Approx date when WW changed from lead?

[Rompin Ruger]

You experienced guys are all so patient with us. I've gotten great help from several folks!

I have another question

I was the lucky recipient of several buckets of "OLD" wheel weights. My recent attempts to secure them was a dismal failure with 3/4 of the bucket I got was junk...stick on, FE and ZN even plastic.

I asked my source when he secured these 3 buckets I got. His reply: 10-15 yrs ago.

I just spent 3 hrs in a storage room with a pincers squeezing 1/2 of ONE of 3 buckets to verify they were lead WW and not ZN or FE or ??? Gawd!

Does anyone have a time line/prox date on when the advent of ZN, FE and other junk started to slip into the mix?

Is 10-15 yrs ago far enough back to NOT WORRY and allow me to avoid the crunch test on the next 250#?

My hand hurts! :violin:

Thanks

[bangerjim]

The last 5 gal bucket full of COWW's I did (about 2 years ago) was 100% lead. They were so old all the clips had rusted off! I imagine they were a least 15 years old, as we do not get THAT much rain here in the desert.

I gave up on scrounging for weights at least a year ago when most ended up being NOT lead. I now mix my alloys to what I need them to be using pure and other alloys I get at the scrap yards. Some areas they still seem to be available, per all the "scored some lead today" stupid posts that pop up all the time. You just have to adjust according to your area in the country.

But Zn and Fe are everywhere today!

bangerjim

[Sensai]

The bad news is, I don't think ten or fifteen years is far enough back to not have to check. The good news is, you can cull out most of the iron (Fe) and honest zinc (zn) by their markings and save a bit of pliers work. I normally just do a visual inspection and get the trash and most of the iron and zinc out. Then I just monitor the pot while I'm heating the remaining wheel weights. If you're careful and keep the alloy stirred once it starts melting, you can easily get any that were missed while you pull out the steel clips. The only time you could have trouble doing this is if you are heating too fast to catch them before the melt gets too hot, or if you have some stuck on the bottom for some reason. As far as your original question, I know that I've seen zinc weights in the late sixties. I think that both zinc and stick-ons came in with the mag wheel craze.

[ssnow]

It's hard to say, much depends on the area. Here in the central states, the lead to trash percentage is still pretty good, but that won't be the case in other states where the push against and/or ban on lead weights have been in force longer.

In general, I'd expect a bucket 15 years old to be all, or at least 99% lead.

There is only one sure way to avoid zinc contamination, and that is to sort them before you smelt. It's rather time consuming and boring, but it works. You don't have to cut them in half, just a small pinch in a corner is all you need.......any more than that will give your hand a workout.

After sorting a few buckets, you will be able to visually identify most of them, and will only need the cutters to verify a few. The point is, it can be done much faster once you have some time doing it. I sit in a comfortable chair, dump out a bunch on the table, and quickly sort them into piles.......the clip-on, stick-on, steel, zinc, and trash. Then throw them into the appropriate bucket.

[lylejb]

I don't think there was any one specific date to look for. I think the Euro imports started before American cars, then California adopted the rule. It has since creeped to other states, and manufactures have largely changed over.

Of course, it's the old wheel weights you see in the buckets. So the real question becomes how many years will it take for all the old tires on the road to be changed.

And by the way, stick-on's are not junk. The older ones are soft lead, nearly pure. If you don't want them, save them and trade them. Many here would put them to use.

[Bosshaug]

And by the way, stick-on's are not junk. The older ones are soft lead, nearly pure. If you don't want them, save them and trade them. Many here would put them to use.

Just an FYI, some of them are TIN, which is very valuable!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Rompin Ruger,

The change over is happening as we speak.

Califunnyia had a mandatory change over the first of the year about 3 years ago, while here in Ideeeeeho the lead alloy WW are still legal and in use.

So, it will depend on the company and what they order and the state.

The very large tire and wheel retailer my youngest son manages a store for, had to put all opened boxes of WW out for recycling while the up-opened boxes were picked up and shipped to stores out of Califunnyia when the change happened.

