Help choosing a lube sizer

[ghgs]

I have been reading a lot trying to decide which lube sizer would be best for my needs, so I was hopping to get some input from folks more experienced than me that use them.I will only be lube sizing gas checked bullets from RCBS mould .308-165-SILH 541 and sizing them to .310. My concern is getting the best seating on the gas check so it is flat and square to the bullet base. I am not interested in fastest production but would like most accurate final result. My choices are Saeco, RCBS, Lyman or Star. I realize each have advantages and disadvantages, just trying to decide which would be best for this specific gas checked bullet. I have been using a Lee sizer and although it works ok, I would like to take the next step. Thanks.

[Beagle333]

Find you a cleaned-up old Lyman 45, and get the gas check seater plate from JonB_in_Glencoe (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?13269-JonB_in_Glencoe), and it should do all you'd want and be your cheapest way out too. Those ol' 45's will lube 30 cal stuff with the greatest of ease. 8-)

[DR Owl Creek]

I have the RCBS LAM II. I went with it because I thought the linkage looked more substantial than on the Lyman 4500. The LAM II also has a solid bottom, so I thought there would be less chance of leakage. RCBS has a much better warranty record than Lyman, if that kind of thing matters to you. All the Lyman H&I dies work in it, and I got the Lyman universal heater for mine too. Mine has worked great for me.

Somebody posted a thread within the last couple of weeks, and said they got a new LAM II through Optics Planet for somewhere around $145.00 delivered. I doubt you could beat that price too. Do a search for that thread.

Dave

[GARD72977]

The Lyman is great for rifle bullets. Mine has done a ton of those 165gr SIL bullets

[MT Chambers]

I have 3 Stars, 2 Lymans, and 2 RCBS, lubesizers, and as time goes on I use the Star more and more, even for small jobs. They seat gas checks perfectly but even more important is the "nose first" sizing on the STAR, while the other ones are often misaligned and it seems to be worse with long bullets, the Star does not have this accuracy robbing misalignment problem.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have been reading a lot trying to decide which lube sizer would be best for my needs, so I was hopping to get some input from folks more experienced than me that use them.I will only be lube sizing gas checked bullets from RCBS mould .308-165-SILH 541 and sizing them to .310. My concern is getting the best seating on the gas check so it is flat and square to the bullet base. I am not interested in fastest production but would like most accurate final result. My choices are Saeco, RCBS, Lyman or Star. I realize each have advantages and disadvantages, just trying to decide which would be best for this specific gas checked bullet. I have been using a Lee sizer and although it works ok, I would like to take the next step. Thanks.

"THE BEST" ...that needs to be defined by you.

BUT,The first thing that came to my mind was a excellent pictorial post by Ben using a custom made seating die made by Buckshot.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?130132-G-C-Seating-Tool

Is that needed ?
It all depends on the relationship between your boolit's shank and the GC you are using. If a GC 'snaps' on easily with your fingers, all you really need is any good quality Lubesizer to crimp on the GC while sizing and lubing the boolit, the sizing die holds everything square. NOW, of the 30 or so GC style boolit molds I have, there are about 3 troublesome boolits where I have to 'seat' the GC onto the boolit shank with a tool other than my fingers, All the others allow a GC to be placed on the shank easily with my fingers and then getting them squarely crimped on the boolit in any Lubesizer is really a no brainer if your lubesizer is made so it's well aligned (I have seen some that are not) and there is a adequate bevel on the 'entry' of the lubesizer die, so the GC and Boolit doesn't shift during it's initial entry.

Now with the 3 troublesome boolit molds that I have, I use my lyman 45 press with a homemade GC seater plate as Beagle333 so graciously commented on...see this thread for more info on that.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?189537-Gas-check-installation-tool-for-Lyman-45&highlight=

There are many other ways to seat a GC onto a troublesome boolit shank, and it seems that most of the ways to do that rely on the person's hand and eye coordination to seat it perfectly square...that includes my technique with the lyman 45 and my seater plate. One of the exceptions to that appears to be a custom die like Ben had made. Using such a die would seemingly eliminate any possible human error.

[catskinner]

I should point out that Lyman and RCBS sizing dies and top punches are usable in both machines. I have no experience with Star or Saeco.

