Polishing a sizer die?

[MGySgt]

The only sizer dies I have are from Lyman and I was reading a thread about Star sizers and the way you use lead shot to close off the holes that you really don't want lub to come through.

Ok - this 44-250 and the multiple crimp groves was giving me a fit with the way the holes are aranged in the die. No matter how I adjusted it I would get lub in them. So I took out the die, cleaned it up. There is 2 columns of 3 holes at 180 degrees and 2 columns of 4 holes at 180 degrees. There just wan't any way, because of overlap and not enough at the top of the die not to get grease into the crimp groves.

So, I cut open a #4 shot shell and used the shot to closed off the hole I didn't want to use. Worked fine in theroy. But I set one of them too deep and it was marking the bullet.

Ok, punch it out and try again. Warning - Don't use Copper plated shot (yea I know it was stupid).

Now I have a burr on the inside of the die where the copper plated shot pushed it.

Now what? It sized .4315. Can't just buy them any place. Die is runined right? - Wrong.

800 grit wet/dry sand paper on a split dowl and spin it is a cordles drill. I tried it on a .430 die first to see how much it would increase the size. I could not tell a difference. So I cleaned upi the .4315 die and spun it with 800 grit.

Nice and shiny inside, the bullets size as if they were butter and no more gouge on the side of the bullet from the burr.

Oh the size - well I may have done this one longer - it is now a .432, which is what I wanted to begin with.

I have a .4605 that is rough as a cob on the inside - It is getting polished next!

Things I learned - DON'T use copper plated shot. Polishing the die makes for easier sizing.

I still have the same problem as I had originally and I don't know what I am going to do to fix it. Probably just live with it.

Drew

[imashooter2]

The instructions I read on the Magma engineering site call for drilling out shot you wish to remove...

http://www.magmaengineering.com/pdf/StarSizerInstructions.pdf


Plugging dies: Bullets of the same diameter but different lube grooves can be sized with the same die if the plugs are
changed each time, You cm also purchase a die for each style of bullet you intend to size.
(A) Again use #7 or #8 shot. Use a brass hammer or punch to firmly seat the shot, use two shot pellets if
necessary.
(B) To remove plugs drill out the shot with a #45 or smaller drill. Caution: never attempt to remove plug with a
punch or you may damage the die.
(C) To size me different type slugs (same diameter but different groove spacing ) separate sizing dies will be
required.
(D)Always use a fine layer of oil or grease to install a die. If not possible damage may occur.

[slughammer]

Ok - this 44-250 and the multiple crimp groves was giving me a fit with the way the holes are aranged in the die. No matter how I adjusted it I would get lub in them. So I took out the die, cleaned it up. There is 2 columns of 3 holes at 180 degrees and 2 columns of 4 holes at 180 degrees. There just wan't any way, because of overlap and not enough at the top of the die not to get grease into the crimp groves.

I still have the same problem as I had originally and I don't know what I am going to do to fix it. Probably just live with it.

Drew

I know what you mean with all the holes in the Lyman Die, I usually adjust the stop so the boolit gets no lube in the groove and then slowly adjust it down until the lube groove is aligned with the top set of holes. Gotta keep the pressure low because there is most likely a set of holes aligned with the boolit base. You probably already tried adjusting it that way though? And then the boolit wasn't going down in the die and sizing enough?

FWIW the Star sizer uses counter bored holes, as mentioned the counterbores are about the same size as 7.5 shot, the thru hole is only about .040 dia. This forms a step that would hold the shot, while letting it be recessed to the outer surface of the die. It also keeps the shot from pushing into the die. (Though you could probably pound hard enough to extrude lead through the .040 hole!)

If you are brave, you could try the same idea on your existing die by using a drill bit to cut either a slight countersink or a counterbore. Try a BB size piece of lead and then file the excess lead from the outside of the die so you can install it in the press. Another idea would be small soft rivets.

[fecmech]

On my lyman size dies I have cut bandaid like strips from aluminum pop cans wide enough to cover the holes I want covered and just short of going around the die. I then use the aluminum tape to tape the strip tightly to the die so the lube does not get under it. The tape by itself will not work cause the pressure of the lube punches a hole thru it. Another alternative is # 2 lead shot hammered into the hole and carefully flattened on the outside to allow the die to go into the sizer. I have dies set up both ways. Nick

[MGySgt]

I have tried to adjust so that the base side of the lube hole would just start into the lube grove, but then the front driving band (in front of the crimp groves) did not get sized.

I am leaning towards Nic's idea of swaging over size shot in until it just enters the hole and filing off the excess. I really don't want to get a drill involved. If I screwed that up I would have to purchase a .432 sizer or hone out my .430 die.

Right now I am just living with the lube in the bottom 2 crimp grooves.

Drew

[fecmech]

I have tried to adjust so that the base side of the lube hole would just start into the lube grove, but then the front driving band (in front of the crimp groves) did not get sized.

I am leaning towards Nic's idea of swaging over size shot in until it just enters the hole and filing off the excess. I really don't want to get a drill involved. If I screwed that up I would have to purchase a .432 sizer or hone out my .430 die.