Any tire store that has any number of transit customers will have a mix of used WW, but the chances of lead alloy WW is much better here then it would be closer to the stupid states.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Rompin Ruger]

Thanks, Guys!

Many good comments as I expected to find here! Thank you!

I know the stick on are softer (pure?) lead, but I have a bit of pure lead. I hadn't gotten on here when I obtained a local bucket of WW and paid $5 for it... my, oh, my... FE and ZN galore... stuff that weighed nothing and would break in half... and a TON of stick on...some of which were also marked FE and ZN!

Out of all the good comments, I think I will save more blisters and just do visual inspections... I was very confident in what I had recently as they were marked FE and ZN... there were some we crunched... and didn't budge that I chucked.

Never thought about imports perhaps being ahead of us on the NO-LEAD thing...

I just sat there sweating like a banshee today and raising blisters thinking, "10 or 15 yrs? Wonder if I have to sit here and do this for the next couple weeks to be sure or not?"

I knew this crew would have good answers... When I smelt them down, I'll take my thermometer along and when it hits that transition stage, i'll start skimming clips and if any are floating, I'll remove them as possible steel or worse, Zinc that would eventually melt and hose up the works!

Thanks, Gents!

[ssnow]

Many, and I would go so far as to say "most", steel and zinc weights are marked Fe and Zn. However, be aware that not all of them are marked, and some of these unmarked weights are similar in shape to other lead weights. If you miss a steel weight, it is no problem as it will not melt at temperatures you will be using.

If you melt A zinc weight, no problem. Include too many in that melt and you have an issue.

It is true that if you keep your temperature below the melting point of zinc, then you can skim it out with the clips. Many guys get by just fine with this method, as they monitor temperature, and are smelting smaller batches.

This is not really an option for me, as I have a large pot and a powerful burner. It will get hot enough to melt zinc weights on the bottom before they can float to the top due to all the lead weights on top of it.

But again, with just a little sorting time under your belt, carefully testing any you are uncertain of, you will soon be able to visually identify the vast majority, and the process will become much faster.

[fredj338]

They have been making steel & zinc ww for more than 6-7 yrs. it varies a lot by location though.

[Rompin Ruger]

As the realtors say: Location. Location. Location. There were in VA... what 15 yrs ago would have been relatively more rural, but around fredricksburg, va.

I have about a 3qt cast iron bail pot I'll be using to melt/smelt. I have a 30K BTU Camp Stove I'm going to use to melt and will just let it take a while longer so's not to get it too hot on the bottom, combined with visual inspection. Since 10-15 yrs pre-dates fredj338's suggestion of marking the past 6-7 yrs, I could have lots of unmarked...

Some I crunched were obviously HARDER to dent than others... Mostly the much larger weights...3 1/2" and up... but they still showed indents from the took jaws.

Again, thanks!!!

[Hickory]

I have x'ed wheel weights off as a source of aquiring lead.
My primary source now is the back stops of shooting ranges.
It's been more than 20 years since I mined my back stop.
Might do that when it cools off in the fall.

[Rompin Ruger]

Understood, Hickory,

Me too on WW. As shared, my recent enterprise to find WW locally resulted in long hours of sorting thru horrid crud and finally just getting 5-10# of lead WW... nada mas.

This deal came up in a "trade" and since these WW were much older, from a very distant area/era, I felt it was worth the "risk". Just trying to get a handle on if/when FE and ZN started to show up in the "system".

If I reading the advice above correctly, there is no set time when "other metals" showed into the system, and imports may have had "other" metal WW long before we started to switch, so it's a '**** shoot' and vigilance is required.

[RogerDat]

I found purchase of an extra long handled pair of diagonal cutters reduced the hand strain by reducing the force required to nip the edges. I think wearing thin work gloves over the nitrile gloves helped a bit too. I would not want to do more than one bucket at a sitting but one was not too bad.