[detox]

Lately I have been sizing and seating gas check "nose first" in my RCBS Lubamatic. This does a much better job of seating/squaring gas check without distorting bullet. Just remove pin in sizer and push bullet strait (nose first) thru using .308 nose punch. Reassemble the RCBS Lubamatic, then lube bullets base first using flat nose punch.

[MBTcustom]

I used a Lyman 450 for years. It does a good job of putting lube in the grooves, but I had a problem with lovern style boolits, as the press would smear them off center. Now, I know that not all Lymans do this, but as near as I can tell it's about 50/50 as to whether you are going to get a good one or not, and aparently, the LAM and the Seaco are no better.
So, I started using Lee push through dies and dip lubing the boolits. This gave me concentricity.
Unfortunately, it was really messy and slow.
Finally, sgt.mike brought me a Star he wasn't using and I got to take a close look at how that thing works. It didn't take me long to realize that this is the best of both worlds.
I can make perfectly concentric, straight boolits, lubed cleanly. The fact that I can crank them out like popcorn is just a bonus.

[detox]

Lately I have been sizing and seating gas check "nose first" in my RCBS Lubamatic. This does a much better job of seating/squaring gas check without distorting bullet. Just remove pin in sizer and push bullet strait (nose first) thru using .308 nose punch. Reassemble the RCBS Lubamatic, then lube bullets base first using flat nose punch.

I can probably lube bullets nose first with a little adjusting.

Purchase the matching .308 nose punch for your 165silh bullet. This hollow punch will put equal pressue to outer edge of gas check when seating nose first.

Use a good soft lube that will leave lube star at muzzle and sling off easily during flight. Soft Lyman Moly lube may work good with that single lube groove bullet.

Your RCBS 165 bullet is actually a .309 diameter bullet with some areas on band measuring .310. This bullet works best in some tighter Match chambered guns. For these guns a .309 sizer would be best, but I use a .310 sizer for my larger chamberd Remington. I also use Linotype alloy to make bullets tad larger.

[HeavyMetal]

Having used pretty much every lube sizer currently made, and some that aren't I'll suggest a Saeco machine for your needs.

Yes the dies are "different" than Lyman or RCBS ( this is not s reason to buy a sizer) but the way the nose punch is held in the sizer pretty much give you true alignment all the time.

I have seen plenty of mis aligned Lyman and RCBS sizers never a Saeco!

For low volume, very accurate rifle rounds the Saeco would be my choice.

Seating gas check can be quite the adventure, as seen in Jon B's link and a nice check seater that is.

I believe the Saeco still comes with a very similar device, get on Redding's web site and have a look at the sizer. It is worth what they want for a new one but you may haunt E bay for a while before buying.

[DR Owl Creek]

There was another point I was going to make in my above post about why I went with the RCBS LAM II, but forgot to make (I seem to be doing that more all the time these days), and that has to do with the availability and price of the sizing dies. I haven't actually seen a Star, so I can't comment much on the quality of those, but I originally was going to go with a SAECO lubrisizer. A buddy of mine has one, and I really liked it better than the Lyman or RCBS lubrisizers. Once I started checking about the sizes of standard dies that are available, along with the prices of those, and with the prices of the top punches as well, it pushed me back to the RCBS LAM II.

I have a number of different guns and cartridges I load for, and I "wanted" to have a number of different sizing dies to go along with those. Maybe I didn't really "need" all of these, but I currently have standard Lyman H&I sizing dies in .225", .309", .310", .311", .312", .357", .358", .359", .401", .430", .431", .452", and .459". Not all of those were available for the SAECO. Mid-South Shooters supply currently lists those Lyman H&I dies at $24.08 each. Using that price means they would cost about $313.04, plus shipping. That may seem like a lot of money, but if you figured the price of SAECO dies it would cost about half again as much, if they were availalbe. If you figured the cost of Star dies, that cost would be more than twice as much, if those would actually be available.

I also want to have a few non-standard size dies custom made, such as .226", .227", .402", .453", and .460". I believe Buckshot can do that for a little over $30.00 each for the Lyman/RCBS type dies. I haven't done that yet because of limited cashola. I can't imagine what all of those would cost for either the SAECO or Star lubrisizers.

