My New Popper!

[W.R.Buchanan]

After the recent thread entitled "How popular is the .44 Special?", I became aware of a gun that I didn't know existed
Thanks GLL (Jerry!)

It was a S&W 696 NO dash meaning the firing pin is located on the hammer and there is no lock on the gun. The gun is a 5 shot L framed revolver and is essentially what a Charter Arms Bulldog wants to be when it grows up. No offense intended towards Bulldog owners as they are great little guns too. They just can't take the pounding this gun can. Also the 696 is a much heavier gun at 36 oz (2lb. 3 oz.) versus the CA Bulldog at 21 oz. which means that a person could shoot more rounds in one sitting before the recoil took it's toll.

I had always kind of wanted a Bulldog, but held back because I knew from my experience with the .44 Special that the gun would be a great carry gun but you weren't going to shoot one very much, and I wanted to shoot mine a bunch.

I am pretty stoked about this gun as they are pretty rare guns in CA and the only reason why I got this one is because the owner lived in CA and we did a "Private Party Transfer" Thru my local FFL. Other wise it is now not on the CA Gun List and therefore you can't import one into CA. The gun is no longer made.

The gun needed a thorough cleaning which it got this evening and I must say it is made a lot better than any other Smith I have owned. I have never in my life seen a bore so smooth. It looks like it was literally Polished and Chromed, and how the previous owner got leading in the forcing cone and first 1" of the barrel is beyond me. He obviously didn't understand Cast Boolits or how to clean the gun as I removed nearly all of the leading in a few minutes with a bore brush and some elbow grease.

The gun came with Cocobolo grips which were very pretty but not very practical, so I installed a Hogue one piece Rubber Grip which is much more comfortable.

In anticipation of this guns arrival, I got 4 HKS Speed Loaders, 2 HKS Speed Loader Pouches, and 2 Holsters. (yet to arrive) I got a Bladetech Kydex plastic holster for drilling and when I go to Front Sight with the gun. And I got a Mernickle FC13DA Field Carry leather Holster with pretty much full coverage and a Thumb Break Retention. All of this stuff pretty much rounds out everything needed to field this gun.

Anyway here are some pics of the gun before I got it and after the new grip and cleaning,

Randy

[littlejack]

Great lookin piece Randy. I like the leather also.
Regards
Jack

[Duster340]

Nice piece. She's a beaut! I love my little Bulldog, but would love to add something like that to the herd! Congrats.

[Hunter]

Wow, that is a beautiful revolver.

[StrawHat]

Nice looking revolver!

For something a little svelter, S&W has introduced a new 5 shot "L" frame, the Model 69. It has the half lug and is chambered for the 44 Magnum. Not sure if I would fire Magnums but it would be dandy for 44 Specials!

[smokeywolf]

A wonderful acquisition Randy. I AM envious.

[osteodoc08]

I love the leather and the grips in that picture. The rounded butt grips like the ones in the lower right picture always seemed to hurt my hand and I prefer the square butt style grips.

A very nice piece indeed.

[Petrol & Powder]

I wish there were more 44 Specials DA revolvers available on the market. It's a great concept that seems to have been overtaken by the 44 magnum craze.

[W.R.Buchanan]

P&P: I think you are going to see more .44 Specials being made as the .44 Magnum has been overshadowed by more powerful guns. The main urge to buy a .44 Mag is and pretty much always has been, the "I have the biggest most powerful handgun there is," syndrome. We all know that is no longer a true statement.

Companies are always looking for Market Niches to fill. Ruger is particularly good at this and the fact that Lipsey's pushes them into making runs of guns that they wouldn't normally do, shows that they are open minded about what the public actually wants.

Their runs of Blackhawk .44 Specials that sold out in 2 days for the first 500 and 3 days for the second 1,000 guns proved to Ruger that there was a market and if you haven't noticed these are now standard items in the Ruger line of Sixguns. Usually sold thru Lipsey's.

I think you will see more of these guns being made. I personally don't see why Smith Dropped this gun from their line up.

What I don't understand about big companies (not just gun companies but Car Companies etc.) is why they don't see the viability of short specialized runs of unique models, and produce them in limited numbers. Some outfit do this, but the big ones just don't seem to care.