Lead WW's are in effect the printers lead of our time. Once very common, use declined and eventually it became a rare "score" to find a stash of it. I like to think that by rescuing todays ww's we are building the rare find for the next generation. Another excellent reason I can give the wife about why she has to put up with those buckets, yep it's for the future generations of America not hoarding ;-)

[Rompin Ruger]

Nice philosophy, there RD!

Ain't hording...it's preserving HISTORY for future generations!

:bigsmyl2:

[mold maker]

Once upon a time, in long long ago, there were free wheel weights to be had for the asking. You could buy 22 LR in a 50 rnd box, at the grocery store, and even dime stores sold guns.
The times are achanging. WWs are mostly iron and zinc. 22 LR can't be found, and there are no more dime stores, that even sell cap guns.
No point in longing for the good ole days, as they are long gone.
I still collect what WWs I can find, and raid the berms for range scrap, but the days of free lead, are soon to be, a distant memory.
We either get what we can for now, and hopefully some for the future, or resign ourselves to what we can buy.
For those of you who find sorting, too big a job, thanks for leaving them for us with limited funds.
As far as sorting goes, If you still have eyesight that can read the markings under all that grime have at it. I use a common pair of old household pliers. You only need to imprint tooth marks on the lead. If it doesn't mark, it's junk. No need to make a deep dent or cut. It is time consuming, and hard on the hands, but it's sure and free. The same method works for stick on weights which are also made of iron and zinc. I haven't found any of the tin stick weights mentioned above, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Get them while you still can. Like everything else, nothing lasts forever, and lead WWs will soon be gone.

[Rompin Ruger]

I know I'm getting old, but I "used" to have a source for printers type And WW! As you say, MM, in a land long, long ago!

Now that I've come on these 3 buckets of old, rusty WW, and several hours of squeezing a short handle set of nippers, I got blisters and sweat was a rollin... so it dawned on me, "why not ask the smart guys on CB??!"

Alas, I know 10-15 yrs, thru all the good replies here, isn't enough to just "guess" they're ok...still have to sort and check!

Thanks to one and all for the input, suggestions and guidance

[RogerDat]

.....
Thanks to one and all for the input, suggestions and guidance

Not sure thanks are in order. You scored 3 big buckets of "vintage" ww's, and lore has it that back in the good old days ww's were a richer alloy. Most of us are just helping you get blisters and hand cramps out of lead envy. ;-) Not me of course! I have nothing but your best interest at heart. :mrgreen:

[Rompin Ruger]

[smilie=l:Lead Envy! OMG...that is funny right there! I guess there are WORSE types of envy!!!

I'd posted to friends via email I was searching for a Pro Melt pot, reading here, that they were pretty good compared to my 10# Lee I had & used YEARS ago... till I got that pot cranking making 45 Colt big bullets, it was pretty much empty...then mold would cool! Hate when that happens...especially to me when I'd not cast for 20 yrs!

One person responded they had the pro melt they used to make and sell lures and sinkers and such along the coastal shops in VA... Age took away some of the motivation and he was willing to sell. We had to negotiate on his desired price, and to sweeten the deal, I got the aforementioned 3 buckets of older WW and some other boot!

It was a long 4.5 hr drive with 3000 of my best friends down into VA around B'more... but I think I made out. Never expected to have Lead Envy arise though...

Good one, RD! :bigsmyl2:

[CPL Lou]

Another way to sort through is to tap the weights on a piece of steel.
If it rings, it's zinc or steel, lead weights have a dull sound.
Any that sound 'off' go to the side to be checked with wire cutters.
Speeds things up dramatically !

CPL Lou

[Rompin Ruger]

CPL-L,

Ive heard dropping them to tell...but I quickly figured out it depends if they fall on the clip or body how they sound... never tried tapping them... I bet there is a "technique" to that process to be good.

