Ruger No.1 for black powder cartridge shooting

[smoked turkey]

I have been using my two Ruger No.1s for my black powder cartridge rifles for the past three or four months. This is my first BPCR and I discovered I have really been missing it! It is more fun than I ever imagined. My load for the 45-70 is pretty standard. I am loading 60 gr KIK FFg, a veggie wad and a 457193 plain base boolit of ww+lead for a weight of 417 gr and a oal of 2.624". This puts the boolit just short of the lands. There is not much compression of the powder at that length. I also load the same boolit over 76 gr. of the same powder for my 458 Win mag in an oal of 3.13". I discovered what everyone knows about the 458 mag chamber being so long throated that it is impossible to get the boolit anywhere close to the lands. Accuracy of the 45-70 about 2" at 100 yards. I have not shot for groups in the 458 mag yet, so I don't know about it. I do have couple of questions about the Ruger rifles and the use of a receiver sight. I have scopes on both rifles at the present time and I would like to go to a receiver sight. I see that Brownells has one that mounts in the rear factory ring notch. Does anyone have any experience with a receiver sight on the Ruger No.1 they could share with me? Thanks to all for the posts and stickies on BPCR here on this site. I feel that I launched into this form of shooting without too much trouble and it is due to all the great information provided.

[RPRNY]

I have used both an English diamond V rear sight in the first receiver ring and an aperture sight that was on the rifle when I bought it - no idea of the maker. This is on a Ruger No 3 in 30-40. The English diamond or express sight surprised as much more effective than a buckhorn sight. The aperture on the peep was too small but when the aperture disk was removed, it was quite an effective ghost ring. I prefer the express sight, adjustable for windage and elevation of the two.

I would imagine you would be better served by some sort of Creedmore or Vernier type tang sight, though I can't say I know of one made fir the Ruger.

[country gent]

Would take several custom parts for a tang sight on the ruger no1. a special base to allow it to set over the saftey and a special saftey to allow it to be used from the side. Due to not falling into certain specs and no hammer it still wont be allowed in sanctioned bpcr NRA matches. The parts could easily be made though, and a MVA or other quality sight fitted to it. The front globe would require a dovetail be cut or a barrel band made.

[smoked turkey]

Thanks for the responses to my question about a rear receiver sight for my Ruger No. 1. I agree that the tang safety makes it both a problem and probably more expensive to fit a tang sight to the No. 1. I am wanting to make do with what I have and my shooting will just be here on my own range with distances limited to 150-200 yards. I really would like a Shiloh but they are out of my financial reach at the moment. I am thinking in terms of trying the N.E.C.G. rear sight that utilizes the rear ring notch on Ruger rifles. It is supposed to mate with the factory front sights on the Ruger rifles. I am going to post in the "WTB" section, so if anyone has one they could part with, I would be appreciative. Thanks.

[RPRNY]

I believe the rear ring aperture I had (it is currently safely stored in a box I just can't quite locate at the moment ;-) ) was the NECG. Just check the aperture diameter before you buy.

[smoked turkey]

The N.E.C.G. receiver sight at Brownells comes with two apertures, a .093", and a .125". I am not familiar with what makes a good aperture for hunting and/or target work, but it almost seems that the two supplied would be set up for both target (.093"), and hunting (.125"). Thanks RPRNY for the input. If you find your sight and decide you would be willing to sell, I'd sure be interested. Thanks.

[country gent]

For target (NRA High Power rifle, I used the .052 appetures with the NM font sight on my M1As and garands. I had adjustable appetures on my match rifles and adjusted to given light for the day. But with practice either should be acceptable. If not one cound be possibly be modified to take inserts from allen head set screws.

[skeettx]

For the 458 have you tried the 462560 or 457132??
Mike

for receiver sight bases CALL Neal
He make NEAT bases for receiver sights that attach to the
rear scope base, SWEET!!

http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1393024480

http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1270866899/12

http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1200321462

[smoked turkey]

country gent thanks for the info on apertures for match shooting. Your observation on using allen head set screws is brilliant. I need to remember that.

skeettx, thanks for the info about Neal Rice. I looked at the links and it seems it has been done before. I copied the phone # from one of the pages. Looked very old. Do you know if it is still current? The heaviest mould I have for my .458 is the 457671, a 470 gr RN. I have some loaded up with smokeless but no boolits I can try at the moment. I plan to remedy that soon.
was wondering if the .458 Lott would be a better caliber for what I am doing than the .458 mag with its excessive chamber throat length. I believe I have heard that the Lott has a more standard chamber throat length. I know a smith who has a Lott reamer and it could probably be done without breaking the bank. Thanks for all the input on getting my No. 1 set up for BPCR.

[.22-10-45]

Mention was made about NRA sanctioned matches not allowing a hammerless rifle to compete. The ASSRA (Amarican Single Shot Rifle Association) has no such silly rules! The historically used hammerless rifles such as the Sharps Borchardt, Mass. Arms Co. Peabody martini, and others as well as your Ruger No.1 are very much welcomed and appreciated!

[Nobade]

I have a #1 that is set up as a dedicated black powder/paper patch rifle. Currently it wears a 1901 Krag sight, which is great if your eyes are up to the task, but mine are quickly becoming not so great. Last week I fitted a fellow's modern made Winchester 1885 with a MVA Winchester #3 scope so he could shoot prairie dogs with it, and I think I have found my solution. That little (relatively) scope is really neat! He had the #2 mounts for it that have 1/2 MOA graduations, and it has a huge range of motion so should be good to quite a long distance. It looks correct on a single shot, and even has mil dots in the reticle for holdovers. Straight 3X, not much compared to what I am used to with modern scopes but sure is a lot better than the naked eye. Might be something for you to consider...

-Nobade

[smoked turkey]

I had posted in the W.T. B. section that I wanted one of the N.E.C.G. aperture sights. Since I had no responses I assumed that no one had one to sell. I went ahead and ordered one from Brownells. It arrived today. Looks to be a good, well made sight. I have not had a chance to mess with it yet. My plan now is to put in on my .458 Win mag No.1 since that is to be my "target" rifle. I have an old Weaver K2.5 Micro-Trac on it now. I would like to try the aperture for a while to see if it works for me. I always have the option of putting the aperture on my M77 35 Whelen which I want to try also. Thanks to all for your input on setting up my "new" target rifle for some B.P.C.R. Now to see if it works!

[bigted]

i completely agree with Nobade here ... i was going to suggest the same sort of suggestion.

i have a photo somewhere of a #1 with the rib removed and an old Unertl mounted with their spiffy mounts and i gotta say that it looks very cool indeed. in addition the Unertl can be had in several X powers AND and adjustable objective as well as a 1 inch body. they would be just what the doctor ordered for me if i were going to devote my #1 to shooting BP loads with a rifle that will not meet the requirements of the BPCR rules anyway. i cant imagine a better settup for a proper and strong rig.

[Nobade]

The thing about those NECG sights is they are designed to be used for hunting with smokeless powder loads. Sight in your 30-06 at 225 yards and hold on out to 300 yards. Shooting black powder, it might give you a 100 yard zero. There is not much movement available in it, and no way to set it back exactly the same each time. So, useful for hunting but not for any kind of target shooting at different distances. That scope, on the other hand, has a bunch of adjustment available and could easily be used from 100 to 500 yards and possibly more. And it is easy to come back down to your short zero each time.

-Nobade

[Don McDowell]

It should be pointed out that the Ruger is a legal gun in NRA bptr completion so long as it is chambered in an original blackpowder cartridge. The sillouette rules are the ones that eliminate the #1 and the Borchardt sharps.

[smoked turkey]

Thanks for all the information regarding my Ruger No. 1 in .458 being used as Black Powder Cartridge rifle. Nobade you have given me much information possibly without realizing it in your post #14. You see I was not schooled enough in BPCR target work to realize the short comings of the NECG rear mounted peep sight as it relates to long range shooting using black powder. I just knew that the big boys usually used a tang mounted peep sight on their Shilohs and Sharps rifles so I wanted to get in the game the only way I knew how with my No.1 using a NECG peep. So I realize that what I did is not going to work as well for target as for hunting applications. Thanks for setting me straight on that. All is not lost however as I plan to hunt with my No.1 45-70 all weather. I will probably try the sight on it. I have a small range here where I live and usually shoot 50, 100, and sometimes 150 yards. So my NECG doesn't hurt me too much. I want to report on my shooting results later after some more range time. But briefly, I fired four rounds today using a 458193 PB with ww/lead weighing in at 417 gr, using a volume measured 75 gr of pyrodex RS at 50 yards. Out of the four I had two keyhole in the target. One gave a perfect side outline of the boolit. I ran a quick check of my twist rate and came up with one turn in 15". I will do that again to see if that is what I get again. I suspect it is supposed to be one in 14 or 1 in 16, not one in 15. Looks like I am in for some range time if I am going to make this thing shoot. I know, I know from reading past posts that that is the nature of the beast. Thanks.

[bigted]

that is kewl Don. i had thought that any BP competition had the Ruger as not legal. that is good news as i very much enjoy the #1 for shooting BP in.

Smoked Turkey ... the 458 Ruger is going to be tough to get to perform with your BP loads and the light boolits. they have the 14 inch twist so that makes the 500 grain plus boolits your friend ... but the real reasson for your problems is going to be the LOOOONG throat. this is ussual in the win mag but to remedy this will take your mentioned Lott chamber with the much shorter throat. also this will give you the equivelent of a chamber from yesteryear ... the 45 x 2 and 7/8ths or the 45-110 sharps straight. there are ways to get the win mag to perform and the singleshot is the best to attempt it with but ... your path will be much easier with the Lott chamber and shorter throat.

[Don McDowell]

That fast twist in the Ruger isn't going to shoot worth spit with bullets less than about 540 grs with blackpowder. It's designed for shooting jacketed bullets fast with smokeless.
To get the best results with that rifle and black go to 70 grs of 2f black and a 530 gr minimum weight bullet with a couple of grease grooves exposed. She should start coming together then.

[smoked turkey]

Thank you guys. Yep, you have confirmed what I figured. Thanks Don for the vital info on what loads are more likely to perform better for me. I've got decisions to make and work to do. Wish I knew where a No.1 in .458 Lott could be had for a good price.

[bigted]

i understand that the ream job is simple and inexpensive to push your 458 winmag out to 458 lott.