This 696 is certainly a specialized model. However it is pretty popular. It is also assembled on a common L frame and the only thing peculiar to this gun is the barrel and the cylinder.

Why not do a run of 1-200 once every year or so to keep the aficionados happy?

In any retail business, the simple fact is the more products you have for sale in your line, the more you WILL sell. With the specialized products the problem is finding production time to work them in. I always do this when I am slow. I don't believe for one second that a company like S&W doesn't have some slow times.

Everybody has busy and slow times!

Randy

[9.3X62AL]

Randy, there is a great deal of good sense in what you have posted. I don't know that S&W or Ruger have had much in the way of "slow times" for the past 5-6 years, though. I think most manufacturers that service the firearms market and its related hobbies have been swamped since the ObamaNation came online. I won't devolve into a rant about how poorly a hungry market is getting served, suffice it to say that the makers and the users are NOT on the same page of the book--haven't been for quite a while--and won't be on the same page for the foreseeable future.

That said......there are a few S&W or Ruger handgun examples I would like to acquire, and I have other safe queens at the LGS to create capital to obtain same.

1) I never warmed up to the 327 Federal, largely on account of the brass situation for the caliber (the lack thereof). Had S&W brought out a K- or L-frame 6-shot revolver in this caliber and made it with a field-length barrel--6"--I would have snagged one immediately. Ruger got close with their GP-100, but limited it to a 4.2" barrel.....and closer with the Blackhawk and its 5.5" tube. I already have a BH in 30 Carbine, though--so a BH would have been duplicative for me. Dunno what the issues were with the SP-101/327 Federal cylinders, but I wanted no part of that drama. S&W limited their 327 Federals to belly guns for CCW. All of these manufacturing choices have left me scratching my head. Truth to tell, for my uses a good-condition I/J frame 32 S&W Long with 4" barrel would be fine. I already have a S&W 32 Magnum I adore (Model 16-4 x 6"), and the aforementioned Carbine BH. Most importantly, I have BRASS for all of the above--and I'm unsure about present and future status of the 327 Federal commercially.

2) A S&W Model 29-series revolver with 4" barrel would be nice to have. Lots of these around, many with uber-fat throats and skinny grooves. Have pin gauges/will travel on used examples, the more recent editions tend to be a bit more dimensionally-tractable. I am unfond of the Glory Hole safeties on these newer contraptions, but they can be ignored as easily as can the receiver safeties on newer Marlin leverguns.

[Petrol & Powder]

Randy- 10-4 on the specialized runs selling out. Just guessing here, but I feel it might just come down to pure profit. If I can sell every single gun I make from the standard line, why bother to run special editions? Even with the higher premiums they command, they may not be worth the effort when the company is making money anyway.

For products like cars & guns; the place where special editions really shine are in almost saturated markets.

When you have a successful product that has been selling well but the market is slowing down, you make a model that is just a little bit different. The changes aren't enough to require a lot of re-tooling and you make a limited run so that the "special edition" appears to be exclusive. You then charge a premium for the super special very limited edition, basically vanilla model, that is almost identical to the first ten million versions you sold. That allows you to boost sales in an almost saturated market without a major production change.

For years S&W made both 38 Special and .357 mag versions of K-frames (model 10's & 13's - 64's & 65's - 15's & 19's etc.). However in the L & N frames - they were almost all magnums. Yes, they made model 21's 24's and 624's but the 29's and 629's FAR outnumbered them. I wish there was a bigger market for 44 Specials (or at least someone thought there was a potentially bigger market :wink:)

[HeavyMetal]

the 44 special has been a favorite revolver round for me for the last 40 years, Target Bulldog with adjustable sights and a 4 inch barrel sure makes it easy to use.


The 696 is a great gun, better when you get a "real"set of grips on it, the factory cocobolo's are like shootiing a lubed bannana peel,LOL!

If one of these comes my way you bet it will get bought if the price is not "California Original" !

However I will side with 9.3x62AL in the desire for a tad longer barrel, 6 inch might be to long ( but should be available) 4 and 5 with the full underlug is the way to go.

a five shot 44 mag? Once again some dummy in marketing got to make a decision he wasn't qualified to make!