I got a wild hair and went over and set up my camp stove and propane bottle, melted down 2 pots full of weights I'd sorted thru... got about 49 # of ingots out that are fluxed and cleaned. Still have 2 1/2 buckets to go! I visually examined them all and crimped a lot that were of an odd shape...they all left a ding mark in the corner, so in the pot they went...even found some stamped HONDA...I really crimped them to be sure! [smilie=b:

Got some advice thru guys here via email on how to save on propane... 2 melts really ate up some propane in a tank! I've learned some tricks to employ next time, soon as I can get some flashing to make wind breaks and a lid for my pot!

[Don Fischer]

I found that I could melt lead below the melting point of zinc and the zinc weight's float to the top with wheel weight clips. I imagine iron ones will too. Both are lighter than lead.

[Rompin Ruger]

Yes, Don, I've read that often. I've been advised to melt less of the WW in the pot at one time... as they melted, I'd add more as the level dropped but was encouraged to NOT do that... as it prevents the ZN or FE to float and be caught... I did manage to keep my thermometer buried deep in the pot to watch the temp of what was turning liquid...and kept it below 625*...but that is no guarantee I'm sure... thermometers can lie!

Lots of "technique" to even the simplest of things that some of you take fore-granted after a bunch of years

[Patrick L]

I don't have a specific date, but here in NY it seems to be within the last 5-6 years. I've cast since the late 80s. I used to scrounge weights every 6-7 years and easily get enough to last me about that long. I never saw a zinc weight, and the steel were very rare. Then in 2012 it was about that time again, and that was when I learned about this new dilemma we are all in. Since then I have been scrounging and sorting nonstop. Currently 25-30% lead in a bucket is a good yield in my area. I figure the percentages will keep going down. I have scored a few "older" buckets that I would guess are at least 10+ years old. These have gone as much as 90%+, but that's rare.

[Rompin Ruger]

Thanks Patrick,

Late winter this year, I cobbled up a bucket from the garage I used... and I'd guess 1/4 was stick on. I didn't/don't need soft lead.

Another 1/2 was FE and ZN, but they were clearly stamped.

Here I learned that it takes a small indentation with pliers or snips of varied sorts to show an impression. I believe my reading here says if you can make any impression on the WW it's not ZN or FE??

I have a 6" cutter that I use and it made a indentation in everything in my "trade load" so far, but I'm not even thru one bucket yet...

I'll try to get some pics of how I'm doing it so you "seasoned vets" can critique I'm checking properly!

[ssnow]

What is being suggested is that you don't have to make a big cut in the weight to make the determination. Just a small nip on a corner. Just enough for you to see that you can cut the weight. It will save your hand from becoming so fatigued.

Take a zinc and steel weight and try to cut them with your cutters. The cutters simply will not cut them. You can make a dent in the paint or powder coat, but you are not going to cut them. Now cut a lead weight. You can easily cut/dent/scar the lead weight, you can easily cut it in half if you so desired. But there is no need to cut it in half, or make a large cut at all. Just enough to determine that you can cut it.

Most of the steel weights will be marked Fe. Of those that are not marked, most will have riveted clips. If you miss a steel weight, no big deal, as it will not melt at the temperatures you will be using. It will be floating with the clips and can be skimmed out.

Most zinc weights are marked ZN. However, some styles have no markings. The problem with these is that they will have the same or similar shape as some lead weights. You will soon recognize them visually though, provided that you are sniping any weight in question.

A common weight here is labeled MC. The zinc version is labeled MCZ. It looks just like the usual MC weight, with the exception of the added "Z".

By taking the time to hand sort the weights now, you will learn to visually identify most of them. This will come in handy later when you find buckets for sale.

When you are sorting, you will also gain a feel for the weight, a feel for how heavy it should be. A zinc weight will feel light for its size.

Don't misunderstand this, I'm not saying I can just walk out to the shop and pick out a zinc weight by how heavy it is at anytime, but when you are actually in the process of sorting, repeatedly handling the weights, the zinc weights will be lighter and you will notice it.


Soon you will be able to sort them much faster. While it may always be a time consuming boring process, it will become faster and easier than it is for you now.

