Slow Rust Bluing...interrupting the process

[webradbury]

Ok...so I just started rusting the parts to my krag project today and so far so good. My question is: could one stop the rusting process before they achieved the desired darkness and then start again at a later date without poor results? I ask only because I am being taken on a forced vacation to the beach all next week, and I don't know if I can finish these parts by then. Or would the parts be ok put up in a dry place for a week without any oil?

Thanks, Will

[Bent Ramrod]

I never had the nerve to do that, but somebody else on the Forum said it could be done without problems. Sorry, I don't remember the thread, but you might search "rust bluing" and see what you find.

[oldred]

I have done that several times and it will work just fine if you do a few things first before leaving it for an extended period. First wash it down with clean HOT water then make sure it's completely dry, do NOT oil it down! I have had people say it's best to oil it then thoroughly clean off the oil with a strong solvent before resuming the process but that did not work well at all for me when I tried it several years ago, since then I have on three different occasions left the parts for well over a week (the first time was over two months!) with no ill effects. The key is to make SURE all the rusting solution is washed off using hot water and a detergent then after thoroughly drying store the parts in a very low humidity environment.

[flounderman]

what rust bluing are you using? You can do a rifle with the mark lee in a couple of hours.

[webradbury]

Its American rust blue solution. Can't remember why I chose this solution but it seems to be working. I'm on my second pass. I just tried to post pics and can't for some reason....I used to be able to no problem. Sorry

[gnoahhh]

I should think you could get it done by the time you leave if you shake a leg. I usually only take a couple days start to finish after all the polishing is done. You are using a damp box, right? That will allow you a couple of "coats" per day if you have things going right.

[webradbury]

The first two passes were just hanging in my shop...I live in a sweatbox known as "North Carolina" and we have no shortage of humidity. The third pass I hung up this morning in a damp box hoping to speed up the process, although, I don't think the results will vary all that much. We'll see.

[webradbury]

Well, I let the parts sit in the damp box for six hours and they got a little darker but still about three or four passes to go. for some reason, I can't get the uniform fine layer of rust to form on the parts like I have seen in online pics. The parts just seem to darken slightly and then turn black when I boil them. When I pull them out of the pot, there is no fine layer of black oxide like I would like to see, just dark metal. While carding, I will see the dull matte surface change to a dark satin surface with little effort with the steel wool but still no black rust or "velvet rust" as some describe. I can feel the steel wool biting in to the oxide while it's removing it but it's so fine I can't see it. Oh, well...something is happening and I can't complain about the results so far. I even had an oops moment and got a little drop of solution (I think it was on my glove) on the tang of the receiver on the first pass and it made two little round pinkish red spots. These spots have blended in nicely on the third rusting and either they are gone or my eyes are too tired to see them right now.

Just tried posting pics again and still can't figure that out. I'll get pics of the finished product if I have to print them on post cards and mail them out!!! Will

[rking22]

I have observed that the harder the steel or the "higher" the alloy, the less "velvet" I seem to get. An old single shot 22 rifle barrel works up just like the books show. Whereas a Browning SA22 reciever processed more like you describe. By the by, that barrel blued just like the old Win 67 did, just like the books. Still draggin my feet on starting my next project for that very reason. Also live in plenty humid place and I seem to et most consistent results hanging outside under the porch roof, maybe the air circulation?? I think a sweat box might actually slow it down if today is any indication!

[oldred]

I have found the same thing, a soft (very soft!) CVA ml barrel had lots of "velvet" form while a 4140 Green Mountain barrel did little more than turn black and they were both done at the same time. I have also found that hardened 4140, such as used in receivers, is very difficult to rust blue at all and in fact after several attempts I gave up on my High Wall (yep this one is 4140HT) and just hot blued it.

[seaboltm]

All bluing process, rust or caustic salts, are sensitive to alloy types, heat treating, and hardness. I did a caustic salt blue job on a winchester 70 that had spent years in a pickup truck gun rack. The barrel had a spot that had work-hardened over the years from bouncing in the rack. That spot was slightly lighter in color than the rest of the barrel. Parkerizing is also sensitive to alloys, heat treating, and hardness. If you are getting the desired results, keep going.

As far as stopping and starting, no big deal. Just thoroughly clean the metal and let 'er rip. I like using solvents followed by boiling in a detergent for a few minutes.

[rking22]

I have a very specific question along this line. If the rust blued part has been oiled, can it then be degreased(boiled in simple green for instance) and restarted? Or would it need to be stripped to bare metal and restarted? What about a salt blued barrel that has some surface rust, would boiling convert the surface rust to better blend in? A friend has a M12 barrel assb in that state and I got to thinkin......uh-yeah, better when I don't start doin that :)
I guess it's a chemistry question, can the rust and convert process be restarted after oiling or does the oil stop the process "permanently"?
Any first hand experience or even thoughts based on the working of the process are welcome.