No one will carry this with full house loads in it, to much recoil to drag out of the air for a repeat shot, in my opinion.

The special would have been the smart choice for the new 69 but S&W hasn't been smart since Clinton was in office, LOL!

OK enough soap box!

A nice gun that will make us all envious for sure, and a good buy for you.

Put it on paper when you can would like to se what she can do.

By the way Lyman's 429348 can be a blast in this caliber and I got in a Group buy here about 3 years ago on a copy of lymans heavier full wadcutter as well, Mountain mold made that I think, got a 4cav in brass.

Stack 8 or 9 targets on top of each other and shoot for group, watch the target as it gets hit, you'll actually see confetti come off the back of it with both those boolits.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Heavy Metal: I agree with the M69 Magnum? Why? I think the reasoning is that nobody knows about the .44 Special. but everyone knows about the Magnum from the movies. That's funny too since in one of the later movies Harry states he is using Special loads in the gun.

What the under informed buyer doesn't realize is that with these guns there is a serious price to be paid on the back side when you shoot heavy loads.

I just went back and re read Brian Pearce's article in Hnadloader #236. He mentions the 696 in detail and compares it to the Bulldog and states they are good for anything you want to put in them. The gun is much stronger than a Bulldog and much heavier too.

However he also states, and I agree, that shooting heavy loads in this gun is not going to be fun. Smiths hit the web of your hand very hard (a lesson learned from my M29) and the extra recoil is not worth the extra 100 fps. My heavy loads will be around 900 fps from this gun with 429244 GC's, and will only be used sparingly in practice and then in the field as back ups.

The gun will mainly be used with light loads of 5-5.5 gr of W231 and 200 grain ish boolits, or the same charge against 250 gr ish Keith style boolits. These loads are all in the 700-800 fps range and even if used as defensive anti personnel rounds they would probably go thru three men before they stopped.

More than enough Horse Power with this gun, even with the light loads! It is definitely not a .38!

Note: the gun now has Hogue Grips on it, since I saw no reason to even try the pretty cocobolo grips. They look nice but the position your hand is in was not conducive to any kind of good shooting.

Randy

[Piedmont]

The .44 Special has never been a good seller. It has always been an aficionado's cartridge. Back in the day's of the .44 Associates Colt only made 500 of the first generation SAAs in .44 Special. Of course there were Colt DAs and S&Ws, but the N frame .44 Specials died on the vine in the 1960s from lack of sales. People bought the .44 magnums thinking they had more versatility, just like the buying public thinks it is getting more for its money by buying a .357 magnum instead of a .38 special.

I was amazed there was a market for the small frame DA .357s. My theory is more people are owners than shooters. More want bragging rights or implied versatility than a practical firearm lacking in pizzaz.

There is an illusion that the .44 Specials sell when the special runs sell out, but that is pent up demand. You always value something more highly when it is gone. So periodically small runs are made and they sell out. The 696s not only didn't sell well, they were forcing cone breakers.

You have to be a gun guy to appreciate certain cartridges and the .44 Special is one.

When you see a .44 Special stay as a normal sales offering, you will know they are selling well enough to do so. Charter Arms sells enough to keep them in the line. Charter arms is not a big gun company, though, so the actual numbers might not be high from their factory.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Piedmont: I have heard about the forcing cone area, but have yet to learn what level of load intensity will do this. Pretty sure it was a result of firing lots of heavy loads thru the gun. This was the one point that Brian didn't address in his article, he made mention of how the 5 shot cylinder with the locking notches in between the chambers was used as it was much stronger. After looking closely at mine I see no reason why the barrel stub couldn't have been made about .060 in diameter bigger which would have solved this problem permanently.

I have also looked at making a small ring to press fit onto the barrel stub to reinforce it.

I have .44 Specials loaded at all of the nominal pressure levels. They were done mainly to shoot thru my SBH and BH Bisley's which can take whatever I dish out. Those guns weigh 46-50 oz. respectively. The Smith is a 36 oz. gun and wouldn't be used with the heavy loads anyway so maybe all of this talk about forcing cone breakage is moot in my case. Also when I pass the gun along the new owner will be made aware of the issue so he doesn't kill it.