[bannor]

Since I realized how much realistic/valuable training can be done with laserlyte, airsoft, and .22lr, I no longer bother with nearly as much centerfire shooting. It's becoming a rich man's pastime. Of the 5x I've had to draw a gun, nobody made me fire. So I have just been concentrating on speed of ccw draw. No live firing practice is needed for just draw speed.

[mold maker]

If using the thunk versus tink test, a magnet will further determine the iron from the zinc. just avoid the clip with the test.

[RogerDat]

I started out pretty slow but as others have pointed out it gets faster with practice. My normal routine is throw a handful from the bucket out, pick out the ones I can see are no good. Swing them past a magnet, if they stick they go in the steel pile if not magnetic then the zinc pile. Then little nip on each of the rest. I have found using a box lid as a sorting tray on my lap allows me to sit comfortable and work with the materials more rapidly. Just look, test, toss next. Goes pretty fast. Wear coveralls pant legs get sort of filthy dirty as mom used to say.

I started out I could not tell one from the other except with the nip method. Now I snag about 80% of the scrap out just by appearance.
Steel will have letters or numbers stamped into the metal, lead they tend to be raised letters and numbers from being part of the mold. Just another thing to look for.

[Patrick L]

Honestly, I check every single weight in every bucket I get. I found I can go pretty quick. I use cutters, but often I can tell the steel and zinc by appearance alone. As previous posters said, experience will teach you a lot. Every single piece I keep, however , is nipped "just to be sure". Actually, I cut each lead weight completely in half, sometimes into three if they're really big. They pack better in the storage buckets that way. It really doesn't take long to do a half bucket. I never do more than 20-25 minutes at a time, often a lot less, just whatever time I can steal

[Rompin Ruger]

Wow! Lots of good stuff here! Thanks to one and all.

SSnow, I've gotten a few more tricks outa your post. Thanks.

I started going by weight but visually looking at each one. None in this 10-15 yr old batch has had any marking of FE or ZN on any so far. I still have 2+ buckets to go... I poured on bucket into a heavy cardboard box where I picked them up and slide them on a board down onto a rolling cart at storage...worked...wheels will be FLAT on the li'l cart soon I'm sure!

Here's some pics of how I'm crimping my weights to check...if anyone can tell me if that is sufficient, I'd be most appreciative!

108740I'm hoping this is all the mark needed to affirm it's lead, not zinc???

108741

Here's the crimpers I'm using. Not very large...maybe 6" handle...I do not think I could cut one in half with these. Hand for sizing reference.
108742

Out of the 3 buckets I "scored" I have 2 left and got this amount of ingots so far...
108743

[ssnow]

The forum is having some issues with attachments at the moment, and I cannot view any of your pictures.

There is a "Hand Sorting Guide" as a "sticky" post in this sub-forum. It has some pictures of the more common weights. If you have not seen it yet, then check it out as it will most likely be helpful to you as you begin this addiction we call casting :)

[Rompin Ruger]

I'm unsure how to imbed pictures. If someone wishes to instruct me, perhaps via PM or email, I'd give it a try.

I have read and printed out parts of the "Guide to Sorting WW" on this site. Thank you. Things as old as mine tend to become obscured with rust and such... they were once "washed" with a hose and left to dry in the sun... month or so ago, but there is still considerable rust...

Disappointed that my pics don't show for you wise gents review...

[bangerjim]

I'm unsure how to imbed pictures. If someone wishes to instruct me, perhaps via PM or email, I'd give it a try.

I have read and printed out parts of the "Guide to Sorting WW" on this site. Thank you. Things as old as mine tend to become obscured with rust and such... they were once "washed" with a hose and left to dry in the sun... month or so ago, but there is still considerable rust...

Disappointed that my pics don't show for you wise gents review...

When posting "go advanced" then "Manage attachments".

A window will pop up that you target the location the picture is in on you computer. upload it and "insert in-line".

You can then "preview" your post to see how it looks. Be sure you have your curser where you want the picture to appear in your post!!

bangerjim

[Rompin Ruger]

Lets try this again with BangerJim's input:

Here's a pic of how much "indent" I've been using to determine my WW are lead, not Zn.

