Ordering powder online - good or bad? What to order

[RogerDat]

I am having little luck with finding powders at LGS suppliers. Have checked online and found that I can order but the wait time is 12 to 16 weeks for the order to be sent. I can live with that if it actually will get delivered. Looking at ordering from Lohmans in Texas. Anyone with experience with online powder ordering or dealing with that company with tips to offer?

That leads me to a second issue. What to order since I'm going to be out a little over $50 for shipping and hazmat I need to spread that out over more pounds to make it financially practical.

Have read a lot of forum posts on loads, consulted Lyman Cast Bullet manual, and marked each powder I could use for a specific cartridge on a powder burn rate chart looking for powders that will be good for the most uses. Since I am essentially going to spend a year or more worth of supply money I really need some advice on ordering the "best" for my uses.

This is what I am loading for and what I think I should order.


38/357 short and long barrel. 125 gr. and 158 gr. cast.
45 LC Ruger 255 gr. cast.
303 British 180 gr. cast - sub 1800 fps loads.


Eventually - pending die or mold purchases, I would also like to load for.

7.62 x 39 in SKS have not decided on mold. But probably 122 gr. or so.
.223 in ruger mini 14 with 1:7 twist. So bullet will be on the heavy side, maybe cast and maybe not.


I am thinking Unique which has decent loads for those pistols, also considered Bullseye and 700-x but if I purchased Unique and 2400 I would have known good loads for all of the above. EXCEPT the mini-14 which needs something slower. Thinking H335 or H4895 for mini-14 since Hodgdon has load data for that and the other rifles, velocities above generally recommended for cast in SKS and Enfield but at least useable.

So I am thinking:
8# Unique - pistol
4# 2400 - pistol, 303, 7.62x39
1# of two out of these three H335 or H4895 or Varget - .223, possible high velocity 303 & 7.62x39
No load data for Varget just reports that it works well for heavy .223 which I think my 1:7 twist will like.

I like the fact that Alliant offers 4# at a better price than buying single pounds, can't do 8# of everything and shoot revolver more often than anything else.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome, be nice to have a decent supply of powder before fall.

[Blammer]

I would recommend:

Unique
2400
Varget

for the top 3

then H4895 or IMR4895 if you can't get Varget

[Outpost75]

Check out Grafs & Sons in Mexico, MO. They will pay the shipping and HAZMAT for a $500 order of 32 pounds or more of powder which is in stock. You can also add primers to the order up to a 50-lb. box.

[GhostHawk]

I'm living in Fargo ND, our LGS is, has been, and looks like will be out of almost any usable powder for the foreseeable future.

So I have been buying what I could find online.

When I do find a powder I want online I do try to buy several units. It is tough when you don't have a lot of free money to play with. I also try to double up and get primers at the same time. It all ships in 1 box, then its 1 hazmat fee.

Recently I found Recob's target shop in Wisconsin had IMR 4895 which I had been looking for, for at least 4 months. Bite the bullet time, bought 3 lbs, and a 1000 primers, happened to be Winchester, they were out of my favorite CCI, but I'm guessing they'll still work. (FYI Recob's had a warning that shipping could take 10 days to 2 weeks, my order arrived 2 days after I made it, they got an email from me expressing my extreme pleasure, they WILL get more of my business. )

Good news is I was able to score the powder considerably below the 30+ $ per pound everyone else is selling at.
Which pretty much took care of the hazmat fee.

Call me happy.

Secret is to wait, watch, find what you want in the quantity you want and load up as much as you can afford when you do. Which unfortunately is partly making this shortage worse.

I think the real cause is the huge order the fed has for billions of rounds is sucking all the good powders up long before they get to the distributors.

That will eventually change and things should moderate some.

[xtphreak]

Just a thought, Alliant AR-Comp for the mini14 and IMR4895 for the other two.

Unique & Bullseye are my goto's for pistold

[RogerDat]

Check out Grafs & Sons in Mexico, MO. They will pay the shipping and HAZMAT for a $500 order of 32 pounds or more of powder which is in stock. You can also add primers to the order up to a 50-lb. box.

I can't swing an order for $500 worth of powder. With the quantities I listed I will be hitting $350 and that is about $50 over max I should spend. But figure I can cut back on lead and make it work.

I did wonder about graf & sons but their policy is to ship it as it comes in, I think that means I could get hazmat fee for each shipment. I should call them and Lohman and confirm if that is how it works.

Thanks for the info blammer, those slower powders like varget and 4895 seem to have a strong following, nice to have it confirmed I'm on the right track.

Eeek! forgot primers!

[Garyshome]

Check your states facebook gun sites, you may not like facebook but you may find something you can use.

[Suo Gan]

Take it from me, just buy what you need at the vendor as you need it. You don't need mass quantity. What you really need to do is figure out what you like and need and then if it is feasible buy a keg. Most folks don't take my advice. I know what it is like to have to make my dollar stretch. In all honesty I don't think it sounds like you need as much powder on hand as you think you do. Buy a pound of Unique and a pound of 2400. Buy them at the corner gun shop or next gun show. They seem to want $25 a pound right now. So that way you aren't into storing a lot more powder than you really need.

The world is not collapsing. If I am wrong and it does, I don't think that extra powder is going to make or break you.

[RogerDat]

......
In all honesty I don't think it sounds like you need as much powder on hand as you think you do. Buy a pound of Unique and a pound of 2400. Buy them at the corner gun shop or next gun show. They seem to want $25 a pound right now. So that way you aren't into storing a lot more powder than you really need.

The world is not collapsing. If I am wrong and it does, I don't think that extra powder is going to make or break you.

I wish I could pick up a pound of this or that and try it, the only reason I have any pistol powder is a vendor selling brass at a gun show brought in a pound of Unique for me the next day (nice man but 40 mile drive each way). I have called pretty much every LGS in 100 miles and 0 pistol powder in stock. So I figure I'll have to order online. That option adds $28 hazmat fee plus shipping so I start thinking I should make that extra cost worth it. There is also the long wait because powder is all back order of 3-4 months.

I may tone down the 8# of unique to 4# but figure properly stored it will last and get used. But it is a tough call for me to spend big bucks for stuff I don't need now on the basis of "someday" I will use it. But no powder makes all that lead I have pretty much wasted space.

For the end of the world I'm pretty sure I'll be busting out the battle packs and canned Russian stuff. Zombie apocalypse I figure the bayonet on the Enfield will make less noise. Everyone knows zombies all come if you make noise. Almost hoping...
never got to use the evil bayonet in a gang related drive-by bayonetting so it would be nice to finally use it. :kidding:

Your post did get me to thinking about that 8# jug and it's cost a little harder.

[jonas302]

I wouldn't count on a back order of the three most sought after powders getting filled within a year this a a good site to watch for powder in stock http://gunbot.net/reloading/Powder/ problem is not being able to make a complete economical order all with the same company

[rockrat]

powder valley is pretty good. Only took a week from ordering to receiving

[Bonz]

I watch http://www.gunbot.net for 22 LR and Powder. They get listed all the time but you have only minutes to choose and buy, just minutes. Grafs finally put a limit on powder and had Hodgdons CFE Pistol powder for almost an hour because they limited it to 2 x 1 pounders per order/person

[Grizzly Adams]

I wish I could pick up a pound of this or that and try it, the only reason I have any pistol powder is a vendor selling brass at a gun show brought in a pound of Unique for me the next day (nice man but 40 mile drive each way). I have called pretty much every LGS in 100 miles and 0 pistol powder in stock. So I figure I'll have to order online. That option adds $28 hazmat fee plus shipping so I start thinking I should make that extra cost worth it. There is also the long wait because powder is all back order of 3-4 months.

I may tone down the 8# of unique to 4# but figure properly stored it will last and get used. But it is a tough call for me to spend big bucks for stuff I don't need now on the basis of "someday" I will use it. But no powder makes all that lead I have pretty much wasted space.

For the end of the world I'm pretty sure I'll be busting out the battle packs and canned Russian stuff. Zombie apocalypse I figure the bayonet on the Enfield will make less noise. Everyone knows zombies all come if you make noise. Almost hoping...
never got to use the evil bayonet in a gang related drive-by bayonetting so it would be nice to finally use it. :kidding:

Your post did get me to thinking about that 8# jug and it's cost a little harder.




As for longevity, I am currently using a pound of Unique that is about 25 years old, that a friend who quit reloading gave me, still works fine. I have some powders older than that but I haven't been into them so I can't say what shape they are in.
I think your list is good, but I would have a list of alternatives (several for each powder) so you stand a better chance of making a complete order. Those you have listed are very versatile, but so are alot of others.

[Grizzly Adams]

P.S. Make sure you have load data for the powders you order.

[RogerDat]

I have seen the gunbot page before but had not realized it was a real time listing that self updated. Might have to monitor that. Powder Valley won't do back order and has nothing in stock right now but BP and BMG for the most part. I guess if I watch ever ready to pounce might get lucky.

The ability of the order to be filled was one of the things that made me think ordering smaller than 8# of Unique might be smart. That 8 lb. jug represents 2 @ 4# or 8 @ 1# both of those sizes have a higher profit and satisfies more customers so which size is the factory more likely to crank out?

Smart for sellers to limit purchases. Some Wal-Marts started stocking ammo at random times, helped a lot with the folks camped out there every morning to snag all the 22LR ammo. Cabelas clerk told me that the people that camp out there take more powder than they can purchase because of the limit and hide it in the store to come back for or call someone to come get.

[RogerDat]

P.S. Make sure you have load data for the powders you order.
I started out making that powder list using load data to make sure I would get the most coverage from the fewest powders. And provide loads that I would want to shoot.

Am interested in possibly alternative powders that would cover the same calibers for those weight bullets.

[bangerjim]

I guess I am fortunate her in AZ to find all the powder I will ever need at LGS's and gun shows. Also tons of primers at $32/K. And tons of lead and alloys.

I refuse to pay that stupid hazmat fee or order $500 worth of stuff!

I feel for you guys in areas that do not have powder! Good luck getting what you need.

bangerjim

[RogerDat]

I made a call to Lohman Arms and what they said confirms what jonas302 said popular powder have the most delay. And confirmed my suspicions that they get a lot more 1 lb. canisters in than 4 & 8 lb. so an order for larger size jug is going to take longer to fill. They also said they will call to ask if they can split your order rather than just hitting you with multiple Hazmat fees if they can only fill part of your order.

I figure roughly 900 rounds per pound for pistol so even a couple of 1# jugs of Unique would be plenty to last awhile. Enfield is around 400 rnd. per pound and I really am more interested in working up an accurate load than pounding hundreds of rounds down range. Same for the SK and mini-14. So a couple of lbs. of 2400 would "work". And a single lb. of 4895 so I can try cast in the mini-14. Once I have a load I like then I might think about loading several hundred for these auto loaders.

[RogerDat]

I guess I am fortunate her in AZ to find all the powder I will ever need at LGS's and gun shows. Also tons of primers at $32/K. And tons of lead and alloys.

I refuse to pay that stupid hazmat fee or order $500 worth of stuff!

I feel for you guys in areas that do not have powder! Good luck getting what you need.

bangerjim

Your concern and best wishes for those of us in powder never-never-land are touching but.... would rather have the powder market settle down so you wouldn't have to feel bad for us. :-)

What I started thinking about is this has been going one for at least 1 1/2 years (Jan 2013) so how come? And why the regional discrepancies? Only thing I can think of is manufactures are providing the stores in different regions based on their historical order amounts. I know GM did that with Suburbans when that model became popular, lot more of them in Texas dealer lots than here in Mich. because Texas had historically ordered more. Texas dealers got the same percentage as normal of the increased production. Then there is the people camping out to snatch up all they can. Are they the source of the shortage or just a minor part of the problem? Think about it a product that would normally have shipped within two weeks is now back ordered to 3 or more months on out to indefinite back order.

I wish someone had more than a theory (conspiracy or otherwise) and there was some actual hard data on powder production vs normal demand, as compared to current demand. Is it a production, demand, or stockpiling and flipping problem? Who knows but I am surprised the manufactures are not ramped up to crank out high production after 1 1/2 years of high demand.

[dbosman]

I believe the manufactures when they say they Are producing as fast as they can.
It takes a long time to bring new production facilities into service for any product and it takes investment dollars to get even start. One of the second or third questions a manufacturer has to ask is - will the investment continue to pay for itself after the panic is over.

[RogerDat]

Well after more fruitless searching locally I decided to order. I went with 2# each of Unique and 2400 with 1# of H4895 will just have to wait and see how long it takes to get the order shipped and if they fill the entire order in one shot. Site and phone they say 12 weeks, maybe more for Varget or other popular powders. Went with the 1# in the belief that small containers will make order easier to fill. Will post when it arrives be interesting to see how far apart the two post dates are.

[9w1911]

I had not seen 2400 in a very long time, both Unique and 4895 have been available through online retailers

[RogerDat]

Well it has been 16 weeks and entire order is still on back order. Called just to confirm order had not fallen into limbo land and they said no it was still pending and they had no projection for when powder would be available from manufacturer. There are only two explanations for market supply not meeting demand to the point that there is a 4 month plus back order.

Supply dropped, manufacturer reduced production well below demand. manufactures would do this intentionally IF the reduced supply yielded much higher prices for the product they do ship. Not seeing enough of a price jump to make me think manufacture is making same or better profit from selling 2/3 of the "normal" supply.
OR
Demand went up by more than 1/3 of annual production. My guess is demand from "new" reloaders probably did rise but doubt it rose by enough to account for outstripping supply by over 33% which is what a 4 month back order represents. Makes me think it is the "pounce and buy" irrespective of actual need mentality that a temporary shortage created.

Not really trying to rip on the hoarding folks, but I'm pretty sure this is a shortage is one that reloaders have inflicted on themselves. Either through hoarding themselves or paying scalper prices. Things don't ease up soon some folks are going to be sending cast boolits down range with a sling shot. I guess maybe I'm a bit odd, I can buy one 333 round box of .22 at Walmart and leave two boxes on the shelf for someone else, even more so when I know someone might be overjoyed that the .22 ammo they need is available. Assuming some hoarder/scalper does not snatch them up instead of someone that just needs some .22's to shoot.