CFE Pistol in 40 SW

[petroid]

About all I could find at LGS was CFE Pistol. Got a pound to try. Can't find any lead data for 40 and very limited for 9mm. Burn rate listed by Hodgdon seems much slower than their load data would indicate. By cross-referencing their data and other published data it seems that it is relatively close to Unique. Hodgdon lists a max of 6.0 for a 180gr XTP, so I loaded up five at 4.7 5.0 and 5.4 which is what my Pro auto disk would drop. I am using Lee TL-401-175SWC which drops at about 180gr from AC COWW with 1% tin and PC with HF Red. OAL is 1.125 and CCI 500 small pistol primer. Shot from XD40

Haven't chrono'd yet but they all shot pretty close to poa at 7 yrds offhand. Recoil was not excessive and all cycled and fed fine. Interestingly all the cases were quite sooty. I have been using power pistol and at about 5.3 gr the cases are quite clean. I would have thought the "seemingly" faster powder would not have this problem. Does anyone have any experience with this powder that could guide me? Thanks

[Bullwolf]

About all I could find at LGS was CFE Pistol. Got a pound to try. Can't find any lead data for 40 and very limited for 9mm. Burn rate listed by Hodgdon seems much slower than their load data would indicate. By cross-referencing their data and other published data it seems that it is relatively close to Unique. Hodgdon lists a max of 6.0 for a 180gr XTP, so I loaded up five at 4.7 5.0 and 5.4 which is what my Pro auto disk would drop. I am using Lee TL-401-175SWC which drops at about 180gr from AC COWW with 1% tin and PC with HF Red. OAL is 1.125 and CCI 500 small pistol primer. Shot from XD40

Haven't chrono'd yet but they all shot pretty close to poa at 7 yrds offhand. Recoil was not excessive and all cycled and fed fine. Interestingly all the cases were quite sooty. I have been using power pistol and at about 5.3 gr the cases are quite clean. I would have thought the "seemingly" faster powder would not have this problem. Does anyone have any experience with this powder that could guide me? Thanks

Not sure how much help this will be, but here goes.

From the 2014 Hodgdon Basic Reloading Manual.
(The paper loading pamphlet handed out with CFE Powder)


Page 21 of the Hodgdon pamphlet shows a max charge of 6.0 grains for CFE pistol using a 180 grain Hornady XTP and a 1.125 COL for 40 S&W. (reduce 10% to find a starting load and work up)

In my experience most powders, especially slower burning powders that seem dirty, tend to clean up at higher pressures - assuming the smoke and soot are not a by product of the lube you are using.

You are getting close to the Hodgdon jacketed data maximum charge. You could keep going and see if the powder cleans up at all, or alternatively if accuracy and point of aim are good where you are currently at, just deal with it being sooty.

CFE wasn't what I would consider a fast burning powder, not like say Bullseye or Red Dot at least. I can light load red dot enough in a mild trap load to the point that even it will leave some unburnt flakes.

CFE Pistol is placed quite a ways down the Hodgdon burn rate chart at #44. If your familiar with AA #5 it seems to be pretty close to there. CFE Pistol was slower than Unique and Power Pistol, and was starting to get closer to Blue Dot in relative burn rate speed.

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

A cut and paste section from Hodgdon's relative burn rate chart:

<snip>

08 Alliant Red Dot
09 Alliant Promo
10 Hodgdon CLAYS
11 Alliant Clay dot
12 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 700-X
13 Alliant Bullseye
14 Hodgdon TIGHTGROUP
15 Alliant American Select
16 Accurate Arms Solo 1000
17 Alliant Green Dot
18 Winchester WST
19 IMR, Co Trail Boss

28 Hodgdon HP-38
29 Winchester 231
30 Alliant 20/28
31 Alliant Unique
32 Hodgdon UNIVERSAL
33 Alliant Power Pistol
34 VihtaVuori N330
35 Alliant Herco
36 Winchester WSF
37 VihtaVuori
38 IMR, Co Hi-Skor 800-X
39 IMR, Co SR 4756
40 Ramshot True Blue
41 Accurate Arms No. 5
42 Hodgdon HS-6 115
43 Winchester AutoComp
44 Hodgdon CFE Pistol
45 Ramshot Silhouette
46 VihtaVuori 3N37
47 VihtaVuori N350
48 Hodgdon HS-7 121
49 VihtaVuori 3N38
50 Alliant Blue Dot
51 Accurate Arms No. 7
52 Alliant Pro Reach
53 Hodgdon LONGSHOT
54 Alliant 410 127
55 Alliant 2400 128
56 Ramshot Enforcer
57 Accurate Arms No. 9
58 Accurate Arms 4100
59 Alliant Steel
60 NORMA R123
61 VihtaVuori N110
62 Hodgdon LIL'GUN
63 Hodgdon H110
64 Winchester 296
65 IMR, Co. IMR 4227

<snip>

I picked up a pound of CFE pistol (all that was available at the time) and I was less than impressed with it in the few cartridges I tried it in. Sadly 40 S&W was not one of them, but 40 is a somewhat high pressure cartridge so I really would have expected it to burn somewhat cleaner there, than say in 45ACP.

CFE Pistol did not do anything special or more efficiently that I couldn't do using other powders, and I generally do not shoot enough J words to benefit from any supposed copper fouling erasing properties it may or may not have. The only benefit to CFE pistol was that it seemed to be in stock when few or no other powders were available. I won't intentionally buy it again unless I am unable to find any of my other favorite powders in stock.

The only good thing about the powder shortage is that it forced me try different powders than the same old tried and true favorites I've always used. The bad thing is some of them have not been as good a fit as my tried and true favorites were.


- Bullwolf

[petroid]

Bullwolf I have the jacketed data from hodgdon was just looking for lead boolit data. I tried to stay 10% under starting and max charges. Though hodgdon puts it farther down the burn rate chart their load data indicates its a bit faster

[petroid]

well I don't know what to think. Hodgdon puts it between WSF and Autocomp in burn rate chart and by load data. but comparing load data between powder manufacturers and bullet manufacturers and reloading/casting companies is apples to pomegranates to okra. It just doesn't mesh well. Without pressure testing equipment I guess I'll use my best judgment and chronograph to figure it out. CFE Pistol may be a little too slow to burn clean with cast boolits but who knows. I will say accuracy is good so far. My Power Pistol loads didn't really shoot to POI that well. The few of these I've shot seem to do ok.