108758

And another....108759 Any input on whether this is enough of a "pinch mark" to merit assuming it's LEAD?

Here's the tool I use, I don't think I could cut a lead in half with it... handles don't provide enough leverage. My hand was included to give perspective
108760

So far out of 3 buckets, I have most of one bucket sorted... and the resulting pile of corn cob and standard ingots to date:
108761

[RogerDat]

Looks like plenty to me. You might find diagonal cutter easier. With dikes you can make a little nip using just the tip of the cutters using very little force.

Look along the left side of the WW's the nips are all in a line. Click on the picture or link to see it full size.

108764

And I must say a pretty bucket of ingots you have there!

[ssnow]

I would highly recommend that you buy some diagonal cutters, available at any tool/hardware/parts store/lumberyard, even Wal-Mart has some. Here are a couple of examples from Lowes;

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=39714-922-338&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=1085489&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=464600-16878-55734&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=50069699&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

With cutters like these, you can easily cut the weight in half if you desired. EASILY :) They will reduce the amount of effort required and the resulting hand fatigue. Now that we see the old style cutters you have been using, your difficulty with them makes better sense :) Do yourself a big favor, and grab some new cutters.

[Rompin Ruger]

Gents,

As always, you all have been an invaluable asset. My Asset is limited, but Mr. SSNOW, I will look around the plethora of tools my Dad had before he passed... I don't think there is another $20 right now to kick into the kitty...the kitty is looking gaunt.

The best part is that you've settled that indeed, it would appear, that the small indentations I'm making are sufficient to validate the weights are lead! Gracias!

108785

Thanks for the compliments on ingots. The pic above, shows a box on top ialready sorted painfully. There is a few #'s in the bucket remaining and there is a bucket beneath the box and another water box in which a bucket sits. The box has 3/4 bucket in there. Those heavy water boxes handle some weight...more'n I could lift, but I dumped smaller bucket fulls into the box in my car in VA, then slid the box & buckets down a plank onto that wheeled small cart...which by now has flats on the small rubber wheels! :-o

[ACrowe25]

Sit back with a couple beers and check them. You're doubting, as that's why you made the first post here. Would be nothing worse then smelting an alloy and getting ready to cast to find out it's contaminated.

[RogerDat]

Can totally relate to purchase of just "one more thing" being an issue right after you made a long trip to purchase the pot and materials. Looks like your getting it done. Just remember it's a hobby, no deadlines or need to do it faster than is comfortable. Other than being impatient to get onto the fun stuff. :razz:

[Rompin Ruger]

Et al,

Yes! I was in doubt and figured this was the place to ask for clarification. I got way more than just clarification and lots of GREAT suggestions!

As for the "fun stuff" I joined one of the few ranges/clubs locally that doesn't have a 2 year waiting list... then 30 days later, they close the range for some grandiose project rework that a few dirt mounds for backstops would have resolved.

I don't have anywhere to shoot when I need it, so the "fire" under me is somewhat tempered!

But after doing all the reading here, learning, yearning and assembling "stuff", when time permits, I want to do what I do right and not screw up for lack of insight, understanding or clarification.

You all have given me EXACTLY what I was looking for and more! Thank you all!

[762 shooter]

I just put a small corner of the weight into the cutter and try to "cut the tip". You can or cannot. Don't have to open the cutters quite so much and if you get as close as you can to the pivot.

Pounds of experience.

I pull the marked FE and ZN. FE won't melt it just soaks up valuable heat. A lot of "lead" WW can be discerned by look, they look like lead. Then there are the canoe shaped weights that are not zinc. I take what is left and nip the tip. When I smelt I watch when it starts going liquid and pull any that are suspiciously slow to melt.

Any bucket you get regardless of age may have some zinc added recently. It pays to check. A while back I had to get rid of most of a pot of smelt contaminated by ZN and vowed never again.

My process.

762

[Rompin Ruger]

Just to follow up with you fine people who made great suggestions etc.