I have to do some more research on this subject so that I understand exactly what causes the failures. I'm sure they can be avoided.

I also wonder (GLL) if this problem was not addressed thruout the entire series IE; 696, 696-1, 696-2.

On another note: I have been to several different local gun shops lately and every one had at least one CA bulldog on display.

Randy

[Petrol & Powder]

Now if we could get Ruger to make a 44 Special GP-100..............

[DR Owl Creek]

Randy,

That's a beautiful gun! I've always had a weakness for shorter-barreled, big bore revolvers.

Dave

[Piedmont]

Randy, I think I can offer a good guess, or at least tell you what I would and wouldn't do. You might do some searches on the S&W Forum, since that is where I have read about this in the past. One fellow sent his 696 back to S&W with a cracked forcing cone and they said they were out of barrels and offered a deal on a current model in a different caliber. So I think it is a known weak point to S&W and doubt we will see this model offered again in this configuration. However, the new L frame .44 mag has to have a larger barrel shank or some other way of strengthening it so they could offer a new modified 696 and make it work.

I would avoid light bullet, high velocity loads. I am thinking Corbon Plus P offerings and any boutique ammo with 200 grain or lighter bullets at high velocity. These are the type of loads that caused the forcing cone problems with K frame .357 magnums--light bullets at high pressures. The theory was they hit the forcing cone at higher velocities than heavy bullet loads and that is what cracked them.

I don't think you would have trouble with heavier bullet loads even hopped up a bit, though you and I both have the same opinion of the recoil characteristics of DA revolvers, so I doubt you will hop them up much before calling "uncle".

I think you would be on safe ground with 200 grain cast bullets up to 800 fps. and 250s up to about 1,000 fps., and the latter is way more than my hand would like.

I shoot a 250 Keith at 800+fps from my 6.5" M624 (6.5 of Unique) and don't want any more recoil than that. My hand is the problem, not the strength of the N frame. In the future I may be going to 200 grain bullets just to attenuate recoil, since all I am doing is fun shooting, not deer killing.

[Petrol & Powder]

I like the concept of the 44 Special L-frame but the cylinder diameter and the diameter of the barrel shank seem to be limiting factors. I totally agree with Piedmont's K frame forcing cone comparison. I believe the L-frame is plenty strong for 44 Special if you avoid the light/fast combination that was so hard on the .357 mag. K-frames.
I'd settle for a larger supply of N-frames with real 44 special cylinders and tapered barrels.

[Grizzly Adams]

the 44 special has been a favorite revolver round for me for the last 40 years, Target Bulldog with adjustable sights and a 4 inch barrel sure makes it easy to use.


The 696 is a great gun, better when you get a "real"set of grips on it, the factory cocobolo's are like shootiing a lubed bannana peel,LOL!

If one of these comes my way you bet it will get bought if the price is not "California Original" !

However I will side with 9.3x62AL in the desire for a tad longer barrel, 6 inch might be to long ( but should be available) 4 and 5 with the full underlug is the way to go.

a five shot 44 mag? Once again some dummy in marketing got to make a decision he wasn't qualified to make!

No one will carry this with full house loads in it, to much recoil to drag out of the air for a repeat shot, in my opinion.

The special would have been the smart choice for the new 69 but S&W hasn't been smart since Clinton was in office, LOL!

OK enough soap box!

A nice gun that will make us all envious for sure, and a good buy for you.

Put it on paper when you can would like to se what she can do.

By the way Lyman's 429348 can be a blast in this caliber and I got in a Group buy here about 3 years ago on a copy of lymans heavier full wadcutter as well, Mountain mold made that I think, got a 4cav in brass.

Stack 8 or 9 targets on top of each other and shoot for group, watch the target as it gets hit, you'll actually see confetti come off the back of it with both those boolits.