Right now I am just living with the lube in the bottom 2 crimp grooves.

Drew
Drew--If you don't have the shot I could mail you a enough to do a few dies, I have an old baby food jar full that a fellow gave me. Nick

[MGySgt]

Drew--If you don't have the shot I could mail you a enough to do a few dies, I have an old baby food jar full that a fellow gave me. Nick

Nick - I am going to use your 'Bandaid' method it sounds like it will work and probably work better then shot.

Thanks for the offer!

Drew

[Blackwater]

If any of you have the Lewis/Lyman Lead Remover that has the rubber thingie that you screw in the front screw to bell outward, have you tried that wrapped with wet-or-dry sandpaper to lap out a mould? Just seemed like a possibility, as long as you run it in & out to keep from inducing (much) taper into the die .... or would it???

[beagle]

Might try some of the "beagle tape" on the outside after degreasing the die. That should adher pretty well and block the holes./begale


Nick - I am going to use your 'Bandaid' method it sounds like it will work and probably work better then shot.

Thanks for the offer!

Drew

[fecmech]

Beagle--I had tried just the tape but pressure from the lube just punched a hole thru it thats why I used the aluminum from a pop can as it's thicker, aluminum flashing material would also work. Any metal that is thin enough to go into the sizer hole when you have it secured to the die will work. Nick

[versifier]

Wouldn't it just be easier (and cheaper) to use the Lee system with liquid alox? While they're not made in every possible size one could wish for, they have all the common ones. $12 each and they seat gas checks, too. No top punch to buy as they push from the bottom, so the nose profile is irrelevant. No heaters, no hassles, no holes to clog, no mess, and no wasted space on the bench. I suppose if you're one of those people who prefers to do it the hard way....

[Haywire Haywood]

I prefer not to roll my boolits in goop, stand them all upright on wax paper, let them dry overnight, size them, roll them in goop (again), stand them all up (again), and let them dry overnight(again). This is per the Lee instructions. Sounds like a 3 day process to lube/size your boolits.
I prefer to lube/size my boolits in one stroke, put them in a box and be done with it. Much easier.

Ian

[MGySgt]

I prefer not to roll my boolits in goop, stand them all upright on wax paper, let them dry overnight, size them, roll them in goop (again), stand them all up (again), and let them dry overnight(again). This is per the Lee instructions. Sounds like a 3 day process to lube/size your boolits.
I prefer to lube/size my boolits in one stroke, put them in a box and be done with it. Much easier.

Ian

What Haywire said.

I size and lube maybe 100, or 10 or 500 at a time. What ever I think I need.

Drew

[versifier]

We're all different, and the number of individual and innovative ways we find to get around similar problems is our greatest strength as Americans, and as human beings.
I put the cast bullets in a margarine container (100-200 at a time, depending on their size), swirl them until everything's coated, then spill them onto a sheet of aluminum foil. No goop on my hands. I don't bother standing them on end, but I do let them dry overnight. There is only one loading that barrel leading forces me to lube twice, so 95% of the time it's a one night overnight process. I generally have at least one, sometimes several, other projects going on at the same time, (glue or finishes drying on wood, waiting for parts, epoxy setting up out in the shop, or numerous writing projects at my desk) so it's no big deal for me to spend a few minutes on one thing and then switch to another. In fact, one often serves as a timely break from the other. The only operations around here that I see as start-to-finish don't-distract-me-on-pain -of-death are casting and the loading process. I usually will have casting sessions on four or five connsecutive days, and generally cast up to 1500 bullets in a session, often five or six different sizes and then work each batch up separately, so each becomes a small job to fit into my flow of things when time presents itself. I can see where if you were doing huge numbers of one or two sizes, or didn't work at home with the option to schedule as was convenient it might be easier to cast and then lube/size all in one big operation on your day off. Or, if I needed to produce bullets in an odd size it would be the only way to go, but I don't, and neither do most casters. On a budget, or with a half hour here an hour there in the evenings, I think it makes a lot more sense to spend the money on the kids, guns, and components than on overly complicated, expensive, and obviously frustrating tooling. I sold my old-fashioned heated lubri-sizer years ago when I was first introduced by a friend to the Lee system. I was VERY skeptical at first, too, but the fact is the accuracy was/is just as good, the leading was minimal, and I bought a great used rifle and two or three more Lee sizing kits to play with on the proceeds from the sale of sizing press, dies, top punches, and heater. As a old Yankee, I firmly believe in the "if it works, don't fix it" philosophy, but often it didn't work well, was messy, and frustrating to boot. There's a lot to be said for the K.I.S.S. philosophy, too. As long as we enjoy ourselves, I guess it really doesn't matter how we get there. Keep them on the paper!