I was using a ton of propane to melt...someone PM'd me to build a 3-sided sheet metal shield to keep in heat on my cast iron smelting pot, and to add a lid till melted. With the lid and "shield" in place, I used far less. Also turned off heat after I skimmed clips and then fluxed...then started ladle pouring into ingots. With a bit molten left in the bottom, I'd start over with sorted/checked WW and do another melt sequence.

I've found a red handled (cushioned) side cutter of some size in my poke and used it...checked every WW and have yet to find ANY that don't show a good NIP in the end.

I got approximately 100# of cast ingots so far and a bucket and a half to go...some of the trad RCBS ingots and a bunch more from a 'corn cob' muffin (cast iron) tray I was gifted.

It's hot work in the heat and humidity, using propane, but it's what I have to work with and I'm doing it a bit at a time.

Started casting boolits with the traded RCBS Pro Melt and got some good ones! Takes a while to set up at either location with all the fussin I have to do...either carrying stuff from basement out doors when neighbor kids aren't around to get close, or truck over to the store room to smelt!

I am very pleased with results so far... and grateful for your help, one and all!

[ssnow]

I'm glad to hear it's working out for you!!! As I mentioned in post # 4, I did not expect you to find much zinc or steel weights in a bucket 15 years old. But, this is a rather rare find, that won't be repeated often. Once you start with newer weights, there will be many zinc and steel weights in a bucket.

It's very unfortunate for us casters, but that's the way it is.

[Rompin Ruger]

I remember your many helpful comments, SSNOW, and thanks!

YEs, I knew it was a "find"...only reason I paid what I did for the RCBS Pro Melt...and it was full of "mystery" lead, reputed to be "bullet lead"... turned out to throw 45's that come in about .080-.083 so likely WW.

Along with the 3 buckets of WW... so far, no ZN or FE. I got a 5 gal bucket locally early spring...and I think I found maybe 15-20# total of lead WW in it! The rest were stick on (didn't know to keep them for soft lead) and FE and ZN WW.... I gave them all to a buddy with a small automotive repair shop who can re-use them for tire balancing...so not a total loss!

I want to figure out how to stretch the WW for the .45 Colt.

I hear 50-50 WW:lead is good and add 2% tin...I don't have TIN at this moment, just Lino of ?? origin. The math computing the lead, antimony and tin in that to WW has my eyes rolling! LOL...

When my "ship" comes in, I might have to actually BUY some TIN from Roto... make it easier...infinitely for a math phobic like me!

[ssnow]

Have you seen Bumpo's Calculator? It's a sticky thread in this section. Bumpo has done all the hard work for you. Check it out.

A little Tin is helpful, no doubt about that. But you can try what you have as-is. I have cast many perfectly fine bullets out of wheel weight alloy, with no additional Tin added. Your older weights may have more tin than what we find in wheel weights today anyway.

[Rompin Ruger]

Sent you a PM. Don't want to tie up bandwidth with my silly drivel...but thanks! I did try to download that thing and it wouldn't fly for me...or open...or work...???

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I cast really nice bullets for my 45/70 with an alloy of 50/50 - WW/lead and there is no need to add any tin.

Give it a try before wasting or spending money for tin.

Millions of good bullet have cast and shot of just plain Ol'WW, and my 50/50 alloy has lots less tin and still casts great.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Rompin Ruger]

CDOC,

Thanks! I'm loading for 45 colt in a ruger BH, so will be pushing a wee bit... figured I might need the extra tin along with the Antimony in the WW to keep it above a soft cast...

I should reduce my mix to 5# + 5# and see, rather than do a full pot in my "new to me" RCBS Pro melt @ 22# volume, eh?

Thanks for the encouragement! 45-70 I thought were lower pressure than my 45 Colt in the NMBH???

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Hey there R RUGER,

I shoot a 310gr Wide Flat Nose cast sized .431 from my 5.5" RUGER RedHawk .44 at just over 1300fps using WW with no problems. This is a gas check bullet, and I water quench the bullet as it falls from the hot mold.