I like to use the best equipment I can, but sometimes "good enough" is ... well ... good enough... Maybe when I win the lottery things will be different.

Dave

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I've been using a couple of Saecos for a long time. The older one is in black crinkle finish so its kind of an old-timer. They've always done good work, stayed in alignment, and had no problems. The dies are expensive and so are the top punches. I had an adapter made so I could use RCBS and Lyman top punches and that worked out well. You can have custom sizer dies made if necessary. The ability to use solid sticks or chunks of lube is for me a plus. INMHO the SAeco unit seems to be a bit more solidly built than the Lyman or the RCBS; I had occasion to try those over the years. Saeco is somewhat more costly but it has been worth it in the long run. LLS

[myg30]

ghgs, good luck with that statement " I'm only going to size .308 "! I said the same thing 4 presses,3 lubers, 20+ molds, 200 lbs ingots and lord knows the collection of "stuff" that goes with it.
My Lyman 450's seat checks just fine. With all the $ spent I should of purchased a saeco but I have flex ability with different lubes and no change over.
Good luck, enjoy and be safe. This is very addictive !

Mike

[BruceB]

I'm using a pair of 450 Lymans with satisfaction. At the start of my casting "career" almost fifty years ago, I wore out a #45....also with great satisfaction.

The .30-caliber Loverins, 311466 and 467, are among my favorite .30 bullets, and I've never had any trouble with the 450s deforming or smearing the bands on the bullets.

This should be most-apparent on the loooong 180-grain 467 bullet, but.... no such trouble here. (I fired a ten-round fifty-yard group of 0.60" with my M1A and this bullet.... iron sights!)

That would imply that the bullets are still in decent condition after the sizing process.

I also had the Loverin 311465, which cast at about 130 grains in my alloy. AFTER I sold the mould (single cavity) at the recent Nevada shoot, it occurred to me that it might have been worth trying in the M1 carbine.

Oh, well. Single-cavity casting for a "bullet-hose" Carbine is an exercise in patience, anyway. TWO cavities is bad enough!

[EDG]

Steer clear of the Orange Lyman 450s and 4500s unless you get to inspect it first.
I have 2 of the older gray 450s that work fine and have a tight ram to guide fit.
I have two of the orange 450s that are very sloppy. Since Lyman does not have much of a record fixing these things and they put them on the market like that, I would not depend on Lyman helping your if you get a turkey.

On the other hand I have 2 RCBS, one is a 1976 LAM I and the other is an LAM II. Both of my RCBS sizers are still tight. I know that RCBS stands behind their products.

[Elkins45]

I have a 45, 4500 and a LAM2. I like the built in hole for a heater of the 4500, but other than that my vote goes for the RCBS unit. There's no hole in the bottom to leak, and the top mount piston is more serviceable and appears to be stronger.

I do like the ratchet of the Lyman more than the ball ended lever of the RCBS, but that's a minor thing.

[tward]

Just my experience, not the 10 commandments. I have a Lyman 45, a Cramer (predecessor to the Saeco design) and a Saeco that is pre Redding-Saeco. The Cramer and Saeco use the std Redding-Saeco dies and top punches, to me the Cramer Saeco machines seem stronger and the linkage seems better. I also like the spring loaded lube feed system, you can do 5 -10 Boolits before cranking it again. Be aware that the handle is on the side in the Saeco systems and is very right handed. I tend to use the Lyman 45 for smaller diameter Boolits (225,258) and the Saeco for the larger diameters. Just some thoughts. Tim

[roysha]

Contact 338RemUltraMag here on CastBoolits about a new, push through, nose first sizer/luber that he is working on. I don't have any current information, but what I did get, sounds pretty much as though it will be the best of both the "Lyman/RCBS" and Star worlds.

[ghgs]

Wow, I must say that I am humbled by the response to the first question that I asked on the CastBoolits forum. I can not thank you all enough for all of the great advice you have given me. Your answers were precisely the info I needed to aid me in making the correct choice for my needs. I think I will reread everything again and tomorrow order a lube sizer. Again, thank you all. Hopefully someday I will be able to return the favor to another here.
Glen

[338RemUltraMag]

The cat is out of the bag now, yes we are working on a lubesizer, I hope to have a test machine running in 2 weeks.

[tonyjones]

I didn't let him out!

TJ