Maybe the guy in marketing was thinking about people like me. I don't understand the almost cult like following that the 44 Special has. What is the advantage over the magnum if your sticking it in a frame that will handle the mag. Nearly every load I shoot is 44 Special category, but I wouldn't want to limit myself to just that power. I don't mean to offend, I am just trying to understand what advantage the Special offers. Randy, I think you have a great gun and I am happy for you. But for me I would like the M69, I have a 4" 629 that is my trail/woods gun that gives me great versatility, but I think the 69 is an interesting option IMHO.

[Petrol & Powder]

Grizzly, can't disagree with the reality of the frame sizes. In a perfect world the cylinder for a 44 Special would be just long enough for the Special cartridge to chamber, that would save weight. The barrel would be tapered, saving more weight. There's no need for a heavy barrel to counter excessive recoil if you don't have excessive recoil or long cylinders if you're never going to use that last 1/8".
And yes, the 44 Special does have a cult like following. In fact, I couldn't find a 44 Special that I liked for a decent price and opted for a 44 magnum Mountain gun instead.
I have a pile of 38 Special revolvers and people are always asking me why I don't want revolvers chambered in .357 magnum? The short answer is: I don't want to shoot magnum rounds. I know I can shoot 38 Special cartridges in a .357 (but that doesn't stop others from reminding me of that obvious fact every time the topic comes up!). I just prefer the shorter chamber. I completely understand the logic of buying a magnum revolver so that you can have the option of shooting both special & magnum cartridges in the same gun. Some of us just don't really want that option all that much. I guess we're feeding into the cult like status.

[Grizzly Adams]

Petrol & Powder, I think we may both be looking at the same coin from two different sides. I agree with you that the L frame is strong enough for a 44 Special, evidently S&W thought it was strong enough for a 44 mag., hence the model 69. No I don't think anyone will or should feed it a steady diet of magnums, but it just might make you feel better walking in bear country.

[PWS]

I was really excited by the introduction of the 69, having a Flat Top .44Spl and a 4" 686 Smith, and wondering what kind of offspring they would produce. The 686 is the largest pistol that "disappears" on my hip but a .357 just doesn't throw the lead of a .44. I've been eyeballing the 696s but found a NIB 69 for $675 and couldn't resist.

I don't have any experience with a 696 but the 69 is definitely NOT just an L-frame 44. It's much more like a 4" N-frame with a skinny cylinder. Smith redesigned the front of the frame and the barrel is noticeably larger than the 686.

FWIW, I like the 69 but don't know that it's a direct replacement for a 696.

[Petrol & Powder]

Petrol & Powder, I think we may both be looking at the same coin from two different sides. I agree with you that the L frame is strong enough for a 44 Special, evidently S&W thought it was strong enough for a 44 mag., hence the model 69. No I don't think anyone will or should feed it a steady diet of magnums, but it just might make you feel better walking in bear country.

Couldn't say that better. You hit that nail on the head.

[Grizzly Adams]

PWS, congrats, I personally have not laid hand on one, but I am keeping my eyes open in my travels. It may be considered a gun for a certain nitch, but some of use have anitch to scratch ;-)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Thanks Griz,,, I have been watching the Lemans race all last night and most of today while handling the gun and it is starting to feel really good in the hand.

I signed up for the S&W Forum and asked about the Forcing Cones on these guns. Awaiting an answer by someone who knows what he is talking about. And will pass on anything I hear.

I personally don't think this is an issue unless you try to turn the gun into a Magnum. I also don't see how you could shoot more than a few heavy loads in these guns.

They are S&W L framed guns, and as such, the grip on S&W's hit the web of your hand really hard under heavy recoil. The good thing about a 250 gr .44 cal boolit is that it doesn't have to be traveling at Warp Speed to get the job done.

My Axiom of a 250 gr boolit at 900 fps will go thru an Elk,,, translates easily to 750-800 fps will go thru three men. So what more do I need.

Still,,, I want to know where the limit is.

Randy

[Grizzly Adams]

Randy, thanks I am interested in what you think about it, and how it performs. I agree you don't really need a Mag. to get the job done, but it's nice to know S&W says it will handle it.
Grizz

[W.R.Buchanan]

After posting on the S&W forum I have concluded that the talk about Cracked Forcing Cones is primarily Internet BS. However,,,

I then got ahold of Brian Pearce and talked to him about the problem. He told me that S&W had chambered some of these guns in .44 Mag and they held up just fine. Hence the Model 69. The high pressure is not a problem.

