the product. Should have done that much sooner as they reportedly have it available about every 2 months. I bet the component suppliers are going to get half of this batch too so around July you might want to scour the big companies.

just a note, I would size my cast bullets to match/be just over the cylinder throat diameter. Slug your cylinders with some soft cast bullets to see where you want to be.

[40-82 hiker]

I want to update this original post of mine from almost 15 months ago so as to thank so many people for their help, and also to hopefully pass along some information that may be of use to someone in the future.

My progress with this Colt Trooper Mk III has been phenomenal to say the least, at least by my standards. It is amazing what I can think lacking knowledge about something, in this case the potential of a Colt Trooper Mk III. I just did not know...

To date, and a partial repeat: the Wolff springs made a HUGE difference to the trigger pull (I shoot only SA at this time, DA comes later)
Mold: H&G 50 Alloy: soft SOWWs w/2% tin Hence, this is a VERY soft boolit
sized: .359" This sizing diameter works very well, but it is a little smaller than the chamber throats. I guess obturation must be taking care of the difference, as this seems to go against the grain for an accurate revolver load.
Lube: Lyman Super Moly (all three grooves - I am going to change that, but "all" until I need to size some more)
WSP, 2.7grs. Bullseye
.38 special wadcutter casings only

I have been shooting more this year as part of my physical therapy, and I have become more familiar with this revolver than even my Colt .45ACP NM pistol. This has come as a great surprise to me.

My 50' offhand groups have shrunk to a very respectable size for me. :drinks: Due to my disabilities I have to shoot offhand with both hands, so I guess that is cheating by most standards for 50' offhand target shooting, but it is what it is. I know what many are truly so much more capable of with a pistol, so I am showing these targets only as means of describing where I have been able to go this revolver that I was, at one time, so seemingly eager to get rid of. [smilie=b: Oh boy... You guys saved me from myself on this one! So, here is where I am now with this revolver with slow-fire, 50 foot, offhand (two hands) shooting. These are some of my recent targets, and are fairly representative of what I can do on good days. I blame my success on a great load, and a really accurate pistol. AND, some really great advice... I'm still working on getting better and more consistent, but I'm really enjoying the journey.

Thanks again for all advice, as I really tried to listen to all.

All targets are NRA official standard 50' slow-fire pistol targets, six shots

148898148899 148900

[rintinglen]

Good Shooting! An awful lot of the kids shooting these days will never know the pleasure that a truly accurate revolver can give, being raised on black, plastic bottom feeders. It takes a bit of skill to coax the best out of them, but if you are good enough, boy howdy!

[woodbutcher]

:-D Hi 40-82 hiker.The cast boolit that I had super results with was the Lyman 358-156 GC HP.Got rid of the HP feature because I had problems with getting the boolits off of the HP pin.Good looking targets.IIRC,the powder charge was 3.5grns of 230 Winchester powder.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo