To Kill Or Not To Kill

[zachskids]

Just got a nice taurus .357 but theres one problem, it has no blood on it yet, which I hope to remedy this hunting season. My problem is that it has a slight long range incompatiblity problem :-D I would like to put a scope on it for a number of reason but i cant seem to pick a scope. PLEASE HELP!!!!

[GSPKurt]

What do you consider long range? A simple 2x or 3x scope should be adequate for .357 effective range. If cost is an issue, Simmons or Tasco, if not, Leupold or Nikon.

[NSP64]

Welcome. How long is your bull's barrel? What do you consider long range? I bowhunt and 40yrds is long:-D Now with my 44mag 150yrds is max:drinks: Max range is as much limited by the shooter as well as the load. What do you think is limiting your range?

[Four Fingers of Death]

I would have thought that if you need a scope, yer getting a bit far aways for a 357 :)

[trickyasafox]

I've had great luck with burris scopes on handguns. A bit pricey, but they are made in the USA i believe and their quality and warrenty is top notch

[dk17hmr]

Times two on Burris. I just bought one for my 454 and really like the scope. I bought a 1.5-4x which covers long range and close range pretty well.

[Newtire]

I'm with 4finger on the range thing. I would prefer a red dot sight. I have a Swift 2X that works great however as far as pistol scopes go. I have tried a 4X but have a real hard time getting onto the target and getting any kind of sight picture. I had a Burris 2X on a .44 Super Blackhawk that was real good but no better than the Swift if you ask me. That Burris sure took a beating though!

[44man]

I use heavy handguns and eat Burris scopes (Dead soft tubes. made from Lee scrap metal.) for breakfast. I gutted a Swift before getting sighted in.
I use only Ultra Dots now. Since all of my guns are for hunting and most shots are early and late where I can't see the open sights or a deer in a scope, I find the dot is best.
Handgun scopes with the long eye relief are just too dark. If all shots are in full daylight they are fine but you will pass up many deer just after legal shooting time and just before quitting time.
To tell the truth, I can see the open sights sooner then I can through a scope.
If vision is the problem, get a red dot.

[lovedogs]

Probably any decent pistol scope will do for a .357. I use a variety of handguns for hunting that range from the .22 up to the .44, .30-30, and in the the past, a .35-.375 wildcat with serious recoil. For most handgunning a good 2X is hard to beat, especially if it has a good visible reticle, such a the Leupold's. Variables are nice sometimes and I've had good luck with the Leupold, Burris, and Redfields. Red Dots are okay in good light but have no magnification and don't gather light well in dim situations. The dot shows up well but the field doesn't.

[GrizzLeeBear]

My problem is that it has a slight long range incompatiblity problem ...

Thats because its a .357, not because it doesn't have a scope on it. I would agree with Mick and Newtire, put a red dot on it. I have a red dot on my 6" GP100that I shoot for NRA Bullseye and IHMSA Field Pistol. Also, works good for small game with light loads. I haven't deer hunted with it yet, but I would have no problem putting them in the boiler room out to 50 - 75 yds. The 357 will work at these ranges, but a "long range" caliber it is NOT.

[bearcove]

I hunted several years with a 357 ruger bh. 75 yds is about as far as I'd shoot a deer of any size. I shot about 30,000 rds in that gun and was very comfortable hunting with iron sights or scope. If you think you need a scope to hit, then maybe you should shoot a few thousand more rounds if you want to hunt with a marginal cal like a 357 mag. It will get the job done but you'll need to do your part.

[Bret4207]

I understand the scoping issue. I said I'd never do it. Then I noticed my groups becoming patterns. I put an ancient Bushnell Phantom 1.3X on my Ruger SSM 32 x 9.5". Viola!!! At 75 yards I had 1.5" groups! I'm thinking about a red dot for some of my others.

[cbrick]

I use scopes on handguns to work up loads. From the 22 hornet up through the 454 and many in between. Breakfast is yet to be served. In the years I've been using two different Burris 3x12, one with target turrets neither Burris has ever messed up in the slightest. If they should at some time in the future it says right on the box . . . Forever Warranty.

And yes, they are made in the U.S of A. I would buy them for that reason alone.

Rick

[zachskids]

My barrel is 6.5 inces and as far as my load i think a 158 would be sufficient for whitetail or mulies out to about 80 or 90 yards but I thought i would get some input.

[GSPKurt]

My barrel is 6.5 inces and as far as my load i think a 158 would be sufficient for whitetail or mulies out to about 80 or 90 yards but I thought i would get some input.

There are people that are comfortable with that caliber at that distance, but I am not one of them. :holysheep

[725]

Being able to punch out the center of the target at 90 is different than delivering a killing amout of energy at 90. Would it, could it, should it work -- maybe. I have too much respect for the animal to risk it.
725

[racepres]

I have never tried it.. But, Take it from a guy who spent half of a day in a tree on a Hog hunt... You may be setting yourself up for disappointment!! MV

[357maximum]

The 357 cannot kill nothing, better go buy a 600 nitro express at the bare minimum. At 90 yards a well placed 357 mag will bounce right off and the buck will flip you off and run away.

[racepres]

Oh contrer' the 357mag will kill like a sob... but I don't think it is the best choice at 90 yards on whitetail! I use a 357 Herrett for that job.. Respectfully.. MV

[357maximum]

Really, I bet a 200 yard lung/shoulder hit with a 357 maximum will kill them everytime also, done it several times for a 100% success rate.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................I just get tired of those that cannot poo-- pooing those that can....and do.

[leftiye]

As fer the original question "To Kill or Not to Kill" - Dumb d@#% question. KILL SOMETHING!!!!! (of course) Been restraining myself from posting that fer a week! (ain't ya proud a me?)

[725]

Mike,
He's shooting a 6 1/2 inch revolver, .357 MAG, 158 gr, not a closed breech T/C, 14 ", .357 MAX with a 200+ gr boolit. At some point lighter and slower loses energy faster than faster and heavier. Everybody's got their comfy zone, what he is describing, fails to meet mine. That said, I wouldn't stand in front of him at 90 yards either, 'cause I'm sure I'd be off to the pearly gates.
725

[MT Gianni]

I shot my first pistol killed deer at 60 yards with a 125 gr JHP 357. I am sure glad neither of us knew better. Gianni

[trickyasafox]

I'd like to hunt with a 357. someday if i find a 6in security six reasonably priced I may. I'm with 357max and Gianni though- 357 is a pretty potent cartridge. when used within limits, I can't see it not harvesting animals humanly.

[357maximum]

Mike,
He's shooting a 6 1/2 inch revolver, .357 MAG, 158 gr, not a closed breech T/C, 14 ", .357 MAX with a 200+ gr boolit. At some point lighter and slower loses energy faster than faster and heavier. Everybody's got their comfy zone, what he is describing, fails to meet mine. That said, I wouldn't stand in front of him at 90 yards either, 'cause I'm sure I'd be off to the pearly gates.
725


OK
I have a 2X on an 8inch DW-mod15 .357 MAG that I would not even begin to hesitate (with a somewhat decent rest ) to take a whitetail at 125yds with.....whatever that makes me...I stand guilty as charged.

I know what it does with the 358156/358429 at that distance as far as penetration and "hit".....and I know what I ..Me...Myself ...can do at that distance...........I have no reservations. But that is me.....


I do understand "comfy" zones.....rifles eating 60/70/80 plus grains of powder per booom are outside mine...to each their own.....I just have seen too many threads belittling the 357mag, when in the right hands from the right iron it will do anything I would ask out of that package...I may have gotten defensive as a pre-emptive strike...I apologize

[Freightman]

A man came into the shop (archery/gun) and had a picture and he had shot a WT deer at 75 yds went through, got his heart and lungs. I say this if a compond bow will kill cleanly at 75 yds surley the right boolit and load from a .357 Mag will.

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Freightman, you are comparing apples and oranges. Bullets do their thing with hydrostatic shock. Punching a hole and shocking every organ and piece of tissue around it. An arrow does its thing by hemorrhaging. It cuts a hole and allows blood to release from its normally flow, basically bleeding out.

[725]

357Max -- The man wanted some input and I'd say he has gotten some good food for thought from both sides of the coin. I know guys that have taken WT's, DRT, with 2" carry .357's. Nobody over the course of this thread said don't do it. When things get serious, I grab mine and feel well prepared. When I go to Africa, I stoke up the .458 Lott with 500 grainers and use as much "powder per boom" as I can. Here at home I'm looking forward to the .357Max and your group buy 358627.
725

[bearcove]

I think part of the problem is expectation of a easy shot. Most of my pistol shots have not been easy! Especially if shooting a wheel gun. Hunting with a contender doesn't count. I do both. IN the woods with a revolver and a moving animal, 50 yards is a long ways out there. You're not at the range! Try putting a paper plate on a stick where you plan on hunting, go 80-90 yards away walk parallel to the plate. Stop shoot a 3 shot group walk around again ... Don't use a range finder or pace it off. Do it just like when you are going hunting. Don't be suprised if you don't even hit the plate. Hitting a paper plate was considered the minimum when I grew up. HITTING IT EVERY TIME!!! Go try it! Its not as easy as it sounds.

[Bob Jones]

I picked up a Swift 1.5-4.5 last year I'm really happy with. Nice optics. Don't hear much about their scopes but they're first class telescope and binocular makers and their prices are reasonable.

[Stevejet]

Even most gun writers have commented that a rifle chambered for .357 in hot load configuration with a 157 grain bullet is probably not the best choice for deer past 100 yards. The energy bleed off is considerable at that distance for humane hunting purposes. Take the advice of the folks above who have used the cartridge and had real results!

[Newtire]

I picked up a Swift 1.5-4.5 last year I'm really happy with. Nice optics. Don't hear much about their scopes but they're first class telescope and binocular makers and their prices are reasonable.

No doubt they have made good stuff-at least the 2 that I've had. (44 man must have gotten a "Friday Scope" or two) but have always had trouble getting a sight picture easily with a higher power than 2X. Haven't tried a Swift in that power yet. They work OK?

[357maximum]

Even most gun writers have commented that a rifle chambered for .357 in hot load configuration with a 157 grain bullet is probably not the best choice for deer past 100 yards. The energy bleed off is considerable at that distance for humane hunting purposes. Take the advice of the folks above who have used the cartridge and had real results!


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$
I wonder how many "gunwriters" would have a job if they wrote....."you can do 85% of your eastern deer hunting with a 357 mag pistol/rifle, and the rest can be covered by the lowly 30/30/35rem or the .308 winny".

No you cannot shoot them in the ass with any of the above and expect great results, but for those that actually feel the need to place their shots in the "boiler room" that is all you need. Cannot feed your family writing about the classics as well as ya can "selling" the newest, greatest, and fastest I bet. Just my opinion, but then again I do not subscribe to the superdooperearsplittinloudenboomer of the month club. Deer are composed of flesh and bone not kevlar and titanium.


my nickels spent,later

Michael

[45nut]

22LR, 12GA and -06 is the true margin of sparse IMO. Of course you can sub about any centerfire rifle for the -06, even ,, yes,, the 1873 delight.. 45-70 :p

[cbrick]

357maximum,

hehe, well said and I couldn't agree more about the "gun writers". Everyone of them writes glowing reports about whatever the latest thing whatever factory puts out and advertises in the gun rag they are writing for. How long would the company continue to advertise in that magazine if the magazines writers were bad mouthing the products they are advertising?

More to the point of Stevejet's post, a 157 gr bullet??? The lighter the bullet the faster it sheds velecity, no momentum to keep it going and a 157 didn't start out with all that much momentum in the first place. Momentum is also where penetration comes from. Bullet weight which is momentum is worth twice what velocity is worth at the target according to the ballistics formulas.

Rick

[357maximum]

I agree with the above, that is why there is a whole pile of boxes containing different loads with the 35-180 GB /RCBS 35-180SIL/360-220 GB/ rcbs 35-200 boolits sitting on my bench awaiting some warmer weather testing on paper and some 100-300 yd Gong Work.

I would not shoot a buck @ 300 yards with my 357revolver, but it sure is fun to beat on 8 inch steel plates @ that distance with it. It hits the plates harder than one would think it would.