[fecmech]

Versifier--The Lee system is a good one but sometimes other factors cause it to be not so good for ones particular style of loading and shooting.
I load on a progressive press and at any given time have approx 2000+ rds loaded for each caliber (9MM,.45acp,.38spl,.357mag) plus lesser amounts for .44spl and mag(about 600 each). I shoot 8-10k rds per year so I handle a lot of bullets and loaded rounds. Ammo is stored in heavy baggies approx 100rds each (boxes are out of the question) in ammo cans so I can grab a bag or 2 and shoot. I use a Star sizer and a Lyman 450 sizing with hard lubes.
The Lee system makes for sticky hands while loading and shooting and gets lube all over the cases in the bags and gunks up the guns more than the hard lubes. Also the hard lubes don't build up in my seat die anywhere near as bad as TL on my progrssive. I tried the Lee TL cause I thought it might save me some time but the negatives outweigh the positives for me. Nick

[versifier]

Fecmech, Thank you. Yes, I can see as buildup in the seating die would definitely cause some serious problems with a progressive. I prefer to use single stage presses, even to crank out 1000 rds of .30 carbine, 9mm, .357mag, .40S&W, or .45auto. (I'm stubborn in my own ways - I'd rather take a little extra time and be sure of every step, never really trusted anything more complicated than a turret press.) It is true, my seating dies DO require more cleaning now, and they get done at the same time as my fl sizers, or every 400-500 rds for the handgun dies. I still don't find that it gunks up my hands, the loaded ammo, or the guns, maybe it just doesn't get hot and/or humid enough up here to cause that kind of problem. The lube is hard enough after it sits overnight, not gooey. (Not as hard as what you use, but if I drop one on the floor, it doesn't pick up cat hair - I'd have to wipe down and relube a droppped rifle case before or after fl sizing). After a few days, it hardens even more, though some will still build up in the seating die as it's shaved off of each bullet. Rifle and Contender rounds (.30-30, .30 Herrett, .308, .30-06, .357 Herrett) for fall deer, bear, or moose hunting don't pick up much of any fuzzy buildup, even those in a jacket pocket, and never in a clip or a cartridge slide. I don't do any real hunting in the summer except for the occasional daytime woodchuck (.22-250, jacketed loads) or nighttime raccoon (#4 buck) that gets into someone's garden. My loaded ammo is stored in 50 & 100rd plastic boxes in an interior closet, but the cast bullets are stored before loading in the garage (where it gets hot enough I'd think) in small cardboard boxes that would hold one or three cans of beer. Neither get gunked up, even though I constantly reuse them. Would your bullets stay messy after a few days? A few weeks? Do you think it has to do with heat and/or humidity? :holysheep Dang, there I was ignorant and happy and now I want to figure it out. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[fecmech]

Versifier--The bullets do tend to dry after a few days but mine would still be slightly tacky to the touch maybe just from body heat as I usually hold 4 to 5 bullets in my hand while feeding my press. Also after setting the bullet on the case straight, due to the tackyness it will try to follow my finger when I remove it causing the bullet to tip on the case. The seat die will usually straighten things out but I would rather have it start straight. The same thing holds true when loading magazines for my 9mm and .45. On a nice summer day the ammo is warm and so are your hands, pretty soon after about 50 rds you've got lube on your hands, the grip of the gun etc. I can see where it would be less of a problem with rifles,singleshots, and maybe revolvers. Like I said befor I think the Lee system is a good one, it just does'nt work in my application. Nick

[versifier]

Fecmech, Are your storage bags sealed? Maybe that could inhibit the evaporation of the solvent? I just took a picture of a batch of rifle bullets that got a second coat Friday. It's probably mid 60's in the garage and the lube is hard. I couldn't wipe it off with a rag. I'll figure out how to post it and do so asap.

[versifier]

I think that should do it, but this is my first attempt at uploading a photo.

[Bret4207]

I use both methods. I find the Lee is great for long bore riders that seem to benefit from the liquid ear wax on the nose. It's also great for little, teeny boolits like the Soup Can that Ol'fumble fingers here sometimes has a problem with. I haven't found a leading problem with any Lee Liquid Frog Snot application, but I don't shoot high speed cast. 1700-1800 is really fast for me so far.The regular RCBS/Lyman sizers I have are great for sizing, although the fustration factor climbs when using them. Mine leak. They just do, and I live with it. They do a good job and they are a know factor, so I'll not get rid of them.

Using the Lee Frog Snot method I let them dry a while and then sprinkle a bit of Motor Mica or powdered Moly on them and roll them around. No more tacky/messy crap. My fingers do get graphited from handling them, but it washes off.

[BlueMoon]

I use both methods. I find the Lee is great for long bore riders that seem to benefit from the liquid ear wax on the nose. It's also great for little, teeny boolits like the Soup Can that Ol'fumble fingers here sometimes has a problem with. I haven't found a leading problem with any Lee Liquid Frog Snot application, but I don't shoot high speed cast. 1700-1800 is really fast for me so far.The regular RCBS/Lyman sizers I have are great for sizing, although the fustration factor climbs when using them. Mine leak. They just do, and I live with it. They do a good job and they are a know factor, so I'll not get rid of them.

Using the Lee Frog Snot method I let them dry a while and then sprinkle a bit of Motor Mica or powdered Moly on them and roll them around. No more tacky/messy crap. My fingers do get graphited from handling them, but it washes off.


I taken tumble-lubed boolits and sprinkled some mica on them and shook them up in another plastic dish with lid and it seemed to spread over all the boolits just fine.

Bill