Range report on Danish Rolling Block 11mm converted to 45/70

[wellfedirishman]

Hi Folks,

I picked up a Danish Rolling block last year that had been 'cleaned up' by someone polishing all the patina off, and converting it to 45/70. So the collector value is pretty much gone. It also had a funky rear sight, certainly not original, and I am not sure where it came from. However, the action was good and the bore was great, which is what sold it for me.

Range view:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/Danish%20Rolling%20Block/DanishRollingBlock-top_zps9f026c68.jpg

Side markings:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/Danish%20Rolling%20Block/DanishRollingBlock-side_zpsfa1ed242.jpg

Tang markings: Kjobenhavns Toihuus 1888, so Copenhagen Arsenal.
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/Danish%20Rolling%20Block/DanishRollingBlock-tang_zpsc6def9ee.jpg

The rear sight is a replacement of some kind and rather wobbly so I had shimmed it with some cardboard to keep it steady.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/Danish%20Rolling%20Block/DanishRollingBlock-sight_zps17b0b627.jpg

So finally I got a chance to take it out to the range this evening with some 45/70 cast loads:
350 grain 460 Hammer mold cast from wheelweights.
14 gr Trailboss
Win LP primer

This is a pet load I have used in Trapdoors, Sharps, etc. and it shoots great and stays subsonic in whatever rifle I have tried it in. Consult a loading manual before trying any load in any of your rifles.

So results at 25 yards (farthest I shot for groups)
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/Danish%20Rolling%20Block/DanishRollingBlock-target_zps131fa249.jpg

I got a few 3-hole touching groups over the course of the evening, so I think the rifle can shoot. It is hindered by the awful sights so I may remove them and mount a tang/vernier sight instead.

Anyone else shoot one of these converted Danish rifles? They are certainly fun to shoot, especially when getting better groups than the guys with ARs and red-dots beside me at the range...

Wellfedirishman

[Paul Tummers]

I also have one of those Danish rifles, a cabine made by Toihuus, did not have to change caliber, the 45/70 case did fit perfectly in its chamber. It is a very accurate rifle and I can be wrong but I have the impression the Danish made rifles are finished better than the Swedish Carl Gustav's and the ones with the original Remington actions.
I do not shoot this rifle very often because it recoils like a mule and it seems to be one of the 3000 ever made, so quite a rare item perhaps.

[wellfedirishman]

Paul, thanks for your message. I'd like to see one of these in a carbine, sounds like fun. If you try a light Unique or Trailboss load in it, you might want to shoot it a lot more often.

The recoil with the Trailboss load above was quite light, in fact one of the range officers commented that it sounded like a pistol round.

[Paul Tummers]

Paul, thanks for your message. I'd like to see one of these in a carbine, sounds like fun. If you try a light Unique or Trailboss load in it, you might want to shoot it a lot more often.

The recoil with the Trailboss load above was quite light, in fact one of the range officers commented that it sounded like a pistol round.

Will try to make some pictures tomorrow and post them. Strange thing is that the Swiss # 2 loads I shoot in that carbine are really tame loads in a rifle with a long barrel, no problem at all.
I first will have to shoot the rest of the BP I have before I buy a can of Trailboss- we have restrictions on the amount of powder we are allowed to store at home and I do not want to go over the limit.

[Tom Herman]

I also have a Danish Remington: It's a Toihuus as well. I've been looking for a reasonable one for a long time, and spotted it last December... It looks like it was made yesterday, and not 135 years ago. A previous owner sanded down the wood a bit, but the rifling is absolutely mirror bright.
I have yet to fire it. I also need to do a chamber cast.
If it's not converted, I will keep it in whatever caliber it is, and buy the necessary dies and cases.
How does the pressure wave of the Trailboss compare to black powder? I don't want to push this thing very fast or hard.

-Tom

[wellfedirishman]

Tom, here is some old Trailboss data from IMR that gives some pressure info:
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/trailboss-oct2005.php

I have not noticed any pressure signs with the load I use.



I also have a Danish Remington: It's a Toihuus as well. I've been looking for a reasonable one for a long time, and spotted it last December... It looks like it was made yesterday, and not 135 years ago. A previous owner sanded down the wood a bit, but the rifling is absolutely mirror bright.
I have yet to fire it. I also need to do a chamber cast.
If it's not converted, I will keep it in whatever caliber it is, and buy the necessary dies and cases.
How does the pressure wave of the Trailboss compare to black powder? I don't want to push this thing very fast or hard.

