45LC LEE vs. 452424

[wonderwolf]

I picked up a Lee mold for S&Gs at a gun show a while back while I'm waiting on the 454423 244gr Keith GB to show up. It casts a 252gr SWC with something like a .359 meplat (Keith I think is .330?). I had a gentleman from the boards offer me a 452424 Lyman Keith style as possible trade stock for something he wanted and I got to thinking. I know Keith has taught us 1 large lube groove is better than many small ones (the lee mold has 2 shallow ones) but other than that and a nose that might be shorter than that of the 452424 what benefit would the Keith design offer over the lee 252gr bullet? The bearing surface on the lee is .443" and from what I gather the bearing surface on the 452424 is around .442"-.458" depending on who's mold you purchase

Meplat for Meplat and weight for weight? I have not shot the lee one yet as I'm still working up loads and a single cav mold is a pain to work with for pistol (but I got it at a great price so I thought "why not") so I don't really know. Your opinion on accuracy and effectiveness on large North American Game / "adventure load" if you will

This is out of a 4 5/8's Ruger blackhawk that I'm willing to abuse....if you have any real "thumper loads" you think I should try give me the data and I'll work up to it safely I'm using
Unique and 2400 for the most part

[wonderwolf]

any help from the peanut gallery?....or shooting gallery...your choice :Fire:

[Pepe Ray]

Kind of a dry spell eh?
I loved the old guy, but the magic is gone. Much of what he espoused has been made unnecessary because of the new things we've learned. His problems with lubrication have been surmounted. We know today that the fit of boolet to chamber is more critical than boolet to bore. And a SWC is a SWC from coast to coast. Each fire arm is a study in itself. His admonishment to have a "full size driving band holds true," for the most part.
Look for pleasing results at the target. Be sure of an adequate payload. And enough meplat to go "WHACK".
Pepe Ray

[MT Gianni]

I have a 454424 that outshoots all else in my 45 Blackhawk. I sold my 255 RF Lee a long time ago because the groups were twice the size. My experience with the Lee SC pistol bullet molds is that the designs have been passed on for other easier to machine designs. That means if it does shoot great you have a SC unduplicatible mold. YMMV. Gianni

[Lloyd Smale]

I havent had much luck with any of the bullets youve listed. I know some guys swear buy the 452424 but for the most part its been a dud for me. I much prefer the rcbs 255swc.

[shawn45]

I have shot tons of both and the Keith does better than the Lee. I have killed a nice buck with the Lee, but I have killed lots more deer with the Keith as it has enough lube to go the velocities I want to go. I still use the Lee for practice loads so I can tell whats what. I don't run the Lee over 900 fps anymore (not that it wouldn't work I just use it for practice loads)

[shooting on a shoestring]

Here's a vote for 454424. That was the first boolit I had with one large lube groove. Now I'm looking for more. I also have 454190 which has two small grooves fairly similar to your Lee's grooves. I had to go to Felix lube (which turned out to be a blessing) to get it over 1000 fps w/o leading. The old 454424 will shoot over 1000 with candle wax/toilet ring.

I have also been fighting leading using Lee .357 140 gr SWC with the two shallow lube grooves. Same story, shoots ok with Felix lube under 1200 in a Mod 19, but not in my SSNMBH, leads over 1050. I'm going to try WWs and water quenching with that one next.

So, I would predict the two shallow lube grooves on your Lee SWC will probably need really good lube, maybe water quenching.

I also have the Lee 300 WFN GC. I broke the aluminum grip frame off my BH with that boolit and 23 grs of H4227 giving me about 1250 out of my 7.5" barrel.

Now days I mainly shoot my .45 Colt BH with 10 grs Herco and 454424 or 454190. Gets me 950 or so, and its plenty of power for the paper I punch the clangs I knock over.