Shot and tested and hunted with the 45/70, gas checked WW - water quenched testing up to a bit more then 2500fps and hunting with those 355gr WFN at just over 2300fps. Won't likely repeat that, as the wound channel was huge!!!!!

Currently the 45/70 - 50/50 alloy, water quenched - 465gr WFN is MUCH better. Extremely deadly at 1650fps without the huge hole caused by the much higher velocity. Sizing .460. Rifle is a RUGER #1.

Oldest son and I both had RUGER BlackHawks years back. He still has his. and his would lead with plain base bullets while mine would not. These are with the same mag. level loads. Went to a gas checked bullet for Jeff, and no more problem.

Now, having learned a bit more, I think that the problem may well have been bullet to bore fit with Jeff's bore being a bit larger then mine and needing a bit larger plain base bullet. However, the Gas Check solved the problem.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[RogerDat]

Sent you a PM. Don't want to tie up bandwidth with my silly drivel...but thanks! I did try to download that thing and it wouldn't fly for me...or open...or work...???

Download OpenOffice the lead alloy calculator is a spread sheet like Excel and OpenOffice is free open source office document software that can open it. If you have Microsoft Office that will work too. If not OpenOffice Calc works fine. Sort of a large download but not too bad.

[Rompin Ruger]

CDoc,

I've ascertained that my cylinder throats are tight (.4515) so they're off now to Doug Guy to ream out... there is a wasp waist thread constriction in my one BBL...same .4515... I'm in (once I hear from Josh) on a large non-Keith design slug mold he's doing on a group buy... being told that they are less susceptible to Forcing cone abuse on the driving band of a Keith design...

So much to learn... I'm waitin to hear from Josh on mold drop dimensions to know to go with .452 mold or .454 mold. My 45-RCBS-270-SAA is 452 and throws .456/7 bullets! :0

Not sure what to order...those slugs were cast with some "mystery metal" in a used Pro melt pot I bought... but comes out .083 or aged WW hardness within 48 hrs... so I've read that harder comes out larger!

RogerDat,

You have been a lot of tech help! You directed me how to post pics in this thread...I have MS OFFICE, but when it asks me what to use to open or download the Zip file, I had no idea what to check off!

I've been advised to NOT worry about the mix...just do 50-50 WW and Lead since my Lead might have some tin in it from days bygone... guess thing to do is melt up some 50-50 and see how it comes out! :0

Anyway...thanks for all the guidance and suggestions, gents! I appreciate it!!!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

R RUGER,

You might be a candidate for some fire lapping if you have a thread choke in a barrel.

CDOC

[Rompin Ruger]

Yup. Might be. Not too crazy about sticking coarse grit down my gun barrel and blowing it all through my mechanism out the cylinder gap... but once the throats are done..we'll see. Might shoot out on it's own... Lots of theories on that aspect... none that are worth moving too fast!

Time will tell... Non Keith design might help too.... :0

[RogerDat]

......

RogerDat,

You have been a lot of tech help! You directed me how to post pics in this thread...I have MS OFFICE, but when it asks me what to use to open or download the Zip file, I had no idea what to check off!

I've been advised to NOT worry about the mix...just do 50-50 WW and Lead since my Lead might have some tin in it from days bygone... guess thing to do is melt up some 50-50 and see how it comes out! :0

Anyway...thanks for all the guidance and suggestions, gents! I appreciate it!!!

7zip is free open source software to zip and unzip (compress & extract). http://www.7-zip.org/ After install you can just right click on alloy calculator zip file and see 7zip as an option, select extract and done. Will create folder and have the alloy calculator extracted inside it ready to go. Some versions of windows might have an Uncompress option if you right click on file that might work too.

I love that alloy calculator! Greatest thing since pull top beer cans.

Nothing proves an alloy works or not like making some bullets and giving it a try. Worse case you can grab a little solder from big box store and have a do over. Gotta love the remelt, beats making a mistake with wood by a mile.

[Deliverator]

Haven't been able to find much lead anything in the Oregon area (at least not for free/cheap)