[johnson1942]

wash the rustblued part of in the sink in hot water and dishsoap. that will get it down to the rust blue then you can do the rerustblueing on top of clean rust blued metal. i have a muzzle loader barrel i rust blued last winter that is heavily oiled and next winter to make it look even better ill take it off the gun, wash with hot water and dish soap and rust some more ontop of what is done so far. i used rust brown and im going to get a bottle of blue rust and i find if i mix the two that the metal gets very dark in color and that is what im after.

[rking22]

Thanks, great to be able to tap into so much knowledge and experience here. I suspected that was the case but did'nt want to "reinvent the wheel" and maybe have guessed wrong. Like that's ever happened before :)
I'll be trying some more coats on that SA22 action this summer, thanks again.

[johnson1942]

boil it real good in water for a fair time period when you have all the coats on it you want. add a little bakeing soda to the water to stop the rust process. not so much that it boils all over the top of the pot and then what a mess to clean up on the stove.

[oldred]

Pardon me for a minor thread highjack here, minor because it is somewhat related.:hijack:

Johnson, Have you tried that "no card method" you described in the other post by using a slow rust formula? I just did another ML barrel (old CVA, VERY soft steel) using that method with Mark Lee Express Blue and it turned out beautifully! I know it goes totally against all the rules but as long as it works as good as it does I intend to continue to do it that way, I have yet to attempt it with a slow blue and I still need to try it on some alloy steel parts but so far it has been a really trick, thanks for sharing!

[johnson1942]

i dont know what a slow rust formula is but i use mark lee with out carding and have had very good results. i think the steels that are used in muzzle loaders can turn out better than sending it away for big buck and hotblueing. i just did a bunch of screws the other day and they are perfect. that muzzle loader i built last winter turned out real good. i am going to let the stock finish cure untill winter to rub it out then and same with the barrel. im going to rust color it some more next winter just to put the very best finish on it i can. ran the 335 pp bullet through my new chonograph to day and she goes consistantly 1600 ft. per sec. very accurate and very reliable. also im going to mix the rust blue with the brown to make it darker in color. i like my barrels real dark in color. might try my hand at a side lock muzzleloading hand gun. that would be real easy to rust color as the parts would fit in the oven real easy and in a pot to boil them afterwards.

[webradbury]

Well got back from vacation the other day and check my parts out and everything seems good. They are just how I left them. Before I left I did wash them with hot soapy water and dried them with compressed air. Restarting the process this morning I'll let you know how it goes. Will

[webradbury]

110704110705110706110707

Testing to see if I can post some pictures... appears to be working now. This is the polished parts up to the first boiling. More pics to follow when I get home.

[webradbury]

ok...thought they were posting but apparently not.

[webradbury]

110795
110796
110797
110798
110799
110800

Alright. These are the polished parts and the first boiling. They darkened more than I thought they would on the first pass.

[webradbury]

This is after the second pass...a little darker.110809110810110808

[webradbury]

110812110813110814110815

Ok fast forward three passes and I wasn't seeing the parts get much darker. I ordered Mark lee's Express blue solution and finished the parts in 1 hour... the stuff rocks!

[RustyReel]

Looks very nice for three passes. I don't get that high a luster from my rust blueing projects. How durable is that Mark Lee stuff??

[oldred]

How durable is that Mark Lee stuff??


I can answer that one since I too use this stuff a lot, it's as tough as it gets!!!! The Mark Lee rust solution is a true rust blue finish, some may say it's not quite as nice a finish as a slow rust formula or as easy to get it on blotch free but durability is not even a question! It's even tougher and more wear resistant than hot blue and while the first few coats of "Express" blue vs "Slow" blue may seem a bit "blotchier" (is that even a word???) I really can't tell much if any difference by the time it's finished.


The first coat usually starts out with a dramatic difference vs the bare metal then each succeeding coat seems to make less and less change until it reaches a point where it seems to make no change at all. This is where some folks mess up by stopping too soon, it may look dark enough after only 3 or 4 coats BUT dry it off good and look at it under bright sunlight before stopping! I usually go at least 6 or 7 coats depending on the metal type (steels with higher Nickel content take more) but those last few coats that may not look like they are doing much can make all the difference between an OK fantastic and a fantastic finish!

[webradbury]

It was three or four passes with the slow stuff and three with the Mark Lee blue. I found that if I put it on a little more wet than what was recommended, it rusted more uniformly. I will be using this one from now on.