-Tom

[Tom Herman]

Wellfedirishman,

Many Thanks on the link! I think that's just what the doctor ordered. I like the 300 grain loading... Even better, I may try a 265 grain unsized bullet for the .455 Webley: They are essentially smokeless Minie balls! I checked out loadings for another project in .44 Magnum reduced loads. I'm glad I stockpiled some Trail Boss a while back...

-Tom

[Howie405]

Guys
The Danish rolling block rifles are usually chambered in 11.7 x 51 or 11.7 x 56 which are larger cases then the 45-70.The 45-70 will fit but is too small in the head area in front of the rim.I have
made cases from .43 spanish and .348 Winchester in the past but this requires the rims to be thinned,cases shortened and in the case of the .348 the diameter of the head has to be reduced.
Please be careful with your loads.They rifles are well made but still well over 100 years old.
Howie

[Tom Herman]

Howie, I appreciate your advice! I have compared the 11.7 x 5x to the .45-70, and have found the same thing that you state. Yes, my 1880's vintage .45-70 rounds will fit,
but is it wise, as there is a slight difference in diameter of the loaded case? I think it will work as a field expedient, but that's as far as it goes. I am waiting for Buffalo Arms to have the proper brass available. Then it's purchase the dies, and a Lee mould, and I should be in business.
And, yes, I have no illusion that this is a super strong gun: I know it's a 130+ year old gun, so it will be treated very gingerly (I saw the picture of the blown up Swedish RB that the guy fired who knows what out of).
I have an 1868 Springfield in .50-70 that I haven't fired yet, either... I went to a gun show several years ago, and one of the vendors had a cigar box filled with what was left of a Rolling Block. The guy told me that this was the direct result of converting a Rolling Block from a low pressure Black Powder cartridge to a modern, very high pressure whoop-de-doo ultra magnum of some sort. The receiver had peeled along the top, and a bunch of other parts were mangled as well. The good news was that somehow, the shooter survived, albeit he definitely got injured. The message is clear: KNOW what you are doing, and treat old weapons with weak or unknown metallurgy and history with the utmost of care and respect. Will i even shoot the Trapdoor? I don't know... Will I shoot the RB? Most likely... But I will do so with great deliberation and care. I also don't push my WWII vintage guns in .455 Webley... I am hesitant to fire guns of good manufacture of the BP vintage. I couldn't even imagine shooting something like a Nepalese manufactured Enfield like the Gahendra... That's WAY out of my comfort zone!
I'll get off my butt one of these days and do a chamber cast of the RB to figure out exactly which caliber I have. I'm thinking this out to the point of wondering what the difference in pressure would be between the x51 and x56 cartridge lengths... That would probably be moot if I fire a 300 grain bullet.... -Tom

[wellfedirishman]

Tom, I use the same loadings (data from the IMR site linked) in trapdoors and they shoot well there also.

Trapdoor:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201699-Range-report-and-question-regarding-45-70-Trapdoor-(1874)

And modern H&R Buffalo Carbine with 45LC results for comparison:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?99213-Range-Report-on-Buffalo-Classic-45LC-and-Trailboss-Cast-Loads

I agree with Howie too, treat the old guns with respect and they will last and shoot just fine.

[Tom Herman]

Thanks for the additional information! That is a beautiful Trapdoor! Glad it's shooting well for you. -Tom

[Ed in North Texas]

Guys
The Danish rolling block rifles are usually chambered in 11.7 x 51 or 11.7 x 56 which are larger cases then the 45-70.The 45-70 will fit but is too small in the head area in front of the rim.I have
made cases from .43 spanish and .348 Winchester in the past but this requires the rims to be thinned,cases shortened and in the case of the .348 the diameter of the head has to be reduced.
Please be careful with your loads.They rifles are well made but still well over 100 years old.
Howie

SOME of these rifles will accept shortened .50 Alaskan cases. My Swede does, once I trimmed the case it slid right in like it was made for the rifle. With the stout construction of the Starline cases they will last forever with BP or light smokeless loads - though annealing is necessary for the same reason they will last forever.

MY BP loads are the same for the Swede and my NYS Militia .50-70.