The problem of forcing cones cracking similar to the Model 19 in .357, had more to do with light jacketed bullets hitting the cone at higher velocities.

But what really causes the problem is shooting a jacketed bullet into a forcing cone with lead build up.


I have in the distant past been guilty of cleaning lead residue out with a jacketed bullet, but that was on my M29.

Obviously I will not be doing this with this gun.

It always pays to talk to them that knows.

Randy

[Piedmont]

I have a high opinion of Brian Pearce, but wouldn't "them that knows" be the ones that cracked their forcing cones?

[GLL]

VERY nice find ! Especially difficult to come by in California ! Envious ! :)

As much as I like the 696 the 4" 624 (or blue 24-3) is still my favorite ! :smile:

They wear Pachmayer Grippers when in the field.

http://www.fototime.com/C2327F6F5598F67/orig.jpg

Jerry

[W.R.Buchanan]

Piedmont: Not if they didn't know why it happened. And also where exactly are they, bet they're too embarrassed to fess up.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK I got to shoot my new popper today and ran about 40 rounds thru it. All shots were at a used paper target (.22 holes) at 25 yards using a two hand hold over a tool bag. All were single action and the SA pull on this gun is perfect.

The various loads were 190 gr Magma SWC boolits with 5.4 gr of W231. These were the first shots I tried and I got a Ten shot group that was about 6" But it was also 6" below the point of aim. I am estimating these loads at @ 875-900 fps based on the loading data I have and extrapolating for the difference in barrel length..

Second group I shot was some of my 260 gr solids from my Mihec H&G503 mould over the same 5.4 gr charge of W231. These were right on target but about 2" to the right and I was starting to tighten the group up a little now we're down to 4"! I am estimating this load producing @750 fps. I might bump that up to 6.0 gr just to get it to 800 fps which I think would still be comfortable to shoot but a little more powerful.

Next I shot another group using the same boolits with the Pentagonal HP. They were even tighter and were the best group shot today and even included a sight correction!

I'm really starting to like this gun a lot. There is NO Leading Whatsoever, and after making a slight windage correction the thing is on target at 25 yards, and for any intended usage of the gun it is dead on and I can hit with it,,, Every time!

Recoil is enough that I won't be pursuing much heavier loads. It is comfortable to shoot at this level and I can advance the accuracy by shooting it more without developing a flinch. With loads that were 20-30 % heavier the recoil would become a problem immediately. I doubt there would be much to be gained by increasing the velocity much more, especially since I can hit with it now.

I will try some heavier loads just to see what they do, and how they feel but I think where I'm at right now is probably really close to ideal... The good thing about a 250 gr boolit is it doesn't have to be traveling that fast to be effective.

I am pretty happy with what I did today and am liking this gun a lot. Considering that it is a 3" barreled gun my results at 25 yards were very encouraging. I know I can do better.

Here's a pics of the best group I shot 3"? it was 6 shots and then a sight adjustment to the left for the remaining four shots.

You can see that if you omit the Three Shots to the far right this is a 3" group. This better than I expected and I know there is more there. :mrgreen:

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well an update.

My Blade-Tech holster came yesterday for the Popper. It fits like a glove, and this holster will be part of a gun belt with all the speed loaders and dump bag to be used in the local IDPA shoot. Still waiting for the Uncle Mikes Duty Belt to arrive so I can assemble this system.

I have the same set up for both my Glocks and it is just not that expensive to set up a gun belt for each one. The belts themselves are $11. I might add that I use $12 tool bags from Lowes for my range bags for each of these guns. That way everything related to each gun is in one place.

This gun is to be used as a light competition gun, and as a field backup or walking around gun. The second is why I have a Mernickle holster coming as well.

More on this as we progress.

Randy

[TXGunNut]

Very nice revolver, Randy. The 44 Special is special indeed but most folks just don't understand.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Another Update. today I got the rest of the IDPA system in IE the Uncle Mikes belt, dump bag, and Bianchi belt loops.

I am ready for Sunday at the IDPA Shoot in Santa Barbara.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ok,,, I shot the 696 in 2 of the 4 stages offered at the IDPA shoot yesterday. one was laying on the ground and shooting thru some tubes at relatively close targets. You only got 3 shots and had to have a dummy round in as well. This gave the pistol guys fits. I just pulled the trigger again.

Did OK on that stage.

The other stage was 3 strings of 5 shots. You shot a close steel 7 yds, then a 15 yd steel and then you had to shoot one of three smaller targets at 25 yards. Then you reloaded and shot the whole thing again and then again. So you could possibly get out of each round with only 3 shots but had two extras if needed. I failed to complete this even once, and more practice is definitely in order.
I found out real quick that I couldn't hit jack shooting Double Action. Switched to SA and started hitting but I never did hit the far targets.

The gun functioned perfectly,, I sucked.

I did better on the other stages that required 10-20 + rounds. I shot My Glock 21 on those. I was 3rd out of 20 on both of those stages.

I must now reload a bunch of ammo for this gun. I has showed a liking for the heavier boolits so that's what we'll do for now.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Another update.: the Mernickle Holster came today for the 696. This is FC13 V and has the thumb break retention.

This holster like the other one that I have for my Ruger Bisleys is nice. Fits on the belt well and stays put during the draw. the thumb break opens easily and recloses with a satisfying snap. Well made hardware.

The gun fits it like it was made for it,,, Oops, I guess it was made for it! Duh? :veryconfu

This will be my Field Carry Holster for walking around where I can open carry or in the Jeep.

Pretty happy with this one. [smilie=w:

Randy

[Love Life]

Send that bad boy of to Bruce Warren at BC Armory and get the ultimate duty tune. Reliable, safe to carry, and will make hitting he 25 yd targets mo' better. I usually don't recommend trigger work and stuff, but his magic on revolvers is phenomenal and a very good thing to have done.


I have close to 10,000 rds through my Model 28 since had his Ultimate Duty Tune done and it is my main desert romping companion.

Just something to consider.

Target stocks also help me hit longer distances with my S&W revolvers. The way the stocks fit in my hands, it feels like the gun is resting butt heavy and gets me on target fast and allows me to hold the revolver extended out longer due to the balance. Seems to work for me with both 6 and 4 inch barrels.

[W.R.Buchanan]

LL I think this gun had some trigger work done on it by the last owner. It supposedly only had <100 rounds thru it before he sold it but the DA trigger pull is sweet and the SA pull is about 2 lbs and breaks like glass.

I'll take it to Front Sight in Sept or Oct and get drilled up on it. My goal for this gun would be to be able to draw and hit a target closing on me at 25 yards. Right now I can hit at 25 it just takes more time to execute. It needs to happen in about <2 seconds to be safe.

Hoping that anything hit at least once in the face with a 260 gr boolit will divert. :lovebooli Still have to connect.

Randy

[Love Life]

How big a target? Human torso/echo target?

[TXGunNut]

Some new S&W's have pretty decent triggers but most all improve over time. Could be sweet indeed after a few thousand rounds. Sounds like all you need is trigger time, one shot drills help cut the time for the first shot. Nice holster!

[W.R.Buchanan]

The 25 yard targets I was shooting at were 6 x 12 rectangles. The closer steels were 12 x 18 torsos and I had no problem with them.

I couldn't hit anything DA for the simple reason that I was trying to shoot too fast. I switched to SA on the first reload, and hit everything except the 25 yard targets with the first shot.

I was also the first person to shoot this stage and I was kind of wound up, but still I could have cleaned the 3 stages with my Glocks in 3-4 shots for each portion of the whole stage.

I just need more trigger time with the gun. It will come around.

Yes the Mernickle Holster is pretty nice and it fits the gun well. I keep the gun in that holster when storing it so soon it will fit perfectly. They do tend to mould to the gun quickly.

LL: when I can hit the 6 x 12 knockdowns frequently at 25 yds. then a man sized target closing on me will be pretty easy to hit. I doubt any remotely intelligent person would run directly at gun fire but you never know. Bears however will do it,,, and if I don't have a rifle hopefully I will have this gun or one of my Bisleys. I wouldn't think of going out into the wilderness/desert Jeeping without being armed, however the places we go it would be more likely we'd be dealing with 2 legged vermin than bears..

People tend to get a little crazy in the wilderness as they feel nobody is watching. You have to be prepared for anything.

We stopped going to Anza Borrego for this exact reason. Too many ethnics moving thru there and it is just plain not safe any more. Art can comment on this as he lives close to the border.

The best defense is ALWAYS avoidance. I have managed to not kill anyone this lifetime. However with the way things are going in our society, there is no guarantee of anything. Being prepared is the best course of action.

Having a clear line drawn in your mind defining where you will or will not act must be in place long before you need to act. When the time comes you will only have seconds to react, and if you hesitate you might end up in second place.

As you know there is no "second place."

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's a little update for all. I mentioned in an earlier Post that I talked to Brian Pearce about the 696 forcing cone issue.

Well,, last night my new edition of "Handloader" arrived and low and behold an article on the 696 and 396 .44 Special Revolvers Explaining all the do's and don'ts along with a bunch of loads for the gun.

Now, I don't want to take credit for this idea, but I'm going to take credit for this idea. As I talked to him about 3 months ago and usually that's how far the magazine articles are ahead of the release.

As usual Brian's articles are well written and easy to understand and always have useful information.

Randy

[Frank46]

First 44 special I bought was a S&W 624 6.5" bbl and is a sweet gun to shoot. next was a S&W 24-3 with the 3" bbl and round butt grips. The last was a S&W 24-3 with the 4" bbl and I think the 4" is about the best for just about any shooting. Gonna get the gold dot SDM front sights for all three as my old eyes need something better than the S&W front sight to focus on. And yes indeed the 44 special has a large cult following check out the threads on the S&W forum and you will see many of them. Frank

[Love Life]

I will always regret not buying one of the S&W Snub nose 44 special revolvers OnceABull was selling at the NCBS. Great prices on them to boot!!!

[rking22]

Randy, thanks for "reminding him" :) I read that article the day I got the mag, probably will drop my unique load back(from 7.5) to 7.0 as he shows. I have had a 696 since the fall they came out and have no intention of letting it go, or breaking it. Very nice revolvers, and seems to be "enough" gun for anything I am likely to encounter.

[crabo]

I am going to get the 69. I borrowed a friends 3" N frame and I want a longer sight radius.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Crabo: the 69's are .44 Magnum as well which could be of use. In that light a gun 900 fps would still be good enough for most anything. There is also an article in that issue of Handloader about Light .44 Magnum loads which could prove very useful.

These guns are lighter, 36 oz for the 696 and about 37 for the 69 so shooting full house Magnums will get old pretty fast. Anyone who has shot big S&W's very much knows they hit the web of your hand pretty hard. This is part of the reason I sold my M29 and got a Ruger SBH Bisley to shoot magnum loads out of. It is just easier on your hands.

My own personal primary use is for the 696 is shooting local IDPA matches and .44 Special is fine for that at any speed. Right now I've been loading 5.4 gr of 231 with a 250 gr SWC, shooting to the sights, but the short barrel does require more practice, and I suck beyond about 20 yards.

Also the 7.0 gr load of Unique with a 250 gr SWC is a pretty formidable defense round even at only 800 fps from one of these 3" bbls.

Great guns and even though I had to pay more than I wanted for mine I don't regret it one Iota. The fit and finish on this gun is superb and it is a joy to handle and shoot.

Randy

[salvadore]

My Mountain Lite is punishing with the Anderton bullet at around 750fps.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/44s.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/44s.jpg.html)

[crabo]

Randy, my friend has several 696s. I looked at buying one and then having a barrel put on it, but by then it was getting stupid expensive. I shoot a PC 7 1/2 629 alot, but it is too much to pack around on your belt. The 69 seems like it would be great for packing. I have a few 44 molds.

I cannot fall in love with a SA revolver, no matter how hard I try. I love looking at them, but can't find the love.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Love for anything can be elusive,, You have to feel it, before it can happen.

I understand this perfectly. I remember quite a few women that just couldn't warm up to my advances.
Shame too, as they didn't know what they were missing. [smilie=p:

Randy