Lead Alloy and Sizing for .45 AR

[One Gun Andy]

Hi Fellas,

I shoot a 1917 S&W with .45 AR cases. The chamber throats are uniform at .454 and the barrel is a recent production .45ACP at .451. I have been using wheel weights lead to cast various bullets sized .452 and .454, but I believe the combination could shoot better. My questions are, would it help to add a bit of hardness to the ww bullets, and what would you recommend as a proper sizing. Also, where do you get plain tin? None of the plumbing suppliers around here carry it.

Thank you very much for any information.

One Gun Andy

[mikeym1a]

Most of the new 'lead free' plumbers solder is mostly tin. At first, it had some antimony, but the EPA deemed that to be lead, do they went to a tin, copper, and something else mixture. Go back to the plumbers supply, and ask to see a roll of solder, and look at the contents. It will be tin. And be prepared for sticker shock. You can also look here on the site. Some of the members sell tin, others sell pewter, which is mostly tin. Or you could go to RotoMetals, and get tin from them. mikey

[Larry Gibson]

Add 2% tin to your COWWs and try them AC'd and WQ'd. I shot a lot of cast through numerous M1917 S&Ws over the years and find the 200 gr cast of the mentioned alloy or #2 alloy work most often. I've also found them sized at .452 to shoot the best in the .451 barrels. I would suspect the RCBS 45-230-CM would be an excellent bullet also. I've also found FB'd cast to shoot better than BB'd. My most often used load is a 190 - 205 gr cast over 5 gr Bullseye in my own current M1917/25 which is a nice M1917 that had been "bubba'd" by the addition of a higher front sight and the rear dovetailed for a M1911 rear sight. I replaced the rear sight with a much better Micro and put a M25 barrel on it making a very nice shooter.

Larry Gibson

107517

[SSGOldfart]

RotoMetals

[One Gun Andy]

Thanks to mikeym1a, Larry and SSGOidfart for your much-appreciated insights!

[Vulcan Bob]

I have shot a lot of straight COWW with a soft lube (SPG) with good results with the AR with little to no bore leading. Size em to the cylinder throat diameter. I buy my tin from RotoMetals for when I need a bit for good bullet fill out.

[MtGun44]

General rule of thumb with revolvers is size to throat diam. My 1937 (Brazilian 1917) responded
well to .454 diameter boolits. It also responded well to hotter loads, up to the point that I was
unwilling to go hotter (Keith's recommendation is 7.5 gr Unique - I would NOT load that! and
I do NOT recommend it) it shot better and closer to the sights as the loads increased.

Bill

[Mohillbilly]

My 2 1917 Smiths and my 2 1917 Colts all like .454 . I started low at 5.5 gr of Unique and worked up. you should find a " sweet " spot between 6 and 7 . I think my guns like 6.8

[Larry Gibson]

......... It also responded well to hotter loads, up to the point that I was
unwilling to go hotter (Keith's recommendation is 7.5 gr Unique - I would NOT load that! and
I do NOT recommend it) it shot better and closer to the sights as the loads increased.

Bill

Back in the day I shot lots of Keith's 7.5 gr Unique load under a 245 gr GC'd 452490 cast of COWWs + 2% tin and sized .452 in 45 AR cases. Most accurate load in the several M1917 Smiths and Colts along with a couple M25s I shot. Might have to cast some up to load in 45 ACP cases and pressure test them.......

Larry Gibson

[Dale53]

I no longer have any 1917 revolvers. However, my favorite revolver(s) is a pair of 625's. I mostly shoot AR cases but also use .45 ACP cases and clips when the spirit moves.

I have proper throats on my 625's and .452" bullets work exceptionally well. My most used bullet is a Mihec faithful copy of the H&G #68. I load a light target load of 4.0 grs of Bullseye or equivalent (currently Titegroup). I would size to throat size on the 1917's for best results.

I have an NOE five cavity mould for the 454424 Keith (250 grs with WW+2% tin). I size them to .452" and 7.0 grs of Unique chronographs at 900+ fps. IMO this load is really too hot for a 1917 (the cylinders were not heat treated and are a bit "tender").

If I had a 1917 (either Colt or Smith) I would stick to target load levels. Those fine old revolvers deserve a better fate than bulging a cylinder (or worse) by the use of heavy loads. Skeeter Skelton ruined a 1917 cylinder with heavy loads. Lee makes a 230 gr truncated cone bullet mould. That bullet with 4.0 or 4.5 grs of Bullseye should shoot to the sights and would be easy on the gun. It would also be an effective load with that nice flat meplat.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

[MtGun44]

No doubt that with my 1937 as I worked up in 0.5 grain increments from
5.0 gr Unique to 7.0 grains (which I fired 5 shots EVER and will not repeat unless
Larry shows that the pressures are lower than I think they are!) and each load
was tighter and closer to POA - mine was shooting about 6" left with 5 gr Unique,
and about 4-5" at 25 yds, IIRC. By the end it was ~1" left and about 2-2.5", going
from memory here. Once again, I think Elmer was right, BUT I think you are likely
risking damaging a nice old gun doing this load that he recommended. Never had
the guts to load 7.5 gr. These were all with .453 diam 452423 cast of wwt alloy,
air cooled, so about 12 BHN. I didn't have a mold that would throw any larger
at that time. Again, from memory, throats were .454 or .455, not sure. Certain
I could not get a boolit big enough to match throat diam at that time. Since have
gotten a custom MP 455423 that is NICE and helps